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Same old, same old.  All these rankings mean absolutely nothing to me.  What does this ranking get us?  Where are the shovels in the ground that would illustrate the data & figures?  Where is the development?

 

If you ask me, I'd prefer Amazon's investment and development in Seattle over Raleigh's pattern of sending tech jobs to Research Triangle Parking Lot. 

 

Just once, I'd like to see a major relocation announcement and then read the press release about good business environment here and high quality of life.

 

Where have you been? Have you been paying attention to what's going on with Citrix? There is a reason why Raleigh is getting attention as a tech hotspot. It may mean nothing to you, but it does to people in industry who matter.

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Where have you been? Have you been paying attention to what's going on with Citrix? There is a reason why Raleigh is getting attention as a tech hotspot. It may mean nothing to you, but it does to people in industry who matter.

 

Yes, Citrix is nice.  And holding onto Red Hat was huge (although not too much of a growth thing currently, but at least not a loss).  But when you consider Raleigh's potential and all these fluff pieces on how great Raleigh is... then Raleigh is underachieving.  When you think of the #5 new tech hotspot city, do you really think about a warehouse renovation as the centerpiece? 

 

My point is, for the #5 new tech hotspot city, I would expect more growth.  And I expect it downtown (not Cary and not RTP - those are not the epitome of 'new' tech companies).  As far as the people in the industry that matter, I will look forward to their announcements that matter.  i.e. more buildings, more investment, more jobs. 

 

Now maybe my expectations are unrealistic, but ideally I'd like to see either Cisco or IBM relocate a portion of their RTP employee base to a series of mid-rise buildings downtown (similar to what Amazon did in Seattle).  In my opinion, that would be indicative of the #5 new tech hotspot city.

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Yes, Citrix is nice.  And holding onto Red Hat was huge (although not too much of a growth thing currently, but at least not a loss).  But when you consider Raleigh's potential and all these fluff pieces on how great Raleigh is... then Raleigh is underachieving.  When you think of the #5 new tech hotspot city, do you really think about a warehouse renovation as the centerpiece? 

 

My point is, for the #5 new tech hotspot city, I would expect more growth.  And I expect it downtown (not Cary and not RTP - those are not the epitome of 'new' tech companies).  As far as the people in the industry that matter, I will look forward to their announcements that matter.  i.e. more buildings, more investment, more jobs. 

 

Now maybe my expectations are unrealistic, but ideally I'd like to see either Cisco or IBM relocate a portion of their RTP employee base to a series of mid-rise buildings downtown (similar to what Amazon did in Seattle).  In my opinion, that would be indicative of the #5 new tech hotspot city.

 

I do know that there are things happening, which aren't public knowledge at this point, and it may take a while before new announcements are made. Also, Forbes is a very reputable business magazine, and they typically base their rankings on facts and solid analysis, and not just fluff.

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I do know that there are things happening, which aren't public knowledge at this point, and it may take a while before new announcements are made. Also, Forbes is a very reputable business magazine, and they typically base their rankings on facts and solid analysis, and not just fluff.

 

I hope the 227 Fayetteville Street building wasn't the big news you were hinting at.  Although, it's good to finally see that building being put to good use, but I'd like to see some new (and tall) construction soon!

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Forbes recently ranked Raleigh as the 5th "new" tech hotspot in the country, ahead of rival cities like Seattle and Houston, which is surprising...

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2013/01/10/the-new-places-where-americas-tech-future-is-taking-shape/?utm_campaign=forbestwittersf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

 

I find it a little surprising that they would consider Raleigh as a "new" tech hotspot. I've worked in the IT field for years and have thought of Raleigh as being a tech hotspot for about the same amount of time. Same goes with Austin and Salt Lake City. Seattle and Silicon Valley are kind of on their own island though. However, places like Vegas and San Antonio would definitely be new ones to me.

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I find it a little surprising that they would consider Raleigh as a "new" tech hotspot. I've worked in the IT field for years and have thought of Raleigh as being a tech hotspot for about the same amount of time. Same goes with Austin and Salt Lake City. Seattle and Silicon Valley are kind of on their own island though. However, places like Vegas and San Antonio would definitely be new ones to me.

 

I also thought the same thing. Raleigh has been a tech hotspot for decades. Maybe not to the extent that Silicon Valley was, but nevertheless a tech hotspot. This Forbes ranking could possibly be indicative of Raleigh's re-emergence in high tech. I also see it as good publicity and a catalyst for other high tech companies to consider Raleigh in the future.

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Maybe the difference is RTP has been the tech center in the past, and now Raleigh is a new growing market?  Although, I doubt Forbes makes that distinction.  That's why I have doubts that this top 5 ranking means anything other than more parking lots and sprawl in RTP.  Would love to be proven wrong though.

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You are certainly correct. In the past, "RTP" and "Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill" and eventually just "Raleigh-Durham" was refered to as the tech center. In recent years, there has been a systematic change in the name used to refer to this region and now "Raleigh" is becoming more widely used.

Edited by RALNATIVE

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It's the fact that they broke the areas into separate MSAs-Raleigh-Cary and Durham-Chapel Hill so it's a matter of Raleigh standing on it's own with a lot of help from Cary/Morrisville with SAS and Lenovo. If you combined both together the rankings for the area would have been higher but as pointed out the entire Triangle has been in the top 5 for years. 

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Another Forbes list puts Raleigh as the #4 Fastest Growing City (in terms of population and economy).  http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2013/01/23/americas-fastest-growing-cities/

 

You'd think with a ranking like that we'd have more than 3 buildings at least 20 floors tall, huh?  Can't wait for all these rankings to actually mean something for downtown Raleigh and not just RTP and the suburbs.

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The transformation of downtown Raleigh is going to come from the many 4-6 story buildings that are going up, not a skyscraper.  Skyscrapers are great for postcards of the skyline, but don't do any more to add to the vitality of a place (and sometimes even hurt it) than a smaller mixed-use development. 

 

There are 139 residential units in PNC Plaza, and 17,000 square feet of ground floor retail. 

 

The 425 N. Boylan project has 250 residential units and 13,100 square feet of ground floor retail. 

 

An apples to oranges comparison in some ways, but these are two of the most important things to look at in terms of bringing life and vitality to the streets of a place. 

 

I'm not saying there is no value to skyscrapers because quite clearly there is (and that skyline image does have some value in itself), but I think a lot of times people get way too hung up on tall buildings when these mid-size developments are going to be what truly make the difference for downtown.

Edited by DaleCooper

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I definitely agree with the smaller infill developments still have a great benefit in the urbanization of an area.  And those types of developments are the norm and are expected in downtown Raleigh now.

 

My whole point of bringing up the holy Forbes ranking is to suggest that for the 4th fastest growing city in the COUNTRY, it would seem like you'd expect more downtown development (both mid-rise and tall).  Which is just not the reality.  Which also leads to the conclusion that DanRNC mentions - maybe our growth pattern is to blame.

 

Lastly, just this week, Richmond (who I consider a similar city to Raleigh) announced plans for a 21 story office building.  Yet, Raleigh is the 4th fastest growing city.  Go figure.

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The problem with the Triangle is any mention of planning elicits a response of "socialism" from the natives which is laughable. Skyscrapers, I agree, don't equate with quality of life but more dense, affordable downtown development goes vertical. Building suburban style apartments is not the best bang for your buck on prime center city plots.

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The problem with the Triangle is any mention of planning elicits a response of "socialism" from the natives which is laughable. Skyscrapers, I agree, don't equate with quality of life but more dense, affordable downtown development goes vertical. Building suburban style apartments is not the best bang for your buck on prime center city plots.

 

Dan I think you hit the nail on the head. Some people in this area seem to not understand that it is not feasible to build small structures on valueable downtown land. For a growing urban city like Raleigh, smart development in the CBD is going to take a more vertical form. It simply boils down to the laws of supply and demand.

 

The Raleigh natives need to get with the program, and realize that the days of Mayberry are over, and Raleigh is moving in an urban direction, whether they like it or not.

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The healthiest and smartest cities are a combination of the two camps. Too many mega scrycrapers create a horrible street level experience. Wind tunnels, no sunlight etc etc. But you need some to harness the economic impact potential.  As everyone knows, I am a champion of old buildings and the character they bring to the streetscape and businesses that inhabit them. I am not sure what the correct balance is but it probably varies from location to location...for Raleigh given the almost complete lack of remaining pre-1920 commercial buildings, I'd go so far as to say save them all. That really is only 5 or 6 block length rows of them. For new buildings supply and demand seems to be dictating mid-rise right now and I certainly see plenty of parking lots left downtown. I also see parking decks that can be replaced or built on top of to add more vertical if needed at a later date without imploding existing buildings. 

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They are implementing the many years worth of planning that has been done now. I think business in the triangle is going to really boom in the next decade or so. We will probably continue to see a lot of mid-rise development, but I am really hoping that we get a few new towers to fill in the skyline. 

 

This is an interesting video of a Mitchell Silver presentation. One of the most interesting points was about the number of new business filings per county. The numbers he uses are from 2011. A lot of people think Durham is the place where all the start-ups are, but Wake County had over 15,000 more new business filings in 2011 than Durham County. We are lucky to have someone like him around here. 

 

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I'm just glad that we finally got a tall building in between the two bookends.....and it only took like 15 years lol. I do wish downtown boosters would use a different angle for pictures other then South Saunders St. Sure it's pretty in person but in pictures it makes it look like our downtown is just a couple blocks wide. To me a better angle for pics is to the west of downtown, with views from the north (I hear downtown looks great from the top of the Duke Hospital arking deck at WF Rd/440) in 2nd place. I'm just talking about potential postcard shots which make downtown look impressive from a distance.

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The Raleigh natives need to get with the program, and realize that the days of Mayberry are over, and Raleigh is moving in an urban direction, whether they like it or not.

 

Let's be clear.  You aren't saying that Raleigh residents are the reason there are not more towers in the CBD are you?  I could maybe see that argument for some of the proposals outside the downtown core.

 

Personally, I think all the Mayberry and 'small Southern town Raleigh' talk is exaggerated.  Raleigh hasn't been a small town for a long time.  I think most people are used to it by now.  The Mayberry attitude might could apply to Wake County residents outside the city limits maybe?

 

But anyway, back to the topic:  hopefully these new Forbes rankings will result in more downtown growth in all sectors (commercial, retail, and residential) and in a variety of developments (historic restoration, mid-rise, and a tower or two!)  Everyone's happy!

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Let's be clear.  You aren't saying that Raleigh residents are the reason there are not more towers in the CBD are you?  I could maybe see that argument for some of the proposals outside the downtown core.

 

Personally, I think all the Mayberry and 'small Southern town Raleigh' talk is exaggerated.  Raleigh hasn't been a small town for a long time.  I think most people are used to it by now.  The Mayberry attitude might could apply to Wake County residents outside the city limits maybe?

 

But anyway, back to the topic:  hopefully these new Forbes rankings will result in more downtown growth in all sectors (commercial, retail, and residential) and in a variety of developments (historic restoration, mid-rise, and a tower or two!)  Everyone's happy!

 

No, i'm not saying that the residents are the reason that there aren't more towers in Raleigh. What I am saying is that a large number of the native residents seem to oppose any substantial development that is proposed within the city limits. These NIMBY types always use the typical excuses of tax increases, traffic increase, etc. to justify their displeasure to city council for almost any new development, but honestly I think that their opposition is more related to nostalgia than anything else.

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No matter the number of breweries, the quality of beer coming out of Asheville vastly out number the product here in Raleigh. Until that starts to change, Asheville will always be the beer capital of NC.

 

Couldn't help but notice this comment at the bottom. I completely disagree. Crank Arm's Motivator and Big Boss's Night Knight are on par with the best of Foothills' and Highlands' lineups. This is all moot anyway, the only way Asheville could still be considered the beer capital of the state is if someone counted only Raleigh proper. If you got Durham and Chapel Hill involved it's pretty clear that the center of activity is in the Triangle, and has been for some time. I mean c'mon, Fullsteam, Steel String? That isn't fair.

 

It's true though that Asheville punches well above its weight for a metro its size though, and proportionally for its population it does a lot more craft brewing than the Triangle.

Edited by Spatula

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