Possible windfarms in the works in Kent/Ottawa Counties?

[AlexPKeaton]

Honestly... if wind could be harnessed to its potential, we could be a country that has ZERO traditional power plants. Are you serious?

I'm not an expert, but I believe we'd still need a more steady power source to help smooth out the peaks and valleys of more unpredictable power sources like wind and solar.

[Libertarian]

260,000... that's all - lower than I would have expected.

recall, total U.S. land area - 3,794,066 square miles.

I wonder how these things handle in winter. I ask because there are huge swaths of uninhabited tundra in northern Canada and Alaska where these things could be built with minimal environmental impact. Just a thought.

They would be too far from the power grid to be economically feasible. Also, I believe that you would lose too much electricity transporting it to end-users. I think companies building farms out in the Dakotas and remote parts of Texas are starting to run into this to some extent.

I'm not an expert, but I believe we'd still need a more steady power source to help smooth out the peaks and valleys of more unpredictable power sources like wind and solar.

I have seen proposals where the windmills will pump ground water and store it in tanks when the power is not needed and then release it when power is needed. When the water is released it will power hydroelectric generators to create power. I think they might already be teaming windmills with hydroelectric dams to help "smooth" out the peaks and valleys in some type of arrangement. But you are right, this is the one major problem with solar and wind... when they are working at their peak, there is usually less demand for power.

[suydam]

Don't they stick these things in remote places anyway? I remember seeing one of these somewhere near TC and thinking how majestic it was. You become so enthralled in the purpose that the last thing you worry about is what's behind it.

While I enjoy looking at them, and find them quite mesmerizing, I think must of what we confuse as "attractive" might just be the novelty of seeing them.

If we looked at them everywhere, day after day, maybe we'd feel differently. Then again, maybe not.

Interestingly enough, farms in Ontario, on Lake Huron's eastern shore, from Grand Bend up the Bruce Peninsula are putting up wind turbines in droves.

When we drove that route last summer there were at least 20 (where there had been fewer than a handful 2 years earlier). We saw two of them under construction. It really is quite the sight to see them building those things.

[jbr12]

I'm not an expert, but I believe we'd still need a more steady power source to help smooth out the peaks and valleys of more unpredictable power sources like wind and solar.

The article I posted above has a solution to this problem... basically your farm needs to be spread out enough that if the wind dips in one area of the farm, the hope is the wind picks up at the other end of the farm and keeps a constantly flow going. Another solution is the hydroelectric solution that was mentioned above by Libertarian

[gvsusean]

They should make these things out of solar panels so when its not windy, nice sunny days, they get solar power and vice-versa.

[NorthCoast]

They should just line 131 from Grand Rapids to Kalmazoo with those things. That stretch is nothing but a huge wind tunnel.

[jas49503]

They should just line 131 from Grand Rapids to Kalmazoo with those things. That stretch is nothing but a huge wind tunnel.

maybe they could attach billboards beneath the fans to pay for them.

[GRDadof3]

DTE to buy green energy from wind farm

Posted by Press News Service January 30, 2008 19:00PM

Categories: Statewide News

ELKTON -- The state's first commercial-scale wind farm has another customer. DTE Energy, which serves the Thumb region, recently signed a one-year contract to buy green energy from a 32-turbine Harvest Wind Farm.

The contract, which is renewable for two additional years, is with Wolverine Power Supply Cooperative Inc. of Cadillac.

DTE is buying the power for its GreenCurrents program, which allows customers to pay a premium to support renewable power projects like windmills.

So far, about 7,000 of DTE's 2.3 million residential and business customers have signed up for the program.

read more here

So DTE is able to do this because of its 7000 GreenCurrents program. Consumers Energy has 11,400 customers signed up for the Green Generation program, not including the city of GR. Hmmm.

[Phizzy]

I have seen proposals where the windmills will pump ground water and store it in tanks when the power is not needed and then release it when power is needed. When the water is released it will power hydroelectric generators to create power. I think they might already be teaming windmills with hydroelectric dams to help "smooth" out the peaks and valleys in some type of arrangement.

Yes, like the Ludington Pumped Storage Plant.

[Libertarian]

Yes, like the Ludington Pumped Storage Plant.

There you go. Good find! The only problem with that particular example is that the original power source is, I assume, coal or nuclear power plants. All they need to do is put up a wind farm and they basically eliminate the downside of wind power.

[DwntwnGeo]

There you go. Good find! The only problem with that particular example is that the original power source is, I assume, coal or nuclear power plants. All they need to do is put up a wind farm and they basically eliminate the downside of wind power.

To my understanding the primary source is nuclear plants on the power grid. It is more efficient to have the plant run at a constant output level. Since peak demand is during the day when everyone is at work, they needed something to use similar energy during the evening hours. So during the evening hours excess energy is used to pump water into the reservoir while during the day the water is released to create hydro power. At one time they had plans to build a second Pump Storage near the Manistee area, but recently Consumers Energy sold the land to the State of Michigan.

[GRDadof3]

Unbelievably, it seems that the idea of the State pushing for a 10% renewable energy portfolio, to help push demand for alternative energy sources, is building momentum quickly in Lansing:

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7798970

And it sounds like the legislature, including Republicans, are getting on board. The article also mentions that Consumers Energy and DTE may invest up to $6 Billion in new wind farms in Michigan, if consumers will buy it.

[Grand Rapidian]

Wind is sweet, not the solution, but I would sacrifice the views. These are not permanent like the damage we could be doing with fossil fuels. Just a random thought.

[GRDadof3]

A lot of exciting articles about possible wind farms in Ottawa and Kent Counties in the Business Journal today, including maneuvering by two wind generation companies, Heritage Sustainable Energies of Traverse City, and Interdrola Renewables of Spain, the LARGEST wind generation company on the planet with 7800 Megawatts of power being produced (2000 in the U.S.), to set up leasing agreements with farmers throughout Northeast Ottawa County and Western Kent County (The Ridge). Townships are scrambling to get ordinances in place that would "allow" wind farms. Right now many townships don't have specific language in place, which would mean they are possibly prohibited. Interestingly, only one mention is made of the farmland preservation act and how wind farms might greatly facilitate preserving farmland (except in this case, the farmer has put his land in the trust and CAN'T lease it for wind power under current legislation).

Heritage says if their Meteorological Test towers show good results, they will invest in building at least 50 MW of power generation minimum (translation: about twenty 330 foot tall wind turbines).

Trot down to Schuler's Books and pick up a copy.

[fotoman311]

A lot of exciting articles about possible wind farms in Ottawa and Kent Counties in the Business Journal today, including maneuvering by two wind generation companies, Heritage Sustainable Energies of Traverse City, and Interdrola Renewables of Spain, the LARGEST wind generation company on the planet with 7800 Megawatts of power being produced (2000 in the U.S.), to set up leasing agreements with farmers throughout Northeast Ottawa County and Western Kent County (The Ridge). Townships are scrambling to get ordinances in place that would "allow" wind farms. Right now many townships don't have specific language in place, which would mean they are possibly prohibited. Interestingly, only one mention is made of the farmland preservation act and how wind farms might greatly facilitate preserving farmland (except in this case, the farmer has put his land in the trust and CAN'T lease it for wind power under current legislation).

Heritage says if their Meteorological Test towers show good results, they will invest in building at least 50 MW of power generation minimum (translation: about twenty 330 foot tall wind turbines).

Trot down to Schuler's Books and pick up a copy.

That is good news. However, it would be even better news if those wind turbines were being built in Michigan. I read in Andy Guy's Great Lake Guy blog that Vestas decided to build a huge new manufacturing facility in Colorado. Wonder what it would have taken (or would take) to get something like this here in Michigan.

[Rizzo]

A lot of exciting articles about possible wind farms in Ottawa and Kent Counties in the Business Journal today, including maneuvering by two wind generation companies, Heritage Sustainable Energies of Traverse City, and Interdrola Renewables of Spain, the LARGEST wind generation company on the planet with 7800 Megawatts of power being produced (2000 in the U.S.), to set up leasing agreements with farmers throughout Northeast Ottawa County and Western Kent County (The Ridge). Townships are scrambling to get ordinances in place that would "allow" wind farms. Right now many townships don't have specific language in place, which would mean they are possibly prohibited. Interestingly, only one mention is made of the farmland preservation act and how wind farms might greatly facilitate preserving farmland (except in this case, the farmer has put his land in the trust and CAN'T lease it for wind power under current legislation).

Heritage says if their Meteorological Test towers show good results, they will invest in building at least 50 MW of power generation minimum (translation: about twenty 330 foot tall wind turbines).

Trot down to Schuler's Books and pick up a copy.

Hey, wasn't Heartwell talking about some major player, Harasti, from Spain? Maybe manufacturing near Grand Rapids?

[GRDadof3]

Hey, wasn't Heartwell talking about some major player, Harasti, from Spain? Maybe manufacturing near Grand Rapids?

I actually thought the same thing Rizzo, but I didn't have a chance to go back and find the thread or research it. I don't read Spanish, but maybe Harraste (sp?) shows up on the website:

http://www.iberdrola.es/wcorp/corporativa/...106726627718353

The guy who met with Heartwell may have been a President of one of the business units (manufacturing for instance) and not the "President" of the Company, shown here:

http://www.iberdrola.es/wcorp/corporativa/...106729566669805

I gotta think fotoman that it's pretty cost ineffective to build these massive parts and ship them around the country, if they can be built locally.

[GRDadof3]

"Chester Heights Wind Project"......Iberdrola refuses to discuss details due to competitive forces.........30 - 35 towers in Chester Twp alone.........Heritage Sustainable Energies has leases on 4000 acres, 15 - 30 towers envisioned........"Wilson said it helps, too, that "the city of Grand Rapids is really trying to orient themselves into being a green city." The wind farm would "be a pretty prominent element on the landscape," he said. "You'd probably be able to see it from downtown Grand Rapids."......."On The Ridge, Wilson would expect turbines anywhere from 400 feet to 475 feet tall to the tip of the blades -- more than 100 feet taller than the biggest building in Grand Rapids."........."Wind farms would provide income to farmers through leases and could help preserve agriculture", Redding said.

GR Press article today

Yowzers... Awesome!

[walker]

I actually thought the same thing Rizzo, but I didn't have a chance to go back and find the thread or research it. I don't read Spanish, but maybe Harraste (sp?) shows up on the website:

http://www.iberdrola.es/wcorp/corporativa/...106726627718353

The guy who met with Heartwell may have been a President of one of the business units (manufacturing for instance) and not the "President" of the Company, shown here:

http://www.iberdrola.es/wcorp/corporativa/...106729566669805

I gotta think fotoman that it's pretty cost ineffective to build these massive parts and ship them around the country, if they can be built locally.

The latest issue of MIT Technology Review has an article about Spanish wind power technology and related businesses. Apparently Spain is the Silicon Valley of wind technology. The article mentions several Spanish companies in the field besides Iberdrola, so the mystery man that Hartwell talked to could possibly be from one of these other companies.

As far as U.S. manufacturing facilities, it looks like a few other states are ahead of us:

[NorthCoast]

This is fast becoming a very popular issue and movement in the area. The office I work for has been getting a lot of inqueries about wind ordinances lately.

[GRDadof3]

On the subject of windfarms, Texas oil barren T Boone Pickens has announced he wants to spend $2 Billion and build the world's largest windfarm in the Texas panhandle. Here is this infamous quote:

"You find an oilfield, it peaks and starts declining, and you've got to find another one to replace it," said Pickens, who once operated one of the largest independent oil and gas production companies. "It can drive you crazy. With wind, there's no decline curve."

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/t-bo...&dist=msr_7

Nothing gets past these rich oil tycoons. But at least he figured it out while he still has the resources to make it happen. Let's hope other oil and gas companies start diversifying.

[blueradon]

It probably would never happen - but I think it would be so cool for GR to have one of those giant wind turbines in their skyline on top of the hill somewhere. I guess I'll settle for HDCH's needle.

[Rizzo]

It probably would never happen - but I think it would be so cool for GR to have one of those giant wind turbines in their skyline on top of the hill somewhere. I guess I'll settle for HDCH's needle.

Millenium Park's Metro District is supposed to extend into the Butterworth properties. My idea was to have a wind farm on the most western flank.

[GRDadof3]

A sign of things to come? The first Meteorological Test Tower has been put up in Chester Twp, gauging the viability of wind energy on The Ridge.

This tower was erected by Iberdrola Renewables, per this article.

And probably another good reason why The Ridge makes an excellent wind source: transmission lines! (which run along 8th Avenue from 14 Mile down to 4 Mile)

Everything you ever wanted to know about MET wind masts and then some

[GRDadof3]

Seven Allegan County townships rated as "prime" wind generation areas by state task force:

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michiga..._townships.html

http://www.michigantownships.org/twpmaps.asp

I wonder how the tests are going in Ottawa County?