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XL Center Renovation/Replacement Plans


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With the income of Hartford county and surrounding area's there really is not much in the way of luxury shopping options. Westfarms has small amount of stores, but really most people in this area have to go to NYC or Boston to get luxury clothing. Downtown Hartford could fill this need. And don't tell me the Hartford area couldn't support a Tiffany, Armani exchange. Burberry, or Versace store. These stores need to be added downtown. People need a reason to go downtown and shop. A family from Farmington wont travel downtown to go to a brookstone store or Gap. While these may be good for the conventions or few downtown residents, people from the burbs need a reason to travel downtown and shop! Come on!!!!!!

Edited by uconn99
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That will just create a large supply of retail square footage without a corresponding increase in demand, i.e. no increase in shopper. Once upon a time Hartford had a lot of retail shops. They went away went residents moved out and malls opened. Hartford's problem is not lack of retail store front, it is lack of shopper.

Not quite true, Hartford hasn't lost that much population (especially downtown), probably around 10 to 12 thousand since 1980. Once Sage Allen and G. Fox closed the rest of the retail went with them (first to West Hartford then Manchester and beyond). Now every suburb competes with its neighbor. Hartford needs to be unique to attract shoppers again, maybe trendy, or more upscale. There are plenty of people the work in Hartford to support more retail. It has nothing to do with population, Glastonbury with a population of a little over 30K has retail Hartford dreams of. Granted the income is much higher, most of them probably work in Hartford. I think it's giving people a reason to venture out of their buildings, but retailers don't want to be the first to venture into a new area, especially one that has struggled in the past, they much rather open up somewhere safe, and I can't really blame them... Hartford used to be the shopping mecca, hopefully with mass transit being developed and projects like the science center, convention center front street and a new arena Hartford has the tools to compete again...

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With the income of Hartford county and surrounding area's there really is not much in the way of luxury shopping options. Westfarms has small amount of stores, but really most people in this area have to go to NYC or Boston to get luxury clothing. Downtown Hartford could fill this need. And don't tell me the Hartford area couldn't support a Tiffany, Armani exchange. Burberry, or Versace store. These stores need to be added downtown. People need a reason to go downtown and shop. A family from Farmington wont travel downtown to go to a brookstone store or Gap. While these may be good for the conventions or few downtown residents, people from the burbs need a reason to travel downtown and shop! Come on!!!!!!

Exactly what I was thinking... Too bad the Tiffany's is opening up at West Farms. Would have loved to see that at either Hartford 21 or Front street...

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Not quite true, Hartford hasn't lost that much population (especially downtown), probably around 10 to 12 thousand since 1980. Once Sage Allen and G. Fox closed the rest of the retail went with them (first to West Hartford then Manchester and beyond). Now every suburb competes with its neighbor. Hartford needs to be unique to attract shoppers again, maybe trendy, or more upscale. There are plenty of people the work in Hartford to support more retail. It has nothing to do with population, Glastonbury with a population of a little over 30K has retail Hartford dreams of. Granted the income is much higher, most of them probably work in Hartford. I think it's giving people a reason to venture out of their buildings, but retailers don't want to be the first to venture into a new area, especially one that has struggled in the past, they much rather open up somewhere safe, and I can't really blame them... Hartford used to be the shopping mecca, hopefully with mass transit being developed and projects like the science center, convention center front street and a new arena Hartford has the tools to compete again...

Hartford population:

1980: 136,392

1990: 139,739

2000: 121,578

2003 estimate: 124,387

In downtown area, I think the population is less than 2,000. 2K in Hartford vs. 30K in Glastonbury, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where to put a shop.

There are about 60,000 office workers, I think that peaked at 100,000. Obviously if downtown workers can support more retail, then Hartford would have more retail shops. Unfortunately office workers cannot keep most retailers in business. Office workers are great for coffee and sandwich shop, but not for book store, gift shop, jewelry store, art gallery, grocery store....If you look at NYC's financial district where tons of people work there, on weekends that too is a ghost town, and that too has very little retail.

Edited by jcrc
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jcrc - I think that is exactly correct. But there have been some steps to remedy that situation. A new HCC would also help in attracting a bigger crowd to the CBD.
The apartments and condos in Hartford are too expensive for most young professionals. The need is not $1,400 one bedroom. We need $800 - $900 one bedroom apartments. We need public and private incentives to encourage people to live in Hartford. If we don't have at least 5,000 downtown residents, we can have the swankiest arena with the most outlandish luxury boxes in the country and on non-event day/night, Hartford will still be dead.
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The apartments and condos in Hartford are too expensive for most young professionals. The need is not $1,400 one bedroom. We need $800 - $900 one bedroom apartments. We need public and private incentives to encourage people to live in Hartford. If we don't have at least 5,000 downtown residents, we can have the swankiest arena with the most outlandish luxury boxes in the country and on non-event day/night, Hartford will still be dead.

JCRC

I think you are correct to a degree but I will submit that >1000 a month is not the problem and neither is 1200, but there needs to be a reason for a young person to pay 1000 or 1200. I think the most important thing would be economy of scale. A young single guy would easily spend 1200 on a nice place, but they would not do so if that place was in a desolate place. Downtown like it or not is desolate. A huge apartment complex in Enfield is not. The difference is that there are hundreds and hundreds of other young people living next door. Storrs is the greatest place in the world if you are 22. There is a never ending supply of young women to watch and talk to and talk about, and there are an endless supply of dudes to watch the game with etc. I know its a strange way to put it, but youth needs youth to function.

Someone would have to be bold enough to invest huge sums of money into additional housing downtown for a long term payoff. Add 500+ units for young people in one project and you would create the "cool place to live" for young city workers. I know I am a broken record by saying the site of 180 Allyn, but a developer could esily create a downtown scene here and build 1000+ units. Think of Hoboken NJ.

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Am I reading this stuff correctly? Burberry, Versace, Armani, Tiffany's? First of all, there are a billion better ways to help downtown retail than a new arena. A new arena's effect would be minimal, the prime of downtown retail was before the Hartford Civic Center existed, and many retailers closed while the Whalers were still here. UConn games are not huge boons to retail either, and a new arena isn't going to add to that crowd.

As far as Tiffany's, Becker's and to a larger extent Lux Bond and Green tried to maintain locations downtown and weren't supported. Why in the world would anyone want or expect Tiffany's to be here? As far as the other stores, Stackpole Moore Tryon carries Burberry and would carry any other brand if the demand was there. Of course, if it's not a chain store or a skyscraper, this forum will largely not care about it.

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At this rate, if any luxury place came to the Hartford area... it would be in one of three places.

- 1. West Hartford/BBS

- 2. Evergreen Walk

- 3. Somewhere in Glastonbury

I couldn't see Hartford downtown beating out those three, even as nice as it would be. So until there's a huge will to create a Newbury St. in Hartford...

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So until there's a huge will to create a Newbury St. in Hartford...

Having Tiffany or Versace in Hartford is totally wishful thinking. Having indies that made Newbury Street charming is not impossible. We just need a lot of residents with disposable income, an accommodating city hall, realistic rent, and no must open 7 day a week nonsense dedicated by landlord who is clueless about retail (somehow I think this is face saving BS by Northland to excuse themselves from their inability to rent the damn place, but I am the trustworthy type). Now back to your regular scheduled reality.

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Having Tiffany or Versace in Hartford is totally wishful thinking. Having indies that made Newbury Street charming is not impossible. We just need a lot of residents with disposable income, an accommodating city hall, realistic rent, and no must open 7 day a week nonsense dedicated by landlord who is clueless about retail (somehow I think this is face saving BS by Northland to excuse themselves from their inability to rent the damn place, but I am the trustworthy type). Now back to your regular scheduled reality.

WELL SAID!

Those brands are the ones that come to a very nice successful area and suck the life out of it with corporate blandness. Stackpole Moore Tryon and Tuesdays are the kind of stores that actually bring the millionairs wifes downtown. Trust me I have seen them walking out the door with an atendant carying bag after bag filling a car trunk. They almost look like aliens in Hartfords downtown, but I have seen them. Now I suggest that if you wanted these people downtown more often you open yourself a high end shoe store walking distance(for the rich this is no more than two store fronts away) from SMT&T. Women can not keep away. It's like crack for them. Add to that the two shoe repair locations all ready downtown and you know people are buying shoes that are valuable enough to repair rather than replace. Also, no matter how fancy the shoe store, you would get normal office worker ladies and men in there buying $150-$200 shoes because we do from time to time spend that much.

The other option I could see having some kind of affect on retail would be Art Galleries. I have seen them changer entire towns on Eastern Long Island, and the areas around them innevitably change. Out there I think for the worse since we all ready has nice mom and pop stores, and they are all gone and the street are full of galleries real estate stores banks and a few of the previously named retailers. (I am talking about East Hampton NY right now) However on Shelter Island NY, the town I grew up on, there has been a gallery that moved into an old empty store and all around it now are fancy little places and eateries now. The change has been dramatic, and has attracted the kind of people hartford wants to attract. Bad for my home town, good for Hartford.

So continuing on this tangent I would think that if a collection of the area art galleries could be encouraged to either open locations near by each other downtown, or some of them create a collectove location.. a seed could be planted for the creation of a district.

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Having Tiffany or Versace in Hartford is totally wishful thinking. Having indies that made Newbury Street charming is not impossible. We just need a lot of residents with disposable income, an accommodating city hall, realistic rent, and no must open 7 day a week nonsense dedicated by landlord who is clueless about retail (somehow I think this is face saving BS by Northland to excuse themselves from their inability to rent the damn place, but I am the trustworthy type). Now back to your regular scheduled reality.

Well... I mentioned any high end retailer. It doesn't have to be Tiffany or Versace or any miscellaneous international brand. If there's some local to Hartford establishment, or several, that want to open up... great.

And yeah, why be open seven days a week? If you're not a big major establishment, do you really need to be open Monday and Tuesday? It would be one thing if you was CVS, McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts, Barnes and Noble ... that lot. Independents, not unless business really takes off to warrant it.

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About how many here actually call it the XL Center though? Still the Civic Center to me.

Much like in Worcester, it's still the Centrum to me even though it's officially been the DCU Center for 3-4 years.

I'm starting to call it the XL Center. I still alternate between XL and Civic Center though.

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I'm starting to call it the XL Center. I still alternate between XL and Civic Center though.

Yeah I do both as well. I have no problem giving into corporate positioning since in this case it only helps Hartford.

now this does not mean I agree with Wrigley Field being renamed(the new owner does)

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...

I saw this editorial in the paper today.

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/editor...0,3495711.story

Although it makes some valid points, I think the author goes out of his or her way to find things to beotch about.

As usual, and the comments are pretty much all from people who think that the XL Center if fine for Hartford and the region. I just don't think people around here really get it. They don't understand that if we want to change the attitudes and perceptions of our city and region, we have to change our own attitudes and start to actually support this city. I support the mayor regarding the arena. Why should the media be all over it so that naysayers can find more things to beotch about?

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I hate when people say that arenas have been proven to not cause economic development.

In the case of redevelopment I am sure that this is fairly true, but if the arena is going to lure a new professional team to the area it has an obvious economic development.

The team itself is a corporation that provides jobs.

and while the Wolfpack has empoyees, the Whalers had many more and better paying ones.

The payroll of an NHL team is over 50 million. The payroll of an NBA team is 100 million. (and thats just the athletes)

That works out to 500 or 1000 jobs worth of payroll (even if it is only spread among a few highly paid athletes)

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  • 1 month later...

the HBJ also had this article about the renovations of the Providence and Springfield Areanas.

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/news6209.html

its a ery nice counter part to the other link.

I think it also points to the need for Hartford to build new. With New Haven, Bridgeport, Springfield, Providence... all choosing to get out of the Arena business or scale down to more modest buildings, it leaves Hartford as an ideal centrally located venue for the larger concerts, and of course the potential professional sports.

If Hartford built new it would have no competition. Think about it. A New arena would do wonders for our concert choices and could definately pull in a better sports/entertainment climate.

How to tie the convention center and arena together to work towards bringing even more conventions to Hartford would be the real trick.

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I've been meaning to ask this question for a while. What happens to the new retail that Northland built on Trumbull street under the plan get rid of Church Street and build the new arena on it? Looking at the site, I don't see how you could align the new street (or is it pedestrian walk way) with Pratt Street without wrecking some of the new retail that Northland built. Am I looking at this wrong or is that indeed the plan?

Edited by MichaelQReilly
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I've been meaning to ask this question for a while. What happens to the new retail that Northland built on Trumbull street under the plan get rid of Church Street and build the new arena on it? Looking at the site, I don't see how you could align the new street (or is it pedestrian walk way) with Pratt Street without wrecking some of the new retail that Northland built. Am I looking at this wrong or is that indeed the plan?

http://www.hartford.gov/Feasibility_Study.pdf

the arena Study page 75 shows a layout with the H-21 retail intact. I think that is the plan at this point, but as we know there is no set plan, so you never really know. this was just a feasability study not any kind of design.

but yeah thats my best guess based on the info we have publicly available.

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