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Major League Baseball In Providence


09/21/38

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- These are the points I disagree with (based on my Yankee and Ray contacts)...PVD Metro is bigger than Milwakee and equal to two others.

- Boston can not support another MLB

- Tampa Bay Rays (AL) and Tampa Yankees (A) both do fine

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Based on the MSA alone there are probably 4 or 5 cities that would get a first chance at supporting MLB if it wasn't for the ability to steal Boston's leftovers, so to speak. No matter how you want to slice it, PVD MSA is a symbiote with (or parasite of) Boston's.

The only argument that Boston can't support another team is that noone would give up their Red Sox loyalty.

A ball is a lot different than AAA ball. AAA has requirements regarding attendance and maintanence of facilities that is a higher level than what an A ball team needs. There are no full season A ball teams above the Mason-Dixon line, so the Pawsox could not become .

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This is a technical question to you MLB-insider-knowers - How come you always use the MSA measurement? Is this MLB's standard measure?

A good chunk of pro sports revenue comes from advertising sales, especially TV. Most media-buying is based on Nielsen's DMAs which are geographically larger than MSAs. It might seem outdated, but most DMAs are defined by the area covered by broadcast TV. Whether or not it applies to how media are delivered, the DMA approach serves as the standard proxy for "markets," and an accurate one. Bridgeport, CT, is included in the NYC DMA which is about 60 miles away, not in the Hartford/New Haven DMA with NH being about 15 miles away.

Does your MSA include Fall River and New Bedford? They are in the Providence DMA.

Also, does MLB set a 'drive radius' or distance from the stadium that defines the draw area? My experience as a suburban Mets fan (no mutt-erings) is that 60-75 miles is about the limit.

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This is a technical question to you MLB-insider-knowers - How come you always use the MSA measurement? Is this MLB's standard measure?

A good chunk of pro sports revenue comes from advertising sales, especially TV. Most media-buying is based on Nielsen's DMAs which are geographically larger than MSAs. It might seem outdated, but most DMAs are defined by the area covered by broadcast TV. Whether or not it applies to how media are delivered, the DMA approach serves as the standard proxy for "markets," and an accurate one. Bridgeport, CT, is included in the NYC DMA which is about 60 miles away, not in the Hartford/New Haven DMA with NH being about 15 miles away.

Does your MSA include Fall River and New Bedford? They are in the Providence DMA.

Also, does MLB set a 'drive radius' or distance from the stadium that defines the draw area? My experience as a suburban Mets fan (no mutt-erings) is that 60-75 miles is about the limit.

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  • 1 month later...

I heard recently that the Krafts were being asked to consider building a new soccer stadium downtown and to move the NE Revolution to Providence. Not the sport I was hoping for but it is something and would be a nice addition to the local sports scene.

Maybe the Marlins will be next.

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are there that many more soccer fans in boston than there are in providence? our latino population is likely all soccer fans. did the foxboro stadium train run during revolution games? if not, there's at least the train that can get people easily in and out of providence. i'd say it's a decent idea.
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I would say its more likely that there are more soccer fans it Boston just by the population difference, thats why I had read that they wanted to build in somerville just north of the new northpoint complex.

They never used the trains to foxboro for the rev's games, I don't think enough people go to each home game to make that viable.

Although, that being said I think it would be great if they moved to providence. It would give us a good venue for some outdoor concerts, maybe Brown and PC could play there. I think this is something the city should pursue. It would give us a top tier professional team, but on a smaller providence scale. Although the cost would most like be the issue since it would be around $100 million to build a 20,000 seat soccer specific stadium. But if built along Allens Ave. it could help stir the need for a street car to connect it to to the train station and would be a huge push forward for the city.

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To be sure, I'd loooooove to see it. But PB79 is spot on re: scale of the markets. In the Boston metro, their "Warwick" is the size of RI. Maybe bigger.

Also, Jim, you mischaracterize the fan base. (Latin fans look down on the MLS even though we've pwned Mexico as a national side.) It's like a baseball crowd, but more kids, more girls. At halftime they parade these wretched urchins, er, your lovely children around the field by the hundreds wearing their unis. Tailgating scene is fairly refined, lots of football.

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I would say that many Pawsox fan's travel from Worcester, Brockton, Fall River, etc. to Pawtucket. And many people who live north and west of Boston travel to Warwick to use the airport to avoid Logan.

So if there is a good enough reason, people will travel to RI. And with access to the MBTA they can take the train.

But I am sure MLS would require a larger venue than 20,000 seats.

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I would say that many Pawsox fan's travel from Worcester, Brockton, Fall River, etc. to Pawtucket. And many people who live north and west of Boston travel to Warwick to use the airport to avoid Logan.

So if there is a good enough reason, people will travel to RI. And with access to the MBTA they can take the train.

But I am sure MLS would require a larger venue than 20,000 seats.

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20,000 is a lot of people. i don't think that soccer is popular enough in the US to attract crowds much larger than that.

i don't know about people from north of boston coming down to PVD to avoid logan, they'd more likely go to manchester, but you're definitely right about people west of boston and people from the fall river and worcester areas.

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I don't remember having flown out of Logan, my family avoids it like the plague. Ever since Green boomed, it's pretty much the only airport we use. It's closer than Bradley.

The thing with stadium size is ... I would not want to build something too huge, but at the same time... too small might hurt if MLS actually does become more popular. Maybe 25k seats?

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It's worth noting that one reason 20K might actually be preferable is that it is better to play in front of a 1/2 full 20K than a 1/7th full 70K stadium. This is often cited as one of the primary reasons the Revs want out of Gillette. They really need to draw 20K+ to make it feel like there is a crowd at Gillette. Might sound stupid, but I can see the point.
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The census definition of the metros does not matter, according to the census, Foxboro is not in Providence's metro, but certainly people from Foxboro come to Providence. Eastern Connecticut is not part of Providence's Metro, Cape Cod is not... A big chunk of Boston's 8 million metro falls within a reasonable geographic distance of Providence. It is not simply 1.6 million versus 8 million. The census is looking at different things than a sports franchise would be.

And technically, we are part of Boston's 8 million.

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The census definition of the metros does not matter, according to the census, Foxboro is not in Providence's metro, but certainly people from Foxboro come to Providence. Eastern Connecticut is not part of Providence's Metro, Cape Cod is not... A big chunk of Boston's 8 million metro falls within a reasonable geographic distance of Providence. It is not simply 1.6 million versus 8 million. The census is looking at different things than a sports franchise would be.

And technically, we are part of Boston's 8 million.

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I hate to be a rain on parade guy.. But if given the choice of RI vs a second team in Boston.. There's maybe a 1% chance in a PVD chosen over Boston scenario.. Connecticut, a larger metro couldn't hold the WHALE.. Its a non-issue.. PVD is at best a triple A minor league venue..

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I know this will never happen for a million different reasons that I can't even think of but.....wouldn't it be cool to build a ball park on the water front (allens ave) and move the PawSox down there? I have not been up to McCoy in a while but isn't is mostly a residential neighborhood?

I could envision (in my layman way) a planned neighborhood with bar/clubs and restaurants opening up all around a water front ball park. A small version of the Fenway. Perhaps a marina could be added for people with pleasure boats who want to see a ball game.

Didn't they build a triple A ball park in Bridgeport? I think I have seen it from 95.

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I know this will never happen for a million different reasons that I can't even think of but.....wouldn't it be cool to build a ball park on the water front (allens ave) and move the PawSox down there? I have not been up to McCoy in a while but isn't is mostly a residential neighborhood?

I could envision (in my layman way) a planned neighborhood with bar/clubs and restaurants opening up all around a water front ball park. A small version of the Fenway. Perhaps a marina could be added for people with pleasure boats who want to see a ball game.

Didn't they build a triple A ball park in Bridgeport? I think I have seen it from 95.

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