Federal Tax Break - Stimulus Plan Poll

[jas49503]

Hehe, they are still borrowing the money. It's not taxes, it's spending. Eliminate this tax and that means the government will borrow more to cover the lost revenue. And for people not paying the tax now, they are talking about some social spending programs.

I don't understand why so many American's keep missing this.

[Mark Miller]

This is idiotic. This money will mean absolutely nothing.

My relative house value has probably dropped by at least $20,000 in the last two years.

My mutual funds lost $2,500 in two months.

$800 means almost nothing to me and even if, as a family, we get more, just how is it going to stimulate the economy??

What are we going to buy that will create jobs? We do not make anything in the US anymore. If you go buy that new big screen TV, how exactly is that going to help stimulate anything.

Look at what this really is. Another desperate attempt by a desperate administration (that is hopelessly out of touch) to prop up this charade long enough to save their collective rears or maybe try to get their worthless irrelevant party elected for four more years.

They better start figuring out a new economic system, because this trickle down crap never worked even when Ronnie was in office.

They better start going after their corporate cronies who are still giving themselves multi-million dollar bonuses even when their companies are going under.

[Ted]

This is idiotic. This money will mean absolutely nothing.

My relative house value has probably dropped by at least $20,000 in the last two years.

My mutual funds lost $2,500 in two months.

$800 means almost nothing to me and even if, as a family, we get more, just how is it going to stimulate the economy??

What are we going to buy that will create jobs? We do not make anything in the US anymore. If you go buy that new big screen TV, how exactly is that going to help stimulate anything.

Look at what this really is. Another desperate attempt by a desperate administration (that is hopelessly out of touch) to prop up this charade long enough to save their collective rears or maybe try to get their worthless irrelevant party elected for four more years.

They better start figuring out a new economic system, because this trickle down crap never worked even when Ronnie was in office.

They better start going after their corporate cronies who are still giving themselves multi-million dollar bonuses even when their companies are going under.

[chgrnative]

You are misinformed to think it didn't work when "Ronnie" was in office. Also haven't I seen that both parties are talking about this stimulus package? Bashing this administration is about as unoriginal as one can get. It snowed today, must be Bush's fault.

[GRDadof3]

You are misinformed to think it didn't work when "Ronnie" was in office. Also haven't I seen that both parties are talking about this stimulus package? Bashing this administration is about as unoriginal as one can get. It snowed today, must be Bush's fault.

[Avocado]

Taken alone, the refund looks like little more than an attempt to boost approval ratings (around 30% for both the President and Congress last time I looked). Combined with today's word of a 3/4 point cut in the Fed's key short-term rate, it starts to look like an actual plan.

Lower rates make starting or expanding businesses a little easier. With a pocket full of dollars, hopefully consumers will give more of these businesses a try. That keeps a few more people employed, and a little more cash moving around.

Agreed that trickle down ain't the way forward (I want more than a drip!), but isn't the $800 instant refund pretty much the opposite of trickle down?

Either way, the stimulus package doesn't really address any of the real issues (massive individual and national debt, no manufacturing...). I think they're just trying to create a few good economic indicators to stem what is looking like an extended free-fall.

[AlexPKeaton]

Even though economists now agree that the last time the Feds gave us a tax rebate in 2001 (which was actually an advance because it was deducted from your tax returns 6 months later!) it did infuse a quick jolt of cash into the consumer economy. But what has it gotten us 6 years later? The economy fundamentally is worse off now than it was after 9/11.

[GRDadof3]

You're blaming the rebate of 2001 for our worsened economic state now? Blame the budget deficit and high energy prices, but those rebates are hardly to blame for something 6 years later. I also don't see how the government is responsible for a mass craze of speculators flipping houses. That's entirely on foolish investors and banks that made bad loans assuming ever-appreciating house prices would make up for defaults. You could argue that more regulation and oversight was needed, however that sort of thing only comes after a disaster, and we've never had a run-up in real estate prices like this in our nation's history.

I also have a hard time seeing how an $800 rebate is just a cheap trick to boost the Republican party. If that were so then don't you think the Democrats would be opposed to it?

[AlexPKeaton]

Tax rebates aren't supposed to be a long-term fix. They're a shot in the arm to hopefully keep things from getting really bad. I still have a hard time blaming them for any long-term problems. If consumers went out and blew all their money that's their own fault and they probably deserve what they get.

That said, I'm still not a big fan of rebates if only because sometimes people need tough love. Don't bail people out. Let businesses that deserve to fail do just that. Low taxes is a good thing long-term provided we don't overspend like this administration has. Let's just hope that next next president brings a return to fiscal conservatism, which seems to be popular among both Republicans (except President Bush, it seems) and Democrats these days.

[GRDadof3]

Tax rebates aren't supposed to be a long-term fix. They're a shot in the arm to hopefully keep things from getting really bad. I still have a hard time blaming them for any long-term problems. If consumers went out and blew all their money that's their own fault and they probably deserve what they get.

That said, I'm still not a big fan of rebates if only because sometimes people need tough love. Don't bail people out. Let businesses that deserve to fail do just that. Low taxes is a good thing long-term provided we don't overspend like this administration has. Let's just hope that next next president brings a return to fiscal conservatism, which seems to be popular among both Republicans (except President Bush, it seems) and Democrats these days.

[BGIII]

I didn't blame any of our current woes on the previous tax advance. I'm saying that the advance in 2001 did nothing to put the economy in a better position in the long run. But it may have made things worse, by stimulating more consumer spending, which put consumers in a more precarious position. According to the Salon article and the economists they interviewed, the $300/$600 advances stimulated much more than that in consumer spending up to 9 months later. Consumers took that extra cash and went and spent double that. Money that they didn't have to begin with (the average household had over $10,000 in credit card debt at the time, and even more today). So in essence, if you give each household $1600 right now, they will go out and spend possibly $2000 - $3000 if the same phenomenon takes place as in 2001. So if average credit card debt is $10,000 now, it will rise to $10,500 - $12,000 9 months from now (after the elections). What a recipe for disaster.

[Libertarian]

The stimulus is an absolute joke. By the way, Pelosi and Reid lobbied Bush for a stimulus(not that I am defending Bush by any means!). The baby died many years ago, time to throw it out with the stale bathwater. A national sales tax and/or VAT tax is the only way to go so we stop subsidizing frivolous expenditures by most Americans. Did anybody see the statistic that states that about 70-75% of our GDP is made up from consumers? Absolutely crazy; this stimulus will only dig the hole deeper.

[GRDadof3]

Consumers put themselves in precarious positions, not the government. Is it the government's job to protect us from ourselves? Do you really think they are equipped to do that? Did it ever occur to you that I might have $1,600 saved up for a $3,200 HDTV and I won't buy it until I have all of the money. If the government gives me $1,600 of MY tax dollars back today, you can bet that I will be spending $3,200 this weekend and guess what, I still have no CC debt. How is that a recipe for disaster? Would you rather the government spent that money? Don't punish the masses for the foolishness of a few. I have little to no compassion for people buried with CC debt due to foolish spending.

[AlexPKeaton]

For us to get our consumerism under control we have to get the budget deficit under control. China is willing to keep propping us up, but we need to end that system for the long-term good of both countries. If we stop racking so much debt China can stop buying it without causing a complete collapse of the dollar. Chinese currency would increase in value relative to the dollar and the cheap junk we buy from China would get more expensive.

[chgrnative]

Tax rebates aren't supposed to be a long-term fix. They're a shot in the arm to hopefully keep things from getting really bad. I still have a hard time blaming them for any long-term problems. If consumers went out and blew all their money that's their own fault and they probably deserve what they get.

That said, I'm still not a big fan of rebates if only because sometimes people need tough love. Don't bail people out. Let businesses that deserve to fail do just that. Low taxes is a good thing long-term provided we don't overspend like this administration has. Let's just hope that next next president brings a return to fiscal conservatism, which seems to be popular among both Republicans (except President Bush, it seems) and Democrats these days.

[WOT]

For us to get our consumerism under control we have to get the budget deficit under control. China is willing to keep propping us up, but we need to end that system for the long-term good of both countries. If we stop racking so much debt China can stop buying it without causing a complete collapse of the dollar. Chinese currency would increase in value relative to the dollar and the cheap junk we buy from China would get more expensive.

[GRDadof3]

Sell California.

[GR Jackson]

One major thing that has to happen is put money back into the hands of the middle class. Not just a tax break, but revise the system to put the burden back on those who can afford it. Then, so as to not make the rich too mad, give them tax breaks for domestic investment.

[WOT]

One major thing that has to happen is put money back into the hands of the middle class. Not just a tax break, but revise the system to put the burden back on those who can afford it. Then, so as to not make the rich too mad, give them tax breaks for domestic investment.

[AlexPKeaton]

Define who can afford it?

[jas49503]

You are exactly right. Everyone I've heard has said that it is intended to be a shot in the arm, not a long term fix. To me one of the most important things we need is energy independence. We need to continue to look for cleaner or alternative sources of energy but in the mean time, drill in Alaska, drill offshore in Florida (Castro is doing it) and build some new refinaries (hasn't it been something like 20 years since the last one was built?). If we don't drill in Alaska some day China will!

[jas49503]

One major thing that has to happen is put money back into the hands of the middle class. Not just a tax break, but revise the system to put the burden back on those who can afford it. Then, so as to not make the rich too mad, give them tax breaks for domestic investment.

[jas49503]

i hat to dissappoint you but the upper tax brackets pay the vast majority of taxes already. I don't have the numbers in front of me but you can look it up on the IRS web site. the middle class pays like 10 percent of taxes. maybe less. if government was limited to an appropriate size then income tax wouldn't even be needed. it wasn't until 1913 that there was even permenant income tax at all.

[GR Jackson]

Define who can afford it?

[GR Jackson]

i hat to dissappoint you but the upper tax brackets pay the vast majority of taxes already. I don't have the numbers in front of me but you can look it up on the IRS web site. the middle class pays like 10 percent of taxes. maybe less. if government was limited to an appropriate size then income tax wouldn't even be needed. it wasn't until 1913 that there was even permenant income tax at all.