FHS Location

[zman9810]

I went to a talk on campus with Admiral Mike Johnson, the Associate Vice Chancellor for Facilities. He talked for a while about the future of the campus, and put up a 50-year map of the university (which included the FHS location and the elementary school on Garland). He stated very clearly that the university is not pressuring FHS to move. He said that if they don't move, they have already drafted plans, but obviously they would like to have the site.

While a lot of high school buildings might not work so well for UA right now, I think the university knows that it must grab the land now while it has money from the Campaign for the Twenty-First Century and a sympathetic seller. If we don't buy this land right now and it goes commercial, we're never getting it (or if we do, it will be much more than $59 million to do so, and then we would have to tear down shops, restaurants, etc.). As long as the university gets its name on the property, it could even allow some development on the site to make back money while it decides what to do with the land.

[bubba72704]

Hello Senator and welcome to the forum.

I think you hit on an important misconception: because of the Campaign for the Twenty-First Century the University of Arkansas is a "rich" institution that can afford to subsidize the local school system. In fact, the Campaign for the Twenty-First Century funds are restricted and can't be used to purchase the Fayetteville High School site. That is why the University plans to start charging a $2 (that will rise to $10 by 2012) per credit hour fee to finance the 30 year bond issue that will be used to pay for it. This is on top of any other tuition increases that will occur such as those that may be imposed to raise funds to renovate the the high school buildings so that they can be used by the university. The sad fact is any money used to renovate the present buildings will be wasted because it will be a matter of time until it is decided that the buildings need to be demolished in order to construct facilities that are designed for university use.

It was established long ago that the primary value of the Fayetteville High School site is in the buildings themselves and not the land that they are on. If the University was simply buying the land itself at market value this purchase would make sense. As it is- whether it's $50 million or the more likely $55 million, it is very overpriced and a fiscally irresponsible move on the part of the University. There is no private interest that would ever consider a purchase like this and so there is no chance of it being commercially developed in the future.

I think the University is miscalculating the effects that this purchase would have on it's future fund raising efforts. When Chancellor John White went before the state legislature asking for it to fully fund the University of Arkansas's requests he was partially successful. When Chancellor Gearhart tries the same thing I imagine he will get a much different reponse if this purchase happens . It has been reported that the members of the state legislature up until now have been saying that this is a local matter and they have no opinion. If the University follows through on this purchase I think there will be a major backlash at the state level against any requests by it for additional funding.

Another facet of this debate that I have not seen addressed anywhere is what happens if the district and university come to an agreement on price and negotiate a contact- will it be contingent on a millage increase passing? It almost feels like that the district is trying to force the issue and tell the voters that they HAVE to approve whatever large tax increase they see as needed to completely fund a new location. I would think that they can't legally approve a sale of the present site without having the public approval of a means to build elsewhere.

[marmot]

Last night at the meeting, a new offer was presented to the school board for the FHS property...... $60 million from a group called Campus Building Group, LLC. They appear to be based out of Springdale and associated with Gary Combs. Anyone know anything about Campus Building Group?

http://www.nwanews.com/nwat/News/66578/

[bubba72704]

Last night at the meeting, a new offer was presented to the school board for the FHS property...... $60 million from a group called Campus Building Group, LLC. They appear to be based out of Springdale and associated with Gary Combs. Anyone know anything about Campus Building Group?

http://www.nwanews.com/nwat/News/66578/

[Mith242]

I guess this makes all of this even more complicated. I guess we can't have anything too easy here in Fayetteville. I don't really know anything about this group. But I don't think I like the idea of this land not being used by either the High School or University. I wonder if the University would be willing to get into a 'bidding war' for this property.

[thewizard16]

I like the idea of this development group turning it into a housing and commerical development. It's a great location for something like that, and it's really not a good location for University expansion (at least in the near to forseeable future) due to the campus being mostly centralized and that piece of land not being easily connected with it. My views on this are undoubtedly being affected by my disdain for the idea of the University paying $50 million for this property considering the monumental costs following the initial purchase just involved in making it somewhat useful to the University. If they offer more than $60 million, I and some other people working there will get louder, no doubt, but it still won't matter. We'll soon see how desperate the Board and the chancellor are to acquire more land for the school, but if I were representing FHS, I'd go for as much as I can get for it... the less money you need to raise to build your new high school, the better, and the easier to get approved.

[zman9810]

This is a very curious development in the Fayetteville High School location debate. According to media reports Campus Building Group was formed specifically to make this offer. Evidently Superintendent New was contacted by them about a month ago before the University of Arkansas Board of Trustees authorized the it's $50 million offer but he only now disclosed this new offer. When New spoke with Chancellor Gearhart on Monday this week Gearhart indicated that the $50 million was a firm offer and evidently New didn't mention at that time that there was another party interested in the property at $10 million more. Instead he waited for media coverage of a public meeting to relay the information to University officials. This sounds like gamesmanship instead of professionals negotiating a business deal with public money.

The offer of $60 million for the 40 acre FHS campus is ridiculous- that comes out to $1.5 million per acre with the added cost of demolition of the existing buildings, infrastructure improvements required by the city and of new construction. The plan of upscale student housing and commercial developement is unrealistic at that cost. For this to be anything but a ploy to try and force the university to up their offer is very unlikely. Hopefully the university will see this and rescind their offer immediately.

If indeed Gary Combs is a partner in Campus Building Group I think it is worth noting what his latest efforts are in the area. Diesel Downs is a huge truckstop planned for the NE corner of the I540/Wagon Wheel Road interchange. It's a total of 46 acres with a capacity of around 300 big rigs. For anyone who has used that interchange it is obvious that it can't handle that type of traffic. It is 2 lane overpass and overloaded now with the truck traffic from the quarry just west of I540. When Combs was informed at a Springdale planning meeting he needed a traffic study he blew up and verbally abused the Springdale planning director. This seems to be a common tactic with Combs as it has occured at other public meetings in the area. If this any indication of who the district is dealing with it calls into question the district officials judgement and may be be a major headache for the city if it does happen.

NWA News article

All the offer/counteroffer and other maneuvers will be for naught anyway if a millage increase doesn't pass. It looks more and more likely that a property tax increase would fail. IMO, the best way to provide the top notch learning environment that the students and community as a whole need is to build anew at the current site. It can be done at a more reasonable overall cost and be a first step towards having a two high school system. It will also help preserve land for the tax producing commercial uses that a new site would take off the tax rolls.

[Mith242]

All the offer/counteroffer and other maneuvers will be for naught anyway if a millage increase doesn't pass. It looks more and more likely that a property tax increase would fail. IMO, the best way to provide the top notch learning environment that the students and community as a whole need is to build anew at the current site. It can be done at a more reasonable overall cost and be a first step towards having a two high school system. It will also help preserve land for the tax producing commercial uses that a new site would take off the tax rolls.

[bubba72704]

If indeed Gary Combs is a partner in Campus Building Group I think it is worth noting what his latest efforts are in the area. Diesel Downs is a huge truckstop planned for the NE corner of the I540/Wagon Wheel Road interchange. It's a total of 46 acres with a capacity of around 300 big rigs. For anyone who has used that interchange it is obvious that it can't handle that type of traffic. It is 2 lane overpass and overloaded now with the truck traffic from the quarry just east of I540. When Combs was informed at a Springdale planning meeting he needed a traffic study he blew up and verbally abused the Springdale planning director. This seems to be a common tactic with Combs as it has occured at other public meetings in the area. If this any indication of who the district is dealing with it calls into question the district officials judgement and may be be a major headache for the city if it does happen.

NWA News article

To your point, It's also worth noting that a couple of years ago Combs was involved in a very public feud with Mayor Coody.... According to the NWA Morning News he sponsored this website http://www.recallcoody.com and actually spent money to circulate this mailer http://www.recallcoody.com/gary_combs_pamphlet.htm in Fayetteville.

I know I'm speculating here, but I would think that any development that has Combs' name on it in Fayetteville would be heavily scrutinized by the currrent city administration. Why would anyone spend $1.5M per acre for land in a city that you would have such a hard time doing business in? I sincerely hope this works out, but I'm pretty suspicious.

[strmchsr77]

I just don't see how this group could afford $60 million starting out. Then they would have to pour millions more for whatever kind of building or complex they would build there. I don't think that there is any land in NWA that is worth 1.5 million per acre. This could come out to be a project in the $100-150+ million range. They must know something that we don't or they are trying to mess with the city or university.

[Mith242]

I just don't see how this group could afford $60 million starting out. Then they would have to pour millions more for whatever kind of building or complex they would build there. I don't think that there is any land in NWA that is worth 1.5 million per acre. This could come out to be a project in the $100-150+ million range. They must know something that we don't or they are trying to mess with the city or university.

[thewizard16]

The University won't be raising their offer, but have not placed an expiration date on it, so I guess we'll soon see if this Campus Building Group is legit, or just an attempt to lure the University into offering more money.

http://www.nwanews.com/nwat/News/67014/

[Mith242]

This seems to have turned into a big mess to me. I don't know if the university is just trying to keep from getting into a bidding war with this other group. It's hard to not get the impression this won't end up being a big mess when it's all said and done.

[OnDickson]

This seems to have turned into a big mess to me. I don't know if the university is just trying to keep from getting into a bidding war with this other group. It's hard to not get the impression this won't end up being a big mess when it's all said and done.

[andrewjensen]

I think you're right, Mith. And the bigger the mess gets, the less likely it is that voters in Fayetteville will support a proposed millage increase that includes selling the current campus. Millage increases are very difficult to pass right now given the state of the economy. What many people forget is that ANY plan for school construction or renovation is going to hinge on the approval of a substantial millage increase. Throw in an already deeply divided population and it might just make this plan a recipie for a colassal failure.

[OnDickson]

I don't see how selling the campus will make it less likely for a millage to pass, considering any proposed millage increase could be half the size if the campus sells. If anything, refusing to sell the campus and then asking for a larger millage increase would seem more likely to fail.

[andrewjensen]

I guess I didn't phrase that very well. The main problem I think is the divisive nature of this issue coupled with the current economic state that will make it very difficult for any millage increase to pass right now. Logically speaking you are completely correct that not selling the campus and asking for a larger millage increase would be more likely to fail. However, we are dealing with both logic and emotion here, and there is a significant number of Fayetteville residents who (for whatever reason) have a very deep emotional attachment to the current FHS location. Is the Morningside Drive location a compromise that enough people will support to pass a millage increase? I don't know, but knowing how strangely things work in Fayetteville, I wouldn't count on it. I just have the feeling that things are going to get messy as I don't see this issue being resolved quickly or easily.

[zman9810]

yeah, unfortunately emotion plays far too great a role in our local politics (actually, politics in general). But if this Campus Building Group is legit (and with Combs and maybe Bob Gaddy involved, they would appear to be), the pros seem to far, far outweigh the cons and hopefully residents would see that:

1. CBG purchase means the property goes onto the tax rolls, creating revenue for the school district it doesn't get with FHS or UA as owner.

2. It means the UA doesn't have to put in a tuition increase to pay for the purchase, thereby avoiding the moral quandary of charging students from all over the state/country/world for the costs of subsidizing the FHS relocation.

3. A hotel, student housing, mixed retail use for the site is classic infill, which fits the City's goals and would reduce student travel time and game day congestion.

4. Not least, the millage increase would be half the size.

5. Fayetteville gets a brand new high school, the UA gets a huge commercial attraction adjoining campus without lifting a finger while property owners and parents of college-aged kids save money on both taxes and tuition.

[Mith242]

The secrecy surrounding Campus Building Group, the timing of their offer and the way the school administration has handled that offer are all reasons to suspect that it is just an attempt to manipulate the situation. The size of the offer also is a good reason to wonder if it is legit. What type of development is going to be built on this extremely expensive piece of property? At $1.5 million per acre I can't imagine student housing being a viable option no matter how upscale it is. This area isn't Pinnacle Hills- it is a decidely not upscale neighborhood and Sixth Street is certainly not Pinnacle Blvd.

[andrewjensen]

if the offer is bogus, Bobby New would be playing a very dangerous game of chicken. If the UA thought it was being played, I'm sure it would pull that offer in a heartbeat. If the UA pulled its offer, would CBG still offer $60M? I doubt it. Fayetteville has too much to lose by playing games with this, so I'm not buying the conspiracy theories until I see some evidence other than the speculation of people who might not get their way and wouldn't take $100 million for the campus if it was offered in cold hard cash tomorrow.

As for the secrecy, that's just how it's done in real estate when there is no signed deal and everything is preliminary. It's hard to get egg on your face if you don't show your face, you know? And maybe some involved don't want to face the accusations of dishonesty that are now being leveled at them based on absolutely nothing of substance.

I think you may be jumping to conclusions about needing to demolish everything given we don't know what they are planning. Heck, they may plan to just gut Fayetteville High and turn it into a hotel. Maybe they'll take the Field House and turn it into a commercial gym. The Sixth Street frontage is very valuable (Chick-fil-A paid $1 million for its 1-acre corner lot on 6th/Razorback on top of demolition and construction costs) There are a lot of valuable acres that aren't covered with buildings (the sports fields) where demolition costs would be less and might make certain parts of the project more cost-effective than others. If Fayetteville has to leaseback, it will be better financially if they get paid $60M instead of $50M, no?

Who knows? It doesn't really matter as long as their check to Fayetteville clears. Don't forget, the UA was ready to tear down Carnell Hall and put in a parking deck until some private developers renovated the place and made it a jewel of campus.

[thewizard16]

Good points Andrew. However, my main suspicion of this whole deal is the funding. If Nock can't secure LESS money than this to build potentially the most significant and potentially lucrative development in downtown Fayetteville in a number of years with a clear building plan and prestigious hotel franchise on the hook, how is Combs managing to come up with that kind of financing in this economy for a project that would seem to have a much lower short-term payback potential?

[Mith242]

Good points Andrew. However, my main suspicion of this whole deal is the funding. If Nock can't secure LESS money than this to build potentially the most significant and potentially lucrative development in downtown Fayetteville in a number of years with a clear building plan and prestigious hotel franchise on the hook, how is Combs managing to come up with that kind of financing in this economy for a project that would seem to have a much lower short-term payback potential?

[OnDickson]

I think the example of Chick-fil-a paying $1 Million for their 1-acre property underscores why some people are a bit skeptical of this CBG proposal. That 1-acre plot that Chick-Fil-A sits on at the SE Corner of the major HWY 62/Razorback Rd intersection is arguably the most prime piece of property along that entire section of 6th Street (the traffic count dips significantly to the East of the Razorback Road intersection). It does at least have to make you wonder how a group of developers intend to purchase the entire 40 acre FHS site (the vast majority of which does not front any thoroughfare) at $1.5 Million per acre and make this thing fly.

[zman9810]

Fayetteville has too much to lose by playing games with this, so I'm not buying the conspiracy theories until I see some evidence other than the speculation of people who might not get their way and wouldn't take $100 million for the campus if it was offered in cold hard cash tomorrow.

As for the secrecy, that's just how it's done in real estate when there is no signed deal and everything is preliminary. It's hard to get egg on your face if you don't show your face, you know? And maybe some involved don't want to face the accusations of dishonesty that are now being leveled at them based on absolutely nothing of substance.

[Mith242]

Well apparently the Campus Building Group aren't going to be involved with this anymore. Although it sounds like FHS is still willing to sell to the U of A. Don't have a lot of details at the moment, but I'm sure more will be coming out soon.