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Oil at $200/Barrel


monsoon

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I hate to be the bringer of such words, but these high oil prices we're seeing is really driving change in this country, albeit bad timing considering the mortgage crisis we're currently in.

I consider these high oil prices as blessing in disguise as it is finally making folks think twice about living so far away from their place of work or buying such large cars just to move one or two people around an entire city. The figures I could find on a quick Internet search showed that America's ~133M workers drove an average of 16 miles one-way. If that's not bad enough, 80% of those ~133M is the sole person in the car.

I'd be curious to know what the 80% figure is today, perhaps it is closer to 70% or maybe even better? The only way people will live closer to work (which opens up options such as mass transit, walking, biking, etc. to work) is if gas prices are through the roof long-term. Yes, America will suffer in the short-term but we'll be a better country for it. The market is simply correcting itself (long overdue IMO) and while I understand there are those who don't have a choice or their job is traveling...we have made that requirement in America based on cheap oil and that simply cannot continue.

I can't be the only person who smiles a little as the prices go up at the pump. Yes, I'm shocked at how fast they're rising but I'm also not cursing the oil companies, regardless of their true motives. They're doing us a favor because this country simply hasn't been living in reality.

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That is the point most folks are missing.

I'm surely not missing it. The reality is though no matter what technology you go with, you are going to have negatives. We can change over from coal-fired plants over time. We can't change oil over time. We have to start somewheres. Infrastructure and technology does magically appear overnight and make things all clean and environmentally friendly ( I don't consider nuclear as clean and environmentally friendly). Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will cleaner infrastructure be. I'd much rather be driving a Volt or other similar vehicle knowing its a step in the right direction than to sit around, complain about what isn't being done and wait for something miracoulus to happen.

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Wow what people do for gas never ceases to amaze me...On tv they are talkign about people who have resorted to stealing gas by drilling holes in other people's gas tanks to get their gas, all at the risk that drilling could spark an explosion. Still yet, gas stations right over the border in Mexico are being flooded with Americans spilling over the border to buy gas there because it is $2/gallon cheaper. Still yet, many analysts apparently agree, according to CNN, that barrels of oil will take a nosedive by December to under $100/barrel. Saudi Arabia is also holding an OPEC meeting over spiking oil prices and King Abdullah called the rapid spike in oil prices "unjustified." That is a good sign that at least one heavyweight will likely ramp up production even further.

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Reading today's paper, I read a letter to the editor featuring a common, flawed thinking rant: (paraphrasing) "those damn tree-hugging liberals have created this $4 a gallon mess, 'cause they're keeping us from all those billions of barrels in Alaska and off our coasts"

So let me get this straight: pansy-ass liberals are beating GM, Ford, Chrysler, and the 'Detroit Lobby' at lobbying efforts? These damn tree-hugging hippies have more political clout than the attorneys for United Airlines, American Airlines and the airline industry lobby? Where do these sissy-boy enviro nuts get all the money needed to out gun WalMart, FedEx, and the retail trade lobby?

This is the kind of commonly held thinking that makes me so cynical about the future and lowers my expectations for November.

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They did a break down on CNN last night regarding the oil reserves in ANWAR in Alaska. If we started now we'd have the oil in close to 10 years. It is unknown exactly how much is there, but estimates run from (I think i have this right) 1.6billion barrels to 16 billion. Based on our current use it would supply us for 3 months to 30 months. I love how this always comes up as what the problem is when it would just be a drop in the bucket. No one likes to face the fact, that we've known since the 70's, that oil isn't unlimited, demand is rising, and our only real solution is to lower use.

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I wonder why this hasn't beem on the news:

http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-e...-news2.13s.html

175-500 billion barrels found in the Dakotas. With costs per barrel rising, it will become economically and technically feasible to drill. I wonder if this is being downplayed for the oil speculators benefit, because I think it would burst the bubble.

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^Bakken Shale oil: harder to get to, harder to get out of the ground, requires more costly refining, and ultimately it is of less quality. There are all kinds of these non-conventional oil sources, but they all inherently suffer from a lower EROEI (enery returned on energy invested) ratio. Of course we'll use it; but it will be significantly more expensive.

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LOL, they talked about the promise of shale oil in the 1970s. Nothing ever came from it. The next thing we might hear is to revive Nazi Germany's technology to convert coal to oil. That was also something that was promised.

The basic problem the USA has is there is no comprehensive energy policy that does anything but guarantee profits for the energy companies. Until that changes, and it will take a change in government for it to happen, we will continue to see these kind of "snake oil" solutions to what is going on with energy.

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It's amusing to see that automobile adverts are now emphasizing mileage, and seemingly almost over night, over such things as horsepower, size, etc. It's the 1970s revisited. I wonder if it will become trendy again to drive a small economy car over such excessive vehicles like a Hummer, the American SUV and vanity trucks (any truck that isn't being used for truck purposes)?

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It's amusing to see that automobile adverts are now emphasizing mileage, and seemingly almost over night, over such things as horsepower, size, etc. It's the 1970s revisited. I wonder if it will become trendy again to drive a small economy car over such excessive vehicles like a Hummer, the American SUV and vanity trucks (any truck that isn't being used for truck purposes)?

For a while yes, then once we hit a breakthrough with electricity or some other fuel source then it will be back to sports cars and SUV's. Of course if they're efficient and enviro friendly then it shouldn't matter.

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I'm curious how everone personally views, or is affected by the rising cost of oil, and in turn, the rising cost of gasoline. For me, the amount of $ I spend on gasoline is pretty small relative to my budget - I often only need to fill up once a month, so there really is not much of a direct economic effect between $4 gas vs. $3 gas. (Note: I am not considering the increases on other goods and services that are also effected by rising gas prices).

Even if rising gas prices resulted in me having a shortage in my budget, I could easily find $30 to $50 of excess spending per month that I could eliminate if needed. I checked, and I was spending about $48 per fill up back in September and have recently spent $67 for the same amount of gas.

My point is, is the gas price really the issue, or is it just the easiest, most visible target for an economically frustrated country? Are that many people living within such a tight budget that they couldn't find an extra $25 a month if necessary? If we did not have the housing and credit worries happening at the same time, would a $1 increase in gas prices really be as huge of an issue as it is being portrayed?

I know plenty of folks who are changing their transportation habits, either by incorporating public transportation, using driving more efficiently (cluster multiple errands to one trip), or downsizing their means of transportation. I would think this would be the first step that everyone would consider - and if done properly, could easilly offset the rising gas prices.

What does everyone else think?

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Yeah, the people I hear complaining the most are going out to eat 3-4 times a week, going to movies, yadda-yadda-yadda. I think they could easily find a few extra bucks for gas in their budget. I fill up about once every two weeks, so it really isn't a big deal. Doesn't mean I LIKE paying the higher prices, but in the greater scheme of things, not such a biggie.

Now the folks making 9-10 dollars an hour and driving a mid-eighties Cutlass will have a completely different take on it than I do.

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Yeah, the people I hear complaining the most are going out to eat 3-4 times a week, going to movies, yadda-yadda-yadda. I think they could easily find a few extra bucks for gas in their budget. I fill up about once every two weeks, so it really isn't a big deal. Doesn't mean I LIKE paying the higher prices, but in the greater scheme of things, not such a biggie.

Now the folks making 9-10 dollars an hour and driving a mid-eighties Cutlass will have a completely different take on it than I do.

As I've noted before, I don't mind paying the higher prices and I'm more than happy to pay a little more at the pump and push this country into a greener era rather than sit back and watch cheap oil pollute our country uncontrollably.

Having said that, I feel for minimum wage workers driving whatever mid 80's car they can afford that obviously guzzles gas like there is no tomorrow. Unfortunately we're finding ourselves in a situation that we alone created by living further out and fueling the auto industry into manufacturing ever larger and more powerful automobiles.

I think for the most part that people are over-exaggerating their expense increases related to filling up their tank. This coming from someone who remembers vividly my own mother driving an extra five miles to save a couple of cents per gallon of gas. People griped when gas went from $1.02 to $1.05 so obviously there will be griping when gas goes from $3.02 to $4.06 in just one year's time.

My car requires premium (says so on the gas cap and in my car's manual (in addition to warnings from my dealer when I purchased it) and I have always been asked why I spend so much extra money for premium when I could probably put regular in and be fine. Quite frankly, I'm not taking that chance considering "premium required" is plastered everywhere and in the end, it costs me what, a couple of extra bucks each time I fill up? I'll gladly spend an extra $2 for the peace of mind knowing I'm treating my car in the manner for which it was built. If folks really are genuine about their complaints on the rising cost of fuel, then I would suggest cooking more food at home rather than going out for example.

Gas won't cost anything if you don't use your car...so get out and walk, ride public transportation, ride a bicycle, etc. Oh, I forgot, America's sprawl has kept that from becoming a viable alternative because much of America lives in a cul-de-sac miles away from their place of work and the things they need to live comfortably.

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I would like to add that many companies are compensating for it in ways other than raising prices. For instance, companies "discovered" that not only did going to double concentrate on laundry detergent make it easier for people to lug around, but it also saves them MILLIONS every year. The double concentrate shrunk packaging, resulting in reduced packaging costs and has allowed for companies to put more on one shipment. This will not be the only product to go to this. Fabric softener, among others, are on the way, so stay tuned :thumbsup: .

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I would like to add that many companies are compensating for it in ways other than raising prices. For instance, companies "discovered" that not only did going to double concentrate on laundry detergent make it easier for people to lug around, but it also saves them MILLIONS every year. The double concentrate shrunk packaging, resulting in reduced packaging costs and has allowed for companies to put more on one shipment. This will not be the only product to go to this. Fabric softener, among others, are on the way, so stay tuned :thumbsup: .

I typically visit the local CostCo or BJ's for items such as fabric softener and laundry detergent and they have been selling 100% concentrate for a few months now. Have you noticed the trend of shrinking of foods like ice cream as well? I honestly think that is best for a country that suffers from obesity. Same price, but you just don't get as much junk food, win/win for both parties IMO.

You'v heard this before...buy local and in season produce. I don't think anyone NEEDS a fruit that is out of season and if you do then don't complain about the price hike when you see the price tag. Pretty much anyone can grow a small vegetable garden too (even on your balcony if you have an apartment) and that does end up saving you quite a few bucks throughout the year. We just harvested our first round of squash and other veggies from our garden...will make this weekend's grocery trip cheaper. And that's another thing...we go to the grocery store every two weeks instead of every week. We save gas and it is amazing how much money you'll save by doing it this way. We typically save $40 by going every two weeks instead of every one week.

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^ That's amazing if you're getting veggies already, did you start them indoors? I'm probably 2-3 weeks away from getting ripe tomatoes (notable given that many grocers and restaurants have pulled them), hopefully the same for zuccini and cucumbers.

As far as the gas cost, I tend to agree that it should not be making a significant difference unless you are commuting a good ways. For several months I was making the commute from SW Greensboro to the far side of Cary daily, the price increases were meaningful then, but since then I just take a few less local trips during the week to make up for my gas costs in my current 7 minute trip to the office.

As far as produce being linked to the cost of gas, I found a news story a few weeks ago to be interesting - seed producers have actually run out of inventory, as it is apparantly a national trend for people to take to home gardening during times like these. Many people have founds jobs in this environment, giving gardening classes, building gardens for you for a fee, and delivering dirt (the higher grade stuff).

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^ That's interesting, and pretty cool! It reminds me of the Victory Gardens that were planted during World War II to offset the increased demand for food for the war effort. Basically, everyone was planting fruit and veggies in their yards. I don't actually remember them - I wasn't born until much later - but I've read about them.

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I run an almost year round garden (possible here in the Carolinas). I had mustard greens, onions, peas, and some early squash already this year. Summer is peppers, tomatoes, potatoes, egg plant, okra, cucumbers and more zuchinni. Late in the summer plant swiss chard, more mustart greens, brocolli and cabbage for early winter harvest. About the only time something isn't coming out of the garden is in late January and Feb. We eat stuff that I canned or froze during the summer. We also have a separate herb garden. It's all organic as I don't use commercial fertilizers and poison. I also recycle all of the garden waste back into the garden by slow compost.

It's something that almost anyone can do if they have a spot that gets 8 hours of sun.

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^ This is getting way off topic, but I would actually prefer to have a sandier soil as opposed to clay, I have added sand to mine (in addition to compost and top soil) so it would remain looser and therefore easier for roots to grow into (that is my assumption anyway).

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