South Carolina's population growth

[GvilleSC]

What I find interesting is that Greenville County was essentially on par with Charleston County for 2015/2016 and has held fairly stead since. I'm surprised that Richland isn't capturing more of its metropolitan growth. Has the Northeast cooled off?

Meanwhile, Spartanburg has really trended upward. Does anyone have insight into this? Is it Greenville's spilling over on the western part of the county, or what is driving Spartanburg's growth? If Greenville is driving the growth, we may not see Spartanburg hold on to its separate MSA designation for long. Granted, I like them broken out as two separate areas for more equal comparison purposes. Just curious on everyone's thoughts. 

[CLT_sc]

22 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

What I find interesting is that Greenville County was essentially on par with Charleston County for 2015/2016 and has held fairly stead since. I'm surprised that Richland isn't capturing more of its metropolitan growth. Has the Northeast cooled off?

Meanwhile, Spartanburg has really trended upward. Does anyone have insight into this? Is it Greenville's spilling over on the western part of the county, or what is driving Spartanburg's growth? If Greenville is driving the growth, we may not see Spartanburg hold on to its separate MSA designation for long. Granted, I like them broken out as two separate areas for more equal comparison purposes. Just curious on everyone's thoughts. 

Spartanburg is growing for a few reasons...expansion at BMW, retirees, good schools is districts 5,6,&7 and an option to Greenville Co as housing becomes more expensive over there. East Spartanburg is seeing good housing price gains as the new Spartanburg High finishes construction.

Spartanburg’s downtown also has been developing nicely and seems to have a cool Asheville “light” vibe.  Hwy 9 is seeing a lot of housing development.

Spartanburg as a metro has been trending up in population growth year over year for the past few years while metro Greenville has cooled a bit.  2018 growth compared to 2015  is down in metro Greenville by 12.5%  while Spartanburg is trending up at over 100% comparing 2018 to 2015.

Cola’s growth is spread between the two counties as they touch at the city of Cola line downtown.  There is a lot of development across the river which should intensify and help drive Lexington’s growth.

From a metro level, Myrtle Beach, Charleston, Charlotte and Beaufort/HHi continue to grow at a rate above 15% since 2010.  Columbia, Greenville and Spartanburg are still close to 10%, just not there yet.

since 2015, Spartanburg has grown over 5% which puts it in line with Charleston, Charlotte, and Beaufort.  Myrtle Beach is off the charts at 11.5%.

 

[distortedlogic]

2 hours ago, GvilleSC said:

What I find interesting is that Greenville County was essentially on par with Charleston County for 2015/2016 and has held fairly stead since. I'm surprised that Richland isn't capturing more of its metropolitan growth. Has the Northeast cooled off?

Meanwhile, Spartanburg has really trended upward. Does anyone have insight into this? Is it Greenville's spilling over on the western part of the county, or what is driving Spartanburg's growth? If Greenville is driving the growth, we may not see Spartanburg hold on to its separate MSA designation for long. Granted, I like them broken out as two separate areas for more equal comparison purposes. Just curious on everyone's thoughts. 

Admittedly, I don't know as much about Spatanburg, but I would imagine a good bit of it's growth is related to Greenville and especially Greer. The GSP/HWY14/101 area is gowing like crazy and that whole area straddles the county line. Other parts of Sptbg sem to be doing pretty well also, especially downtown, but not sure how much population growth  the city proper is seeing. I do think the two counties will eventually become one MSA again but who knows when. I just think there is too much growth going on between the neighboring counties for it not to happen - maybe by 2030? 

For growth, I like to use raw numbers most of the time. While percentages are a useful tool , they're kind of a sliding scale number and don't tell the whole story. I think percentages give an idea of the impact the population growth is likely to have on an entire area (the area needs "x" to keep up with the growth rate) but we deal with raw numbers as we drive on roads, shop in stores, buy and sell houses,  etc. So we plan using percentages but experience raw numbers; at least that's is how it makes sense to me. 

Since 2010 here are the cumulative county gains in raw numbers:

Horry - 75,021

Greenville - 63,029

Charleston - 55,755

York - 48,072

Berkeley - 42,775

Lexington - 32,603

Richland - 30,126

Spartanburg - 29,571

Beaufort - 26,484

Dorchester - 24,474

Lancaster - 18,727

Anderson - 13,539

 

As I've always said, I don't want to see the upstate ever become a mega growth (boomtown) area, but the three counties of Anderson, Greenville, and Spartanburg have added about 106k since 2010. That's certainly not on a "boomtown" level, but it's a pretty significant gain for SC standards, and second only to the Chalreston, Berkely, Dorchester tri-county area which added roughly 123k. I do think it's funny to hear Charleston growth routinely referred to as "explosive" while the upstate growth is referred to as "steady or moderate" yet the total raw numbers are only about 17k in difference. Same with MYB's growth described as "booming" yet Horry County has only Greenville by a total of 12K in an 8 year period. Doesn't really matter, all 3 areas are growing strongly and I would be happy to let other areas have explosive growth and letthe upstate just have a slow steady growth, but it is what it is. 

[erm1981]

 I live here (Charleston Metro) and I can tell you that I've never seen the level of grow anywhere in South Carolina that the Charleston area has been experiencing since around 2014.   I'm not being biased here either.  I grew up in Anderson and moved here in 2010.  I think we will keep seeing the Charleston metro area accelerate in growth which is crazy because the road infastructure in my mind lags behind Columbia and Greenville.  Certain parts of 526 need to be 6 lanes all the way. 

I always love driving around Greenville when I visit and find the lack of traffic amazing......lol.  (I remember all the talk about how bad woodruff road was when I lived up there).  Its like that on every road here.

Charleston needs a better plan to handle the traffic.   There have been no major road widening projects in a couple of years and not much talk of mass transit. 

It's to the point that people that actually live here dont want anymore people moving in.  Mount Pleasant cut back on the amount of building permits they were issuing because they have almost reached buildout.

The reason Berkely county is growing so much more than Charleston or Dorchester Counties is fueled by Volvo/Mercedes expansion and tons of other large manufacturing facilities opening up in the area.  There is an entire new St. Francis hospital being built near Cane Bay off 17a in Berk County.  Nexton is also another massive development.  Those two alone are probably equall to two Verdae size developments in a relatively small area.  

So I've lived in both places.  Greenville for 28 years and Charleston for 10 now.  I think I can be a good judge of both places and how each has progressed.  Heck I love downtown Greenville and miss the Upstate.  I drive through there every couple months to see the progress downtown.   Might get back up that way someday when I finally get tired of the traffic here!

[distortedlogic]

1 hour ago, erm1981 said:

 I live here (Charleston Metro) and I can tell you that I've never seen the level of grow anywhere in South Carolina that the Charleston area has been experiencing since around 2014.   I'm not being biased here either.  I grew up in Anderson and moved here in 2010.  I think we will keep seeing the Charleston metro area accelerate in growth which is crazy because the road infastructure in my mind lags behind Columbia and Greenville.  Certain parts of 526 need to be 6 lanes all the way. 

I always love driving around Greenville when I visit and find the lack of traffic amazing......lol.  (I remember all the talk about how bad woodruff road was when I lived up there).  Its like that on every road here.

Charleston needs a better plan to handle the traffic.   There have been no major road widening projects in a couple of years and not much talk of mass transit. 

It's to the point that people that actually live here dont want anymore people moving in.  Mount Pleasant cut back on the amount of building permits they were issuing because they have almost reached buildout.

The reason Berkely county is growing so much more than Charleston or Dorchester Counties is fueled by Volvo/Mercedes expansion and tons of other large manufacturing facilities opening up in the area.  There is an entire new St. Francis hospital being built near Cane Bay off 17a in Berk County.  Nexton is also another massive development.  Those two alone are probably equall to two Verdae size developments in a relatively small area. 

So I've lived in both places.  Greenville for 28 years and Charleston for 10 now.  I think I can be a good judge of both places and how each has progressed.  Heck I love downtown Greenville and miss the Upstate.  I drive through there every couple months to see the progress downtown.   Might get back up that way someday when I finally get tired of the traffic here!

Good input. It does indeed seem like Charleston and Columbia have worse traffic to me when I'm there, despite the higher population of Greenville county. May partially be due to my being less familiar with the areas, but their metros seem to be more dense, I guess because Spartanburg and Anderson are strong cities in their own right and spread out the CSA population. Of course one day the upstate will be endless sprawl and won't be any fun to navigate at all. Yep, I'll take a slower growth rate please!

[vicupstate]

I grew up and have lived in SC my whole life.  From the 70's until about 2000 or 2005, the three major cities were very comaprable in terms of population, population growth, auto traffic congestion, air traffic, etc.  That started to change into where Charleston is growing much faster, getting more expensive.  Auto and air traffic is now at a significantly higher level than the other two.  I travel to Charleston 2-3 times a year and the traffic is really, really bad. Rental housing costs are about $200 a month higher than Greenville. 

The geography of Charleston is a big factor, as you have to cross a bridge to move from one part of the metro to another. That creates chokepoints that are bad enough on their own, but get even worse when a wreck or bridge repair issue arises.  Columbia has the same  river issue but to a lessor degree, but Malfunction Junction is big issue there. Greenville just doesn't have a comparable intersection  (I-385/I-85 being the closest thing to MJ).   No big rivers to cross  in the Greenville is the biggest biggest difference though.     

In the last 50 years there hasn't been a lot of road contruction but what construction there has been has been skewed very heavily towards Charleston. I remember when there was no 526 nor  James Island  Connector, nor Isle of Palm Connector, etc. Neither Columbia nor Greenville have had anywhere close to that level of highway consttruction in that period, especially Greenville.  

[motonenterprises]

13 hours ago, erm1981 said:

 I live here (Charleston Metro) and I can tell you that I've never seen the level of grow anywhere in South Carolina that the Charleston area has been experiencing since around 2014.   I'm not being biased here either.  I grew up in Anderson and moved here in 2010.  I think we will keep seeing the Charleston metro area accelerate in growth which is crazy because the road infastructure in my mind lags behind Columbia and Greenville.  Certain parts of 526 need to be 6 lanes all the way. 

I always love driving around Greenville when I visit and find the lack of traffic amazing......lol.  (I remember all the talk about how bad woodruff road was when I lived up there).  Its like that on every road here.

Charleston needs a better plan to handle the traffic.   There have been no major road widening projects in a couple of years and not much talk of mass transit. 

It's to the point that people that actually live here dont want anymore people moving in.  Mount Pleasant cut back on the amount of building permits they were issuing because they have almost reached buildout.

The reason Berkely county is growing so much more than Charleston or Dorchester Counties is fueled by Volvo/Mercedes expansion and tons of other large manufacturing facilities opening up in the area.  There is an entire new St. Francis hospital being built near Cane Bay off 17a in Berk County.  Nexton is also another massive development.  Those two alone are probably equall to two Verdae size developments in a relatively small area.  

So I've lived in both places.  Greenville for 28 years and Charleston for 10 now.  I think I can be a good judge of both places and how each has progressed.  Heck I love downtown Greenville and miss the Upstate.  I drive through there every couple months to see the progress downtown.   Might get back up that way someday when I finally get tired of the traffic here!

Hmm. Lack of traffic in Greenville? What days are you here? 85 is a mess during the week. Despite what some believe about Charleston versus other cities in the state. Greenville has still added more people over the last decade while already being the most populated county. Charleston actually slowed in the last estimate with even Spartanburg adding more people to it's county population. I look at Google traffic maps every evening to look at traffic between the biggest 3 areas. It generally shows Greenville with more congestion. Go figure. It's subjective other than that. But on any level, Charleston even though it's more known worldwide because of its history and tourism. It's actually not the only place growing.

[vicupstate]

1. 85 is under construction, so that isn't standard conditions. 

2. you have to look at the growth in the whole metro with Charelston because it is three counties not just Charleston.  

3. Traffic North of I-85 is pretty good almost all of the time.  

4. With the exception of I-85 since the construction started, I never am at a standstill.  That is an everyday occurance when I drive in Charleston. 

    

[motonenterprises]

13 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

1. 85 is under construction, so that isn't standard conditions. 

2. you have to look at the growth in the whole metro with Charelston because it is three counties not just Charleston.  

3. Traffic North of I-85 is pretty good almost all of the time.  

4. With the exception of I-85 since the construction started, I never am at a standstill.  That is an everyday occurance when I drive in Charleston. 

    

No lanes have closed in Greenville for the construction. It has added people because of growth and travel between Atlanta and Charlotte along with other places. I'm sure 85 has a higher daily traffic count.

Greenville MSA also consist of more than one county and is bigger already. I'll go back and look at the raw number since 2010 and come back here.

Traffic north of Greenville on 85 may be decent, but not in Greenville. I use that thing daily. It's always crawling in the evening and even at some other times.

You may not be at a standstill daily, but I am in one daily in Greenville. That's fact for me.

Again. That's not the only place growing. It may be limited on roads.

[motonenterprises]

Okay. So here is what I see. 906k+ for Greenville MSA. That's without Spartanburg which is still currently it's own MSA. Charleston MSA is 787k+. It added more for a little while and then cooled off. The Greenville MSA has stayed steady with it's growth. The traffic thing is subjective.

[CLT_sc]

85 is bad because of traffic flowing between Atlanta and Charlotte.  Columbia traffic is bad because of the terrible MJ design....that has to be in the top 5 of bad southern interchanges.  26 between Cola and Charleston is the only place in S.C. where it comes to a stop because of volume.  There should be at least 6 lanes from Cola to Charleston.

That being said, the state needs to stop heralding low gas taxes and improve the roads.

As for growth, not sure why it comes back to raw numbers.  The rate of growth is typically measured as a percent to normalize size disparities in population. Raw numbers help if you are looking at trade areas, but they do give false positives.  Even the composition of metros can provide misleading numbers.  So, it is always important to look at more than raw data.

All of the metros in S.C. are growing, some have just accelerated more than others.  Charleston, Myrtle Beach, & Charlotte have been the leaders in SC growth.  I expect to see the Charlotte counties grow even faster as some of the more significant developments in S.C. are occurring in that area.  The new Panthers’  facility will be a facilitator of growth and change Rock Hill even more.

It remains to be seen if the other growth areas lead the way into the future or if other metros rise.  Politically,  Greenville is in a  good spot because it is the center of conservative politics in SC.  And, SC tends to be a conservative state. Charleston will continue to build off of recent developments and their expansions.  MYB is still reeling in jersey transplants.  Columbia has a great base in the university, government  and a cluster of good corporate citizens to build from. Spartanburg should see growth continue.  And, Charlotte is just on a roll and will likely be on one for a long time  due to many factors like the ability to attract talent and one of the nations’s busiest (and growing) airports. 

[vicupstate]

1 hour ago, motonenterprises said:

Okay. So here is what I see. 906k+ for Greenville MSA. That's without Spartanburg which is still currently it's own MSA. Charleston MSA is 787k+. It added more for a little while and then cooled off. The Greenville MSA has stayed steady with it's growth. The traffic thing is subjective.

The Greenville MSA includes Anderson County which except for Powdersville/Piedmont really isn't part of the  Greenville UA (Urban Area). Looking strictly at UA it is 400k for Greenville and 548k for Charleston.   

[motonenterprises]

7 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

The Greenville MSA includes Anderson County which except for Powdersville/Piedmont really isn't part of the  Greenville UA (Urban Area). Looking strictly at UA it is 400k for Greenville and 548k for Charleston.   

Which doesn't include Mauldin and Simpsonville which are clearly Greenville's burbs. Add another 120k. Greenville is larger than people think. I'm not sure how they designated it as it's own urban area. It runs contiguous with Greenville. No rural in between. So even that doesn't tell the whole story.

Edited April 25, 2019 by motonenterprises

[motonenterprises]

Also. Those are 2010 UA numbers.

[CLT_sc]

So, here is a question....

why is it so important for Greenville to be recognized as the largest metro, fastest growing metro, largest UA, largest county and busiest roads. Etc....   The only place you see things written like that are either on these boards or from Greenville cheerleaders.  

Phraes like “the most significant projects in S.C. are happening in Greenville,l” are posted on boards like this, I think that was written by Gvillesc.

no doubt Greenville is growing and important in S.C., but the math is just not there to justify those comments. And comments like Gville’s are just wrong on many fronts.

And, don’t even mention that tax credits have been used to build a ton of stuff in Greenville.  That’s a big sore subject.

[motonenterprises]

13 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

So, here is a question....

why is it so important for Greenville to be recognized as the largest metro, fastest growing metro, largest UA, largest county and busiest roads. Etc....   The only place you see things written like that are either on these boards or from Greenville cheerleaders.  

Phraes like “the most significant projects in S.C. are happening in Greenville,l” are posted on boards like this, I think that was written by Gvillesc.

no doubt Greenville is growing and important in S.C., but the math is just not there to justify those comments. And comments like Gville’s are just wrong on many fronts.

And, don’t even mention that tax credits have been used to build a ton of stuff in Greenville.  That’s a big sore subject.

Well don't read it. Like I'm about to do your stuff again GSP. You don't like my stuff and I don't really care for yours either. Just ignore it and say nothing.

Edited April 25, 2019 by motonenterprises

[CLT_sc]

5 minutes ago, motonenterprises said:

Well don't read it. Like I'm about to do your stuff again GSP. You don't like my stuff and I don't really care for yours either. Just ignore it and say nothing.

It’s not you specifically, but It is an honest question.  I don’t understand why you see so much discussion about who is growing the fastest and who is the largest when the math gives you the answers.   Greenville promotes itself across the board as leading S.C. and the business center of S.C. which is not really true. It is an important city, but still a part of S.C., not S.C.

on here, there are arguments about what metrics to use so Greenville looks like the fastest growing area.   The question is why?

the numbers are fairly clear to read and it’s not like Greenville is not growing.  Distorted even said he does not want Greenville to grow fast like Charlotte.  So, it becomes a schizophrenia like argument.   

[GvilleSC]

1 hour ago, CLT_sc said:

Phraes like “the most significant projects in S.C. are happening in Greenville,l” are posted on boards like this, I think that was written by Gvillesc.

no doubt Greenville is growing and important in S.C., but the math is just not there to justify those comments. And comments like Gville’s are just wrong on many fronts.

First of all, what you're attributing to me, is NOT what was posted. Secondly, it makes no sense that you're purposefully going about stalking this forum with the intention of being offended. If you'd like to discuss the dynamic projects happening in Greenville, this isn't the thread for it. I'd suggest a new hobby. 

[motonenterprises]

15 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

First of all, what you're attributing to me, is NOT what was posted. Secondly, it makes no sense that you're purposefully going about stalking this forum with the intention of being offended. If you'd like to discuss the dynamic projects happening in Greenville, this isn't the thread for it. I'd suggest a new hobby. 

Just block the guy like I did. He should block us too since he doesn't like Greenville or our posts. You don't see any of us going to forums talking about cities we don't like. This is a different behavior. People generally talk about things they do like and flock to those forums.

Edited April 25, 2019 by motonenterprises

[distortedlogic]

3 hours ago, CLT_sc said:

85 is bad because of traffic flowing between Atlanta and Charlotte.  Correct. It's also bad because of travel anywhere between DC and Montgomery. I think the nearly 1.5 MM residents of the upstate also have a little something to do with that as well.   26 between Cola and Charleston is the only place in S.C. where it comes to a stop because of volume.  85 at Pelham backs up daily, at least during PM rush; I'm sure CHS has a few back up spots too.  There should be at least 6 lanes from Cola to Charleston. No doubt. 

As for growth, not sure why it comes back to raw numbers.  Because it shows how many people are moving to an area. The rate of growth is typically measured as a percent to normalize size disparities in population.  Fair enough, but that number changes as population changes.

All of the metros in S.C. are growing, some have just accelerated more than others.  Charleston, Myrtle Beach, & Charlotte have been the leaders in SC growth. True, but unless you're tyring to make a certain point, the Greenville metro has grown by the second most in total numbers, so no reason to leave it off the list;  just using the facts.  

It remains to be seen if the other growth areas lead the way into the future or if other metros rise.  Politically,  Greenville is in a  good spot because it is the center of conservative politics in SC.  And, SC tends to be a conservative state. Charleston will continue to build off of recent developments and their expansions.  MYB is still reeling in jersey transplants.  Columbia has a great base in the university, government  and a cluster of good corporate citizens to build from. Spartanburg should see growth continue.  And, Charlotte is just on a roll and will likely be on one for a long time  due to many factors like the ability to attract talent and one of the nations’s busiest (and growing) airports.  Fairpoints about SC metros, but why bring in CLT here, CLT is not in SC, nor is it's airport? I think this is why your audience here runs short - too much CLT boosterism in SC/Greenville forums. 

 

[distortedlogic]

2 hours ago, CLT_sc said:

 I don’t understand why you see so much discussion about who is growing the fastest and who is the largest when the math gives you the answers.  In that case, using numbers and math , Greenville and the Upstate is the largest area of the state (not that it matters to me). County, MSA, CSA all point to Greenville and the Upstate as being the largest. UA and city limits; no. All metrics have their issues and limitations.  Besides, these boards are stuffed with threads about fastest, tallest, most, and countless other superlatives. Greenville has no monopoly on that. And ironically, you do that with CLT when it comes to SC and SC cities. Greenville promotes itself across the board as leading S.C. and the business center of S.C. which is not really true. It is an important city, but still a part of S.C., not S.C. on here, there are arguments about what metrics to use so Greenville looks like the fastest growing area.   The question is why? Why does this bother you so much? Every insurance company bills themself as the cheapest, every brand of refirgerator says the're the best, every city boasts they are historic, modern, and the center of... something... Human nature. Besides, in this case, Greenville and the Upstate has as good a claim as any area of the state. 

 

 

[CLT_sc]

2 minutes ago, distortedlogic said:

 

This is a S.C. forum,  metro CLT is part of S.C. AND included in analysis of the metros issued by most economist.  Not sure why it would be excluded, that makes no sense when a growing population in S.C. has strong ties to CLT.

For Greenville, no not all cities have the sort of self promotion that Greenville does. Seeing people debate the idea of who is growing fastest because of what ever metric they come up with.....is just silly.  And, the upstate in general seems to have an endless supply of metro population.  You always see Greenville promoting its population as a metro of 1.5mm.  And, I get the math, but if Greenville distorts the definitions to appear larger, why can’t Columbia claim everything between 85 and 95 as metro Cola. At some point, you have to stay within the defined parameters.

Population is the easiest metric, not sure why it is complicated.  Looking at tax credits and how they overstate a cities growth gets much trickier.

[distortedlogic]

17 hours ago, CLT_sc said:

This is a S.C. forum,  metro CLT is part of S.C. AND included in analysis of the metros issued by most economist.  Not sure why it would be excluded, that makes no sense when a growing population in S.C. has strong ties to CLT.  To include it is fine. To repeatedly work CLT into every discussion about SC and the Upstate and "cheerlead" for it in a SC forum is...well.. obnoxious.

For Greenville, no not all cities have the sort of self promotion that Greenville does.  Couldn't disagree more. All cities do it. Maybe Greenville does it more than some, or better than some. CLT does it as well and as much as any city in the country, as does Raleigh. Charleston is a master of it as well. And again, why does this bother you so much? Seeing people debate the idea of who is growing fastest because of what ever metric they come up with.....is just silly. Then stop doing it.  And, the upstate in general seems to have an endless supply of metro population.  You always see Greenville promoting its population as a metro of 1.5mm. Actually it says it's in the center of a 1.5MM CSA region, which is factual.  And, I get the math, then stop arguing it but if Greenville distorts the definitions to appear larger, why can’t Columbia claim everything between 85 and 95 as metro Cola. At some point, you have to stay within the defined parameters. Which we've all done.

I'm willing to give you a chance in the forum; it's been what, a couple of years since you were last banned? But your song and dance is the same. If you want to paticipate in the SC and Greenville forums that's fine. I only ask that you stop arguing every positive thing a poster puts about their own home state or city. Stop discrediting every positive headline, deveolpment, or advancement by coming up with a reason it's not valid, it's not really good news, or why CLT or NC is really responsible for it. Stop calling people out for "cheerleading" their hometown while constantly cheerleading for your own city, WHICH ISN'T EVEN IN THIS STATE. Stop complaning or degrading Greenville for using tax financing credits for some developments, when many other cities do the same, and your own city greatly benefited from massive bank bailouts. If you truly have a beef with Greenville then so be it, don't waste your time on here. If you're willing to judge Greenville for it's own merits then come on over and take an unbiased look around. If you can't be impressed with the gains it's made over the past few years (having nothing to do with CLT by the way), then I'm not sure how to reach you. What downtown and other areas have done since the recession are pretty impressive for little Greenville if you give it a fair appraisal. We all know there are challenges and significant shortcomings; where is that not true? If you can be respectful as a guest in this forum, then we're happy to have you. If not, perhaps try participating in the CLT and NC forums instead. 

 

[motonenterprises]

1 hour ago, distortedlogic said:

 

There is no way to reach this poster. You just have to block, ignore, and wait. Different mindset. Most don't take this much energy trying to discredit a place they don't live in or like. They just say nothing and don't visit it or any forum talking about it. How many posts does the poster have in the Charlotte forum? Hardly any. This is a personal thing towards the area and it's posters.

[CLT_sc]

Distorted.....Sure, 1.5mm is the population of the entire upstate.  Comparing that with other metro designations is wrong.  If you break up the state into mega Regions  like that, each 1/3 is about 1.5mm.  Not a meaningful statistic unless you are just trying to throw up a big #.  In addition, the upstate  is comprised of many core cities v one city like Charleston, Columbia or Charlotte.  With that, the dynamics are a little different in positive and negative ways.  When you constantly see people arguing over metrics that are not comparable, it is childish and part of the Greenville narrative of we will come up with a way on how we are leading S.C.  Comments made on here about the bulk of significant project located in greenville add to the false narrative mantra of Greenville. Greenville is a part of S.C. and benefits from favorable political gifts and tax credits. It is not leading S.C. at all.

Factually,  Greenville’s population is growing, just at slower rates than other areas of S.C.  It is moderate growth, nothing exceptional.  Greenville is also a huge county land wise so it can accommodate more people before becoming expensive like Charleston.  

As for Charlotte,  you may not like it, but the metro is becoming a larger part of S.C.  York county is growing at a very rapid rate where new high schools are being added every few years.  With the Panthers’ HQ and potential for light rail, the growth will only accelerate into nearby counties.  And yes, the infrastructure will keep up with the growth as good as it better than any region in SC. 

My guess is that you don’t like hearing about Charlotte because it makes your claims about Greenville being the biggest/best in S.C. seem trivial. In one day, York County  announced 5,000 new high quality jobs, most of which were new to Charlotte.  If that happens in greenville, you and other will tout that as why Greenville's the business center of S.C. and better than any other metro. In Charlotte, it is just a part of the long narrative.  So, no, Charlotte, Raleigh, Charleston, Columbia, Atlanta or even Asheville do not have near the self promotion as Greenville.  

Yes, Downtown greenville has come a long way.  But, you can’t ignore that market forces are not driving the growth without understanding that One River Place and others were only built because of tax credits. One has a ton of empty space as a result of low demand.  That is a fact.  You can ignore it, but there is a ton of office space on the market and for sublease that says otherwise.   You are trying to create a market that is just not there.  Will it be, who knows. But, you need to raise college educated rates above the low 30% range if you are to attract large operators.

So, population wise, be consistent with comparisons and stop trying to add areas to make the #’s seem larger, any metro can play that game.  If you are comparing, the same rule set has to apply in a consistent way.  If you and other cant do that, then perhaps you should not be on here.