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I think its great reporters and PR people monitor these boards.

But to dad's point and the larger issue with the Meijer debacle: If you are a reporter or a PR person and you are posting seeking info for a story or representing a client, you should be identifying yourself as such.

I'll give you that on the PR side. Frankly, any reporter taking something off a largely-anonymous website and running with it without checking it out is a little frightening, but I am sure it happens.

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But tamias, I think you are comparing apples to oranges on this one. It was not your typical rezoning application. This Meijer/Acme war has been going on for probably 6 - 8 years (if I remember correctly), and it has been down and dirty at several junctures. We spend several weekends a summer up in the TC area and I can remember reading about this for as long as I can remember going up there (maybe 8 - 10 years when they first started talking about it?).

...

Huh? I think that was Veloise that brought up the Plainfield Twp./Spartan store angle. But yeah. I do agree that the Acme Twp. Meijer war has been a very long and nasty fight and definitely not your typical rezoning request. I caught wind of it in spring of 07. I thought about posting something about it back then but did not as I thought it would not get this big and ugly.

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Interesting. Just came across this Dec. 2 editorial from the TC RE. (http://www.record-eagle.com/opinion/local_story_336104506.html)

30 other cases in four states??

Meijer sued Kurtz, Acme Treasurer William Boltres and two trustees, claiming they had a conflict of interest because they were members of the Concerned Citizens group. While lawsuits are common in land-use disputes, these were different in that they targeted the four individually, making them personally liable for any potential damages. If they were to defend themselves, they had to pay their own lawyer; if they lost, their houses and all they owned were at risk.

It's a brutal tactic known in development circles as a SLAPP suit, an acronym for "strategic lawsuits against public participation," and it has one aim -- to intimidate legally elected citizens until they bow to a corporation's will. There's more to the story, however; information that should give pause to every community where Meijer wants to set up shop.

After initially denying that it had targeted other local officials in other development disputes, Meijer finally acknowledged the brutal truth -- the company has filed similar suits against 30 public officials in four states.

That's a sobering and scary number and leads immediately to questions -- how many zoning issues has Meijer settled via SLAPP suit intimidation? Has anyone lost his or her home or life savings? Who at Meijer has decided that this is an acceptable way of doing business.

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Just to make one point clear. I was playing devil's advocate. :) I'm sure heads will roll at Meijer because it is just plain stupid. But the role of the PR firm shouldn't be questioned too much. PR firms will go out and hype things, maybe even by deceiving the public a bit. Smoke and mirrors.

Joe

Plus, let's put ethics waaaay off to the side and accept your logic for a second. Even by lying and deceiving the public they STILL didn't succeed for thier client. At least Karl Rove won most of the battles he fought (!!)

Last thing: To your question, it wasn't a mole who gave the firm's billing records to the media, it was the attorney for the Township treasurer. The attorney and the Record-Eagle never tried to hide that fact, it was in several of the stories.

The attorney had received the documents as part of discovery in the personal lawsuit. Meijer tried to have a gag order issued to keep the documents from becoming public, but the judge refused.

Check it out: http://www.record-eagle.com/archivesearch/..._352094649.html

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Interesting. Just came across this Dec. 2 editorial from the TC RE. (http://www.record-eagle.com/opinion/local_story_336104506.html)

30 other cases in four states??

Meijer sued Kurtz, Acme Treasurer William Boltres and two trustees, claiming they had a conflict of interest because they were members of the Concerned Citizens group. While lawsuits are common in land-use disputes, these were different in that they targeted the four individually, making them personally liable for any potential damages. If they were to defend themselves, they had to pay their own lawyer; if they lost, their houses and all they owned were at risk.

It's a brutal tactic known in development circles as a SLAPP suit, an acronym for "strategic lawsuits against public participation," and it has one aim -- to intimidate legally elected citizens until they bow to a corporation's will. There's more to the story, however; information that should give pause to every community where Meijer wants to set up shop.

After initially denying that it had targeted other local officials in other development disputes, Meijer finally acknowledged the brutal truth -- the company has filed similar suits against 30 public officials in four states.

That's a sobering and scary number and leads immediately to questions -- how many zoning issues has Meijer settled via SLAPP suit intimidation? Has anyone lost his or her home or life savings? Who at Meijer has decided that this is an acceptable way of doing business.

As I said in a previous post, I think Meijer has yet to realize that the days of Proposing and Building Big Boxes being a simple open and shut case are over. Acme Twp. is not by any means the only community seeking to ether force Big Boxes to meet higher standards or curtail them outright. This back lash against Big Boxes really didn't come out in full force until the last 10-15 years. Walmart, Target and a few other Big Boxes who are only beginning to wake up to the fact that many people are fed up with what amounts to being single story warehouses in the middle of vast asphalt seas. How this applies to Meijer does not bode well.

Unlike Walmart who is currently diversifying in other smaller store formats that can get into communities were its supercenters cannot, Meijer placed all of its eggs in one Basket, its supercenter store format. I don't think Meijer is willing to diversify beyond its supercenter format as they are afraid that diverting company man power and resources to run other store formats would hinder its supercenters. If that is the case I can't blame them. A Meijer store will give a Walmart supercenter a run for its money hands down. Therefore the supercenter is Meijer's most powerful weapon in its bid to compete against Walmart and other Big Boxes.

But in light of increasing community resistance against the Big Box status quo, Meijer's asset maybe starting to become a liability. After spending a fortune on making over its stores and focusing its growth efforts solely on building new supercenters Meijer seems to be pretty much locked to that format. This means these SLAPP suits may be a sign that Meijer is grasping at straws to delay the inevitable need to adapt to changing times by creating alternative store formats that will be more palatable to comunities like Acme Twp. Maybe the Acme Twp. will become a wakeup call for Meijer to offer somthing other than its standard supercenter format.

On a personal note why not go back to its roots and debut a supermarket format? Being a grocer is Meijer's strongest suit and is really the primary reason why I shop at Meijer. The Alpine store and Meijer @ Cascade have grocery offerings that are second to none, IMO. I'd be very happy to shop at a Meijer supermarket that featured all the groceries of a regular Meijer, a pharmacy, and few household and GM offerings. I'm sure if one were to ask Acme Twp. folks why they would like to have a Meijer store, they'd answer "for the groceries".

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AOn a personal note why not go back to its roots and debut a supermarket format? Being a grocer is Meijer's strongest suit and is really the primary reason why I shop at Meijer. The Alpine store and Meijer @ Cascade have grocery offerings that are second to none, IMO. I'd be very happy to shop at a Meijer supermarket that featured all the groceries of a regular Meijer, a pharmacy, and few household and GM offerings.

I have cousin that's worked at Meijer headquarters for over 30 years. According to him, there's very little profit on the grocery side. They make up for that over on the other side. If Meijer hadn't done the "hypermarket' thing, they would have gone the way of Eberhard's by now. Fred and LV were contemporaries at one time. Fred gambled on the hypermarket, LV didn't. My brother-in-law owned a small grocery / meat market on Wealthy at the time Fred built the 28th / Kazoo store. My BIL loves to tell the story how he and Fred were at a trade show / meeting of some sort and Fred confided to him he had just borrowed a million to build that store and he could hardly sleep at night borrowing that much :P.

Edited by Raildudes dad
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I guess I understand how Meijer could never turn a profit just selling just groceries in a stand-alone building. But I also don't see why they needed a 1 million sq. ft. development in Acme (at least I think that's what it was). There has to be something in between that can still pencil.

If any business has grown to the point that it has to literally sue their way into a new market, you would think they would wake up and wonder about the sustainability of their model.

If this is really the only way they can compete, they are probably just delaying the inevitable sellout for a few more years -- the end is near for any retailer not named Wal-mart or Target. Though I hear if Meijer does sellout it would probably be to a European company first.

Edited by 201test
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I guess I understand how Meijer could never turn a profit just selling just groceries in a stand-alone building. But I also don't see why they needed a 1 million sq. ft. development in Acme (at least I think that's what it was). There has to be something in between that can still pencil.

If any business has grown to the point that it has to literally sue their way into a new market, you would think they would wake up and wonder about the sustainability of their model.

If this is really the only way they can compete, they are probably just delaying the inevitable sellout for a few more years -- the end is near for any retailer not named Wal-mart or Target. Though I hear if Meijer does sellout it would probably be to a European company first.

The proposed Acme store is about 223,000 sq. ft. accompanied by a 2000 odd sq. ft gas station. The remaining retail sq. footage is a part of a greater retail development to which Meijer was is to anchor.

As for the sustainability of their model, I'm wondering that too.

As for selling out, that bit is pure hearsay. Meijer has repeatedly made clear that it has no plans to sell the company.

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I know the rumors have always been proven false.

My point is that Wal-Mart seems to be able to succeed with new stand-alone stores not always surrounded by other retail/dining/etc. If Meijer cannot do the same in these new markets, something has to give.

And even then, a quarter of a million square feet just for a store and fueling site is substantial for any community to swallow.

Correct me if wrong, but I think 250K sq ft was about the TOTAL size of the rejected Plainfield/Family Fare project, including medical/office, restaurants and store.

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If I remember correctly at first they were going to be in the million sq. ft. retail center, then when that did not go through they went and proposed a store on a different piece of land that was across the street that was not part of the million sq. ft. retail center.

223,000 sq. ft. sounds rather large for a Meijer store. Currently the largest they are building are about 192,000 sq.ft. and before that they were building their stores at about 207,000 sq. ft.. I wonder if the square footage they are stating includes both the gas station and the outdoor part of the garden center?

Edited by Rybak 187
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If I remember correctly at first they were going to be in the million sq. ft. retail center, then when that did not go through they went and proposed a store on a different piece of land that was across the street that was not part of the million sq. ft. retail center.

223,000 sq. ft. sounds rather large for a Meijer store. Currently the largest they are building are about 192,000 sq.ft. and before that they were building their stores at about 207,000 sq. ft.. I wonder if the square footage they are stating includes both the gas station and the outdoor part of the garden center?

The planned large size of the Acme store is an anomaly. However it would only be the second Meijer store in that area. So Meijer may be thinking that the proposed Acme store would become just as busy as the Traverse City store.

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The paper didn't have her phone number??? Um, this story doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2007/12/pr_g...firm_in_me.html

And what's up with lecturing on crisis management? If she had followed the rules, there wouldn't be a crisis to manage in the first place. It's almost funny. Almost.

Whatever: To me the key part of this story is the comment by the Wal-Mart watchdog who notes that not even Wal-Mart uses these covert tactics any more. Let's hope Meijer takes something of value away from this mess.

In the meantime, seems like this could get worse before it gets better:

http://www.record-eagle.com/local/local_story_364094644.html

Edited by 201test
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The paper didn't have her phone number??? Um, this story doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2007/12/pr_g...firm_in_me.html

And what's up with lecturing on crisis management? If she had followed the rules, there wouldn't be a crisis to manage in the first place. It's almost funny. Almost.

Whatever: To me the key part of this story is the comment by the Wal-Mart watchdog who notes that not even Wal-Mart uses these covert tactics any more. Let's hope Meijer takes something of value away from this mess.

In the meantime, seems like this could get worse before it gets better:

http://www.record-eagle.com/local/local_story_364094644.html

I like the part about how she has a new phone and is hence unreachable....but her colleague was available.

Ethics shmethics. What about laws and ordinances, and not breaking same?? And hers is the biggest and best-known PR outfit in town?!? (By any chance did she have anything to do with KIAS???)

ETA: The retailer alleged township officials had a conflict of interest in deciding a land-use permit for a proposed Meijer store on M-72.

I want to know more about this "conflict of interest." A Wal-Mart gift card in their pockets? A Sierra Club calendar on their walls?

Edited by Veloise
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Sounds to me that Meijer needs to ditch that PR firm and hire somebody else. I wonder how feasible it would be for Meijer to temporarily halt plans for building new stores so they can restructure parts of the corporation responsible for developing new stores to enable it to better work with communities they plan to build new stores in?

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Sounds to me that Meijer needs to ditch that PR firm and hire somebody else. I wonder how feasible it would be for Meijer to temporarily halt plans for building new stores so they can restructure parts of the corporation responsible for developing new stores to enable it to better work with communities they plan to build new stores in?

Apparently the only thing Meijer did wrong was to not publicly disclose their involvement in the recall attempt. As a result they may have broken campaign finance laws.

From what I've read so far the PR firm did nothing illegal. PR firms often work on political campaigns. They are also often involved with large development projects. It isn't immoral, unethical or illegal. I've worked on shopping center projects where competing developers hired PR firms to discredit the proposed project. I've seen neighborhood groups get financed by competing interests to oppose a project. Evergreen collected signatures for a referendum against Aiken's lifestyle center on the East Beltline to protect his own project.

Meijer has a very long and reasonably successful history of working with communities and neighbors. Most approvals at that scale have opposition and Meijer has an established pattern of willingly spending money on design items that mitigate as many impacts as possible. They have built a lot of stores and I'll bet that all of them had opposition to overcome. It is the nature of the business. They do it much better than most.

I'm not sure how the current mess evolved, but I suspect Meijer will do whatever needs to be done to make it right. I can't see where the PR firm did anything wrong, but if they did I suspect they too will make corrections. Meijer is a great retailer and Seyferth Spaulding Tennyson is a great PR firm. They will both still be great companies when this story is over.

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Seyferth did nothing illegal...is this Mr. Rove or Mr. Cheney? Please think about the impact this has on developers, elected officials and legitimate community activism -- both pro and anti-development.

The next time a community's residents get a mailing or see a letter to the editor about a new development anywhere in West Michigan, they will wonder who is really driving it, who is really paying for it, and they will be that much more likely to dismiss even sincere opinions as "bought and paid for". The next time someone stands up behind a mic at a township meeting or GR City Hall night out session to voice an opinion, some will wonder if the person speaking is real or simply part of pricey window dressing for $300/hr.

That doubt going forward is the problem. That's why the PR profession bans this kind of behavior. Common sense and any qualms about right and wrong would also seem to go against it.

Whether they are great, mediocre or lousy in other settings, doesn't really matter. If Meijer and Seyferth have caused people to doubt the credibility of public communications around planning and zoning reviews in the future, this isn't just a little mistake.

This isn't like circulating petitions, encouraging proponents to send letters to the editor or giving supporters directions to a public meeting. Yes, other real estate developers and companies do these things and more to rally support and fight the opposition. But if they actually went so far as to create a straw group to secretly slime elected officials during a recall, that is a whole different ballpark and a potential felony.

It sounds like the attorney general and others will have more to say on this before it's through. Meijer has at least acknowledged there was a problem, but so far Seyferth is acting like the only thing they did wrong was get caught. That isn't helping their cause.

Edited by 201test
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Hey, as long as there was no waterboarding involved ("legal" though it may be).

Seyferth was recognized by the GRBJ this week in its yearly review of saints and sinners.

They were identified as, um, less than saintly:

Seyferth, Spaulding, Tennyson. Why did the PR firm leave its ethics behind when it jumped into politics on behalf of Meijer Inc. in Acme Township? As the crisis management adage goes,

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Amen Civitas. And Where have you been? ;)

I think the issue people have such an issue with is what is ethical, illegal, immoral or just business. As I stated earlier, PR firms are in business to put their clients in a positive light. Of course, it didn't come out that way for SST, but look att SST's website. They state right on their website that one of their services is Government Affairs and Public Relations:

http://www.seyferthpr.com/pages/ourservice...mentaffairs.htm

A large part of a PR firms job is to spin. Just like politicians do. Product announcements, crisis management, corporate earnings reports. They all need to be spun to make the company appear larger than life.

I've also said before that we get spun here all the time. 201test, this *is not* a dig but just and example; the vigor with which you fight against Meijer could easily be done by a PR agency (you don't work for Target do you? :). If I were Walmarts PR agency, I would be on every community forum slamming the unethical ways of Meijer. It is a tactical advantage in a dog-eat-dog world.

I think until more facts become available, we should stop building the fire to burn Hank Meijer from. All of the good, bad and ugly will come up, and until we have facts it is nothing more than negative spin. ;)

Joe

Apparently the only thing Meijer did wrong was to not publicly disclose their involvement in the recall attempt. As a result they may have broken campaign finance laws.

From what I've read so far the PR firm did nothing illegal. PR firms often work on political campaigns. They are also often involved with large development projects. It isn't immoral, unethical or illegal. I've worked on shopping center projects where competing developers hired PR firms to discredit the proposed project. I've seen neighborhood groups get financed by competing interests to oppose a project. Evergreen collected signatures for a referendum against Aiken's lifestyle center on the East Beltline to protect his own project.

Meijer has a very long and reasonably successful history of working with communities and neighbors. Most approvals at that scale have opposition and Meijer has an established pattern of willingly spending money on design items that mitigate as many impacts as possible. They have built a lot of stores and I'll bet that all of them had opposition to overcome. It is the nature of the business. They do it much better than most.

I'm not sure how the current mess evolved, but I suspect Meijer will do whatever needs to be done to make it right. I can't see where the PR firm did anything wrong, but if they did I suspect they too will make corrections. Meijer is a great retailer and Seyferth Spaulding Tennyson is a great PR firm. They will both still be great companies when this story is over.

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Amen Civitas. And Where have you been? ;)

I think the issue people have such an issue with is what is ethical, illegal, immoral or just business. As I stated earlier, PR firms are in business to put their clients in a positive light. Of course, it didn't come out that way for SST, but look att SST's website. They state right on their website that one of their services is Government Affairs and Public Relations:

http://www.seyferthpr.com/pages/ourservice...mentaffairs.htm

A large part of a PR firms job is to spin. Just like politicians do. Product announcements, crisis management, corporate earnings reports. They all need to be spun to make the company appear larger than life.

I've also said before that we get spun here all the time. 201test, this *is not* a dig but just and example; the vigor with which you fight against Meijer could easily be done by a PR agency (you don't work for Target do you? :). If I were Walmarts PR agency, I would be on every community forum slamming the unethical ways of Meijer. It is a tactical advantage in a dog-eat-dog world.

I think until more facts become available, we should stop building the fire to burn Hank Meijer from. All of the good, bad and ugly will come up, and until we have facts it is nothing more than negative spin. ;)

Joe

I agree with 201test. This is more than spin. I've been involved in "spin" campaigns before and this was beyond that. I never made up customer testimonials from people that didn't exist. I never made up things that weren't true about my competition. I never wanted my competition go down in flames (what's the fun in that?). We wanted to win fair and square, and yes, sometimes by making our team look better than it really was.

Yes, several developers in this area are notorious for doing it civitas, and pretty much everyone knows who the worst ones are. Is it any wonder that some of them have a hard time getting projects off the ground or getting people to buy into their product.

As far as Meijer goes, we haven't changed our buying habits (we still shop at Meijer), and I believe that Meijer will make things right even if it means throwing a few bodies out the door. Whether the top brass really knew about this or not, we may never know.

There was an article about Ginny Seyferth in the paper yesterday. She was unavailable for comment for a week while her client was going down in flames, and she blames it on being on vacation and having a new cell phone number???!!! Gee, can I sign them up to represent me?

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss....xml&coll=6

BTW: I like having PR and media people contribute here. And I certainly don't mind if the media mines the site for ideas for stories. In fact, I hope that issues brought up here do get echoed in the more MSM so that voices can be heard and perhaps changes can be made. We certainly heavily rely on MSM for discussion topics.

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The thing I will definitely agree with on this is the fact that SST has done a terrible job with their own crisis management. One of my co-workers worked at SST and I've been giving him a good ribbing about where he cut his teeth. To say that the Press didn't have her new cell phone number is like saying my dog ate my homework. :)

I think one of the most interesting things to come out of the whole Meijer debacle is the fact that the maximum penalty for corporations mixing business with politics is $10,000. That is such a slap on the hand, but you never want to bite the hand that feeds. ;)

Joe

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...BTW: I like having PR and media people contribute here. And I certainly don't mind if the media mines the site for ideas for stories. In fact, I hope that issues brought up here do get echoed in the more MSM so that voices can be heard and perhaps changes can be made. We certainly heavily rely on MSM for discussion topics.

[waves at the Record-Eagle guy I invited]

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Joe, I like Meijer. A whole bunch. I'm a shopper and a fan.

I know for a fact that Hank is actually one of the sharpest people in West Michigan. I cannot speak for Mark Murray, but I have no reason to doubt his abilities given all he did for GVSU.

I am with Dad and I think what Seyferth did crossed the line, but won't beat that pinata any further.

Biggest real-world concerns: 1) the chilling effect fake campaigns have on community involvement in zoning and planning 2) how this makes West Michigan look to the rest of the state and region. This just reinforces some of the worst false stereotypes of this side of the state.

Last requests and only agenda: I hope the state, the TC and GR media and others push Meijer to make the full report from the independent counsel public. Otherwise nothing will have changed.

Edited by 201test
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