Major League Baseball In Providence

[dgreco]

I think there are a number of precedents for Providence/Boston sustaining a second MLB team. For years DC residents were basically entrenched Orioles fans but now the Nationals are attracting their own following. I think an even better comparison is to the Bay Area. I sort of feel the SFO/OAK dynamic is similar to the BOS/PVD dynamic in ways. The Bay Area has two MLB teams (numerous minor league teams) and the super metro population of 8.1MM (incl Sacramento and San Jose) is just slightly larger than BOS/PVD/HART at about 7.5MM. PVD metro alone is the nation's 35th largest. So from a population dynamic I think we are there.

I think what also matters aside from proximity to other teams and regional population are certain intangibles such as the sports fan base and their loyalty, corporate support, and an owner with deep pockets who is heavily invested in the area.

The Marlins are located in the 7th largest metro in the nation, with nearly 5.5MM folks but they can barely draw. Why? My guess is fan loyalty to other clubs elsewhere as well as other distractions. I'm not sure. Meanwhile, you have places like Milwaukee, which actually has a smaller metro than Providence (~1.6MM vs. 1.5MM) and close proximity to Chicago (with its TWO teams) yet they make it work (albeit with mediocre teams). KC, Cinci, Cleveland, Pittsburgh all have fairly small metros but diehard fans. I personally feel Southern New Englanders fall into a similar category of diehard fans. They enjoy sports - period and would probably rally around a new team. RIers in particular would revel in the notion of being on par with Boston for something :-)

The real problem in attracting a new team here would be finding an owner willing to invest anywhere from $500MM to $750MM to buy a team (old or expansion) and then wrangle for a stadium. Then we'd have to get all those folks who are buying the luxury boxes at the Dunk to pony up for some boxes at the new stadium. Tough sell.

Of course I haven't even mentioned the current pecking order of city's salivating for a team such as Portland OR, Salt Lake, Charlotte, San Antonio, etc. Overall, I'd say a team in Providence would be great and would probably do fine, but I doubt it'll happen anytime within the next few decades.

[Magellan98]

All of the cities you list have major problems when it comes to attending an outdoor event. In Portland it rains to much in April and May. Charlotte can't keep a minor leaque baseball team going plus this is NASCAR territory, San Antonio would be as bad or worse then Arlington in the summer as far as the heat and in Salt Lake they couldn't sell beer at the game. And the temp. there is regularly in the 90's in July and August.

None would match the fan base in New England.

[MadVlad]

When it was completed in 1928, the Industrial National Bank Building was credited as the tallest building in New England. You can look it up. The key word being building, not clock tower.

[Cotuit]

Could we please not do this?

[Baines]

Could we please not do this?

[webbage]

I think this point was brought up earlier, but what would a MLB move in Providence do to the Pawsox? (One of our state's great assets, in my opinion) Obviously a NL team is a great asset as well - but there's just something I like about minor league games. The prices are better for one, but I just love the feel of a smaller park sometimes. McCoy kind of has a community feel, you know?

[Cotuit]

I don't know how scheduling works in baseball, but I would assume the PawSox would not be able to play on the same night as the major league team (maybe the PawSox could have day games when the major is playing at night). But I think the PawSox fate really comes down to the fan base, people here seem to love baseball, New England is a patchwork of minor league teams. There's been talk about bringing a minor league team to Boston proper. New York (a much larger market yes) has 2 or 3 minor league teams in the city (Coney Island, Staten Island, and I want to say there's another one for some reason). The love for baseball in the region, and all the attributes that the PawSox have, make me think they would be fine.

[RLucas83]

I don't know how scheduling works in baseball, but I would assume the PawSox would not be able to play on the same night as the major league team (maybe the PawSox could have day games when the major is playing at night). But I think the PawSox fate really comes down to the fan base, people here seem to love baseball, New England is a patchwork of minor league teams. There's been talk about bringing a minor league team to Boston proper. New York (a much larger market yes) has 2 or 3 minor league teams in the city (Coney Island, Staten Island, and I want to say there's another one for some reason). The love for baseball in the region, and all the attributes that the PawSox have, make me think they would be fine.

[mjerzyk]

I have it from a good source that proposals are floating around for a stadium to be built for a MLB team in the Foxboro area. National League.

[TheAnk]

http://www.portlandseadogs.com/

Probably wouldn't be Portland

[Lowerdeck]

I have it from a good source that proposals are floating around for a stadium to be built for a MLB team in the Foxboro area. National League.

[josek18]

To make sure games are played and profit isnt lost they can build a Dome and call it the "PLUNDERDOME"

[Griswald]

I am a huge sports fan and a huge Red Sox fan. I am also just as big a fan of Providence. While I have been fortunate enough to get to a lot of Red Sox games over the last 5 years or so, it is still difficult and always expensive. Even being a huge Sox fan, would I go to games if there were an MLB team in Providence? HELLS YES!! Would it be good for the city? Of course it would. More media coverage; respect - for having a major league team; money - from people coming to games, buying boxes, staying in hotels, eating at restaurants. The list goes on.

Having any type of major league sports team in Providence is basically a dream of mine, and while I don't imagine it is going to happen in the immediate future, I'm sure it could be made possible at some point. Maybe it can start with soccer, that would be fine with me. And as far as dual stadiums are concerned, I do not think it works well for baseball and any other sport - having a diamond in the middle of a football or soccer field is not ideal. Also, the orientation of seats is completely different for football and soccer, as compared to baseball.

I hope this develops into more than just talk!

[BigUglyCat]

I hope this develops into more than just talk!

[Griswald]

I'm sure something could be arranged, whether it's discounted tickets if you don't take a car and use public transit, limited parking spots, street cars, etc. We're talking a ways down the road here, but it's definitely a possibility for the future. A baseball stadium is different from a football stadium. Gillette is on the smalled side in terms of capacity, at ~65,000. Providence could build a smaller baseball stadium, for about 40,000 or so. Sure it's still a lot of traffic, and a lot would have to be done in the way of roadway expansion and public transit improvement, but there's nothing wrong with talking about it.

I still think it would be more legit to bring pro soccer here, but that discussion is for another board.

[brick]

The Bob Kraft National Legue team rumor is from the days before Gillette was built, and was centered on the (then) Expos. Maybe there is something new, but any news like that seems like a re-tread of that rumor.

If Providence had a team, there is no rule saying that they couldn't play on the same night as the PawSox. the question is whether the Pawsox would remain viable with a major league team in town. I'm not sure. Certainly they would attract a slightly different market. However, AAA franchises are not typically located that close to a major league franchise. Frankly, Ben Mondor has been a great owner for his own team, for the city of Pawtucket, and for the Red Sox. He shouldn't be punished as a result of this, and I also think that taking away a cheap and fun night out isn't very friendly either. An additional problem here is that the PawSox recently updated McCoy to meet newer International League standards for stadiums, which means the stadium exceeds standards for other leagues. Otherwise one thing to propose would be to move the Red Sox AAA franchise to Portland as the Sea Dogs, and then have the AA team come to Pawtucket. I don't think that is necessarily fair to Mondor, either, but it's better than losing the team entirely.

If MLB goes to Foxboro, that would be a huge loss for Providence, IMO. As for the infrastructure, well, I guess we all have different concerns, but I think the way you address that issue is to make infrastructure part of the deal. Maybe if we had a stadium it would give people more reason to use RIPTA, for instance. But that would have to be addressed, for sure. I just hate the NIMBY aspect of saying "we're better off without those things"

[Cotuit]

Presuming a stadium was built, and actually attracted a huge crowd for whatever professional team, the result, at least at the end of the game, would be total utter gridlock.

[09/21/38]

That is why an improved transit system in Providence and commutter rail from Boston to Wickford would give people going to a game in Providence an alternative to driving downtown. This would help ease the traffic problems that exist now.

But even without that additonal infrastructure, Providence has shown it can handle large events. Again using Waterfire or the X-Games as examples, people mostly drove or walked to downtown. Both of these examples usually draw over 50,000 per night without gridlock.

It is unfortunate that a major league team anywhere in Southern New England would effect the Pawsox. But they would still draw from their regular die hard fans and from those young families who would prefer the low cost to go to McCoy.

[Cotuit]

I am a huge sports fan and a huge Red Sox fan. I am also just as big a fan of Providence. While I have been fortunate enough to get to a lot of Red Sox games over the last 5 years or so, it is still difficult and always expensive. Even being a huge Sox fan, would I go to games if there were an MLB team in Providence? HELLS YES!!

[jencoleslaw]

Doughboys would help get me into the stands.

[Frankie811]

I hate sports

[BigUglyCat]

Have you ever been in Kenmore Square before, during, or after a Red Sox game, or in Foxboro before, during, or after a Pats game, or in LaSalle Square before, during, or after a P-Bruins game/PC game/Hannah Montana Concert..? People expect traffic at these times, there is no way to avoid it.

[Bil]

It took me a few days, but I finally found this image from my before-they-called-it-a-blog blog (c2002):

Before anyone jumps on me for the ill conceived parking arrangement, I made this image years ago, before I read Suburban Nation, so I plead ignorance.

The ensuing years have made me realize that of course the layout should be flipped so that the views over the outfield walls will be of downtown and the I-Way.

[runawayjim]

In fact, I have, all of the above. I don't see much comparison with Providence city either in Kenmore Square or in Foxboro. A Providence stadium wouldn't let out close to a major rapid transit facility, or be situated on a nice, big, straight state highway. And you include a crowd from the Civic Center, oh, excuse me, the Dunkin Donuts center? Wouldn't you be hoping for an attendance about 10 or 12 times what the DD holds? C'mon, really! Somehow,magically, I-95 will double in size and grow more ramps? As will all the state highways? You can't even afford to maintain the ones you have now! That last is a situation we share in Maine, by the way.

And, brick! Where did you come up with NIMBY? I'm up here in Maine, so it's hardly my back yard. I truly wish these things were possible for Providence and for RI, but at some point you have to face reality. You need a major metro area for these pro-sports to draw on (the Foxboro crowd being somewhat of an exception but still drawing heavily on the Boston area). Providence didn't grow that way, and is not likely to. What do we do? Go back to the '60's and flatten an entire neighborhood? I hear a lot of wishful thinking, and no realistic ideas.

[frymasterspeck]

i wouldn't be surprised if the boston area were to get another team, it'd end up in foxboro as some sort of big sports complex (like the meadowlands/giants stadium complex in jersey or the sports complex area of philly).