Misc. Uptown Projects/News

[orulz]

Back to the Charlotte-Raleigh comparison thing. I live in the Raleigh area and have lived here for nearly 20 years, I rather like it, but I'd be hard pressed to find many categories where you could say Raleigh wins. Maybe the museums, maybe having our university closer to downtown, mabye the way Raleigh's neighborhoods feel more connected and contiguous with the CBD are some things that Raleigh has going for it.

You'd have to basically consider the whole triangle (Raleigh + Durham + Chapel Hill) to find a more level playing field. But the truth is, most people here mostly stick to Durham/Chapel Hill or Raleigh - the region isn't really that integrated. - so in some sense it's a false comparison. We might be singing a different song about that had our rail system gone ahead in 2005. And even if you take all three cities' downtowns together and add them up, you still don't quite get something that equals the economic engine that is Uptown Charlotte.

[elrodvt]

But then you've re-calibrated what you're worth. Most companies will take that into account within reason but it does raise eyebrows. Had a friend who landed a nice job in Cal but during the HR process they got his current salary and cancelled the offer as it was too much of a raise. Fortune 100 companies can be really dumb but there you have it...

[elrodvt]

I'm curious how people would compare CLT to Richmond? I lived there long ago and it's been a complete transformation in the last 2 decades with a LOT of character. So many cool urban neighborhoods.

Don't read below if your easily offended, think CLT is the ultimate example of a city, and all your big city guests say so :

I walked out to Noda for my first time (you get a lot different perception than when driving) and found it really small, kinda cool, but also kinda seedy. Sort of reminds me of a bad block in Asheville (abandoned buildings killing connectivity, sidewalks that end or are torn up etc...). It was disappointing to me.  I think taking the train might have changed my perspective a little. Plaza is nicer but again super small and disconnected. Neither has nearly enough density to be considered truly walkable.

The south end is dead to me with all the crappy apartment buildings. 

Maybe the new north end will develop well but with no more oversight from the city than south end I don't see how?

Does anyone else feel this way? What am I missing?

Thanks again to the UP folks who helped me decide on downtown! I have high hopes we could turn a corner here.

Edited February 22, 2017 by elrodvt

[Dale]

27 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

I'm curious how people would compare CLT to Richmond? I lived there long ago and it's been a complete transformation in the last 2 decades with a LOT of character. So many cool urban neighborhoods.

Don't read below if your easily offended, think CLT is the ultimate example of a city, and all your big city guests say so :

I walked out to Noda for my first time (you get a lot different perception than when driving) and found it really small, kinda cool, but also kinda seedy. Sort of reminds me of a bad block in Asheville (abandoned buildings killing connectivity, sidewalks that end or are torn up etc...). It was disappointing to me.  I think taking the train might have changed my perspective a little. Plaza is nicer but again super small and disconnected. Neither has nearly enough density to be considered truly walkable.

The south end is dead to me with all the crappy apartment buildings. 

Maybe the new north end will develop well but with no more oversight from the city than south end I don't see how?

Does anyone else feel this way? What am I missing?

Thanks again to the UP folks who helped me decide on downtown! I have high hopes we could turn a corner here.

Don't know what to say other than to reiterate that my big city guests are roundly impressed by the place. Of course that may be that Charlotte is the world's largest city commonly confused with Charleston, and we've exceeded their expectations.

[lewy2000]

36 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

Does anyone else feel this way? What am I missing?

In bad Chinese accent...

The visitor asks the old man, "I'm thinking of moving to this city. Do you think I should?" Old man replies, "How do you like your current city?" Visitor answers, "It sucks. Too many apartments, sidewalks are torn up, neighborhoods aren't walkable..." Old man interrupts, "Don't move, you hate it here too."

Sometimes it ain't the city bro, it's you.

*Don't read the above if you're easily offended.

[elrodvt]

15 minutes ago, Dale said:

Don't know what to say other than to reiterate that my big city guests are roundly impressed by the place. Of course that may be that Charlotte is the world's largest city commonly confused with Charleston, and we've exceeded their expectations.

I think if you like urban Charleston is nicer too though don't you? i've only been there a couple times so i'm sure i've missed some serious downsides. I know it was too expensive to live where I would want to for one thing!

Edited February 22, 2017 by elrodvt

[elrodvt]

6 minutes ago, lewy2000 said:

In bad Chinese accent...

The visitor asks the old man, "I'm thinking of moving to this city. Do you think I should?" Old man replies, "How do you like your current city?" Visitor answers, "It sucks. Too many apartments, sidewalks are torn up, neighborhoods aren't walkable..." Old man interrupts, "Don't move, you hate it here too."

Sometimes it ain't the city bro, it's you.

*Don't read the above if you're easily offended.

But that isn't true. Loved the prior 2 places I lived.

Was just giving an honest critique, after being here 3 years, instead of a love letter. there are lots of good things about Charlotte and as I said I'm starting to get excited about the potential of downtown. But I don't know how you improve if you think things are great when they aren't? Or maybe you're right and it's just me. which is why I asked...

Edited February 22, 2017 by elrodvt

[cltbwimob]

13 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

I'm curious how people would compare CLT to Richmond? I lived there long ago and it's been a complete transformation in the last 2 decades with a LOT of character. So many cool urban neighborhoods.

Don't read below if your easily offended, think CLT is the ultimate example of a city, and all your big city guests say so :

I walked out to Noda for my first time (you get a lot different perception than when driving) and found it really small, kinda cool, but also kinda seedy. Sort of reminds me of a bad block in Asheville (abandoned buildings killing connectivity, sidewalks that end or are torn up etc...). It was disappointing to me. Plaza is nicer but again super small and disconnected. Neither has nearly enough density to be considered truly walkable.

The south end is dead to me with all the crappy apartment buildings. 

Maybe the new north end will develop well but with no more oversight from the city than south end I don't see how?

Does anyone else feel this way? What am I missing?

Thanks again to the UP folks who helped me decide on downtown! I have high hopes we could turn a corner here.

I live in Richmond now. There really is no comparison between Richmond and Charlotte, not because one is necessarily vastly superior to the other, but they are just two distinct cities.  

Richmond is exactly the opposite of Charlotte in many respects.  Charlotte has a fairly vibrant center city-especially given the lack of retail-and some inner ring neighborhoods that are decent.  Richmond has a decent but somewhat dead downtown and some killer neighborhoods (Churchill, the Fan, Bellvue, Scott's Addition, etc). Charlotte tears down every last ounce of its history in order to build brand new (often cheap) buildings.  Richmond values its history immensely and will let an old building sit vacant for decades waiting on a restoration.  Speaking of history, Richmond is one of the most historically significant cities in the US (Civil War Capital, Patrick Henry made his famous speech here...).  Charlotte was pretty much insignificant in every respect until 1990ish.  Richmond is more of an institutional city with the Fed, the Court of Appeals, State Government and the like.  Charlotte is a business city with BofA, Wells, American Airlines, etc.

There really is just no comparing the two. That said, I think there are some things Charlotte could learn from Richmond.  One, stop tearing everything down.  Charlotte has some interesting buildings around, albeit just a few.  We should attempt, to the utmost extent,  save what little we have left.  Two, Charlotte could really use a vibrant arts scene.  The artists here help make this city vastly more interesting than it otherwise would be.  Three, Charlotte should try to cultivate a large scale hyper local movement.  The people in Richmond care about Richmond.  The people in Charlotte care about their BMWs and their 3000 sqft houses.  There is a huge Love RVA campaign here that has been in existence for quite a while.  Nothing similar in Charlotte.

[lewy2000]

26 minutes ago, cltbwimob said:

One, stop tearing everything down.  Charlotte has some interesting buildings around, albeit just a few.  We should attempt, to the utmost extent,  save what little we have left.  

It's too late. Charlotte should instead focus on becoming America's Singapore. Clean, modern, safe, mass transit. It's our best chance at an identity.

Re: Richmond. You can't argue with a Richmonder about Richmond. They'll defend it with their last breath. Only criticism I have is the integration of downtown with their river. Terrible underutilization of a great asset.

Richmond also has VCU which adds significantly to their downtown. Good beer scene too.

Edited February 22, 2017 by lewy2000

[KJHburg]

Charlotte and Richmond are vastly different cities. One is the center of state government and all the benefits of that and Charlotte is self made business city. Metro Charlotte is twice as large and growing twice as fast. In fact Richmond only recently started growing faster as the DC area exploded and more and more companies looked south in VA to expand to a less expensive area. Yes Richmond had a lot more older buildings to work with. What many people don't realize is how small Charlotte was until recently. Our major growth began in the 1970s then exploded in the 80s and 90s and really took off after 2000 except for the recession years. Richmond has more older buildings because they were much bigger than Charlotte 100 years ago. Richmond was bigger than the Raleigh Durham area back in the 70s and 80s  now the Triangle is bigger. I think Charlotte does now value our older buildings and you are seeing more and more being preserved and reused. But as we grew fast in the 70s and 80s we lost many buildings that today I am pretty sure would have been saved today. We are much more like Atlanta than Richmond. (Not in size mind you but in growth rates) Of course there is many things we can improve Charlotte but honestly it starts with you and I. Get out and volunteer help an organization,  your neighborhood, your HOA, your charity, your church or synagogue and make Charlotte a better place. 

Population stats below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

[elrodvt]

59 minutes ago, lewy2000 said:

It's too late. Charlotte should instead focus on becoming America's Singapore. Clean, modern, safe, mass transit. It's our best chance at an identity.

Re: Richmond. You can't argue with a Richmonder about Richmond. They'll defend it with their last breath. Only criticism I have is the integration of downtown with their river. Terrible underutilization of a great asset.

Richmond also has VCU which adds significantly to their downtown. Good beer scene too.

My friend just told me tonight that their push to integrate with the river was a huge win. She's a suburbanite though so not sure what her perspective is. I'm going up in May for the first time in 15 years or so and will be interested in reaching my own conclusions. Having a pretty fast train to DC and then onto Accela must be a huge benefit.

Edited February 22, 2017 by elrodvt

[elrodvt]

Clt and kjh, good posts. How does one get involved here?

In a prior city the design review board held great power, with great results, and I used to go to those meetings to have my voice heard. It was very open. In the end the planning agency staff gave advice to the city council and they ultimately decided but the design board advise was mostly honored (in my few experiences). Again the hearings were well publisized and open for citizen comment.

 

How's it work here? What body in clt could have prevented how South end went and could all of us who care take turns going to them to lobby for something better this time? The observer articles have been a nice start but it's just not clear to me that any citizen has the power to change things. 

[cltbwimob]

2 hours ago, elrodvt said:

Clt and kjh, good posts. How does one get involved here?

At the risk of giving  you a sort of cliche non-answer-you just gotta do it.  Go to the city council meetings, go to neighborhood association meetings, get involved in one of the major community organizations such as Kiwanis, volunteer, find out who the local power players are for your specific issue and get in touch with them somehow...you get the idea.  Most importantly, if you believe in a cause, don't take no for an answer unless the cause you are advocating is clearly proven to be wrong.  A good example of a tenacious Charlotte leader I admire is Dr. Richard Reiling.  He has been pushing for a medical school now for probably 15 or so years.  He has been shunned at just about every turn.  But he just kept going because he knew his passion for establishing a medical school in Charlotte was a worthy pursuit, and now people are starting to get on board.  At a recent UNCC BOT meeting, one of the trustees is on record as supporting the medical school (big step when the chancellor of the school actually fought the med school proposal at first).  And then I found this:

http://ninertimes.com/2017/02/chancellor-philip-l-dubois-discusses-construction-diversity-and-possibility-of-a-law-or-medical-school/

 

One of the things that drives me crazy about Charlotte is the general sense of apathy I get when mingling in the city.  That's what I was referring to before when I said Charlotteans care about their cars and houses.  Case-in-point: everyone made a big stink about the DFA building taking out everyone's beloved corner of Southend.  Then when city council took up the issue, not a single soul showed up to fight against it.  Now one of the last little respites good urbanism in Southend has succumbed to something that looks like the unholy lovechild of a glass cathedral and a Southpark office tower.  What should have happened was all that indignation and outrage that found its way to the internet when the plan first came out, should have been channeled to city council instead.  Things may have been different if hundreds of citizens showed up in protest when that project was being vetted. 

Another example: our most vocal grassroots movement in Charlotte is the anti-toll crowd of Widen I-77.  How pathetic is it that the cause about which people are most vocal in the Charlotte area is the toll lanes on I-77.  Our incredibly low economic mobility ranking-doesn't even register.  The empty median in I-77 being replaced with toll lanes that nobody is forcing anyone to use-grab your torches and pitchforks.

Sorry, think I went off on a bit of a tangent there. 

Back to miscellaneous uptown projects. Is Kessler ever going to start his Grand Bohemian?

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by cltbwimob

[CLTProductions]

5 hours ago, cltbwimob said:

Back to miscellaneous uptown projects. Is Kessler ever going to start his Grand Bohemian?

Funny you should ask, they've actually applied for an address and will finally break ground in the fall.

[KJHburg]

Any design of Bohemian released yet and I missed it? Their location in Savannah is beautiful one of the best looking hotels on the riverfront. 

As for getting involved I agree with cltwimob find your passion and volunteer with it. If it is historical preservation here the local group http://landmarkscommission.org/ and if it is affordable housing it is http://www.habitatcharlotte.org/  Habitat has built more affordable housing than anyone in Charlotte.  Attend rezoning requests. Charlotte is growing so fast all volunteer groups need more people as the needs are growing as well. 

[SgtCampsalot]

10 hours ago, elrodvt said:

 I walked out to Noda for my first time (you get a lot different perception than when driving) and found it really small, kinda cool, but also kinda seedy. Sort of reminds me of a bad block in Asheville (abandoned buildings killing connectivity, sidewalks that end or are torn up etc...). It was disappointing to me.  I think taking the train might have changed my perspective a little. Plaza is nicer but again super small and disconnected. Neither has nearly enough density to be considered truly walkable.

The south end is dead to me with all the crappy apartment buildings. 

Maybe the new north end will develop well but with no more oversight from the city than south end I don't see how?

Does anyone else feel this way? What am I missing?

I hear what you're saying, but you gotta remember that the N Davidson St corridor (and especially the N Tryon St corridor) were wholly and completely ignored by the city and development community for decades. We're sitting here on our boards excited about the playground that (the walkable parts of) our city is becoming, but I do often hear people in the last couple years who suddenly expect everything to be nice by yesterday. I see this a lot in the people buying the big new houses in the area.

Change takes time, and if change happens too quickly, people are negatively impacted (all of CLT is a great example; lost old buildings, lost landscapes, bad infrastructure design).

[cjd5050]

3 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

I hear what you're saying, but you gotta remember that the N Davidson St corridor (and especially the N Tryon St corridor) were wholly and completely ignored by the city and development community for decades. We're sitting here on our boards excited about the playground that (the walkable parts of) our city is becoming, but I do often hear people in the last couple years who suddenly expect everything to be nice by yesterday. I see this a lot in the people buying the big new houses in the area.

Change takes time, and if change happens too quickly, people are negatively impacted (all of CLT is a great example; lost old buildings, lost landscapes, bad infrastructure design).

N Tryon from Craighead to 30th is a gold mine.  A great mix of buildings with some potential and lots/structures that don't.  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

N Tryon from Craighead to 30th is a gold mine.  A great mix of buildings with some potential and lots/structures that don't.  

To me maybe 4 buildings in the general vicinity of big NoDa Brewing, all squat industrial buildings, are worth anything. The rest can go.

[SgtCampsalot]

12 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

N Tryon from Craighead to 30th is a gold mine.  A great mix of buildings with some potential and lots/structures that don't.  

Totally. The irony of an area being left to rot for decades is that it retains the structures that are worth keeping for the future. I really hope this guy, this little strip, this little guy, and this dude are rehabbed into a use befitting the area's future.

7 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

To me maybe 4 buildings in the general vicinity of big NoDa Brewing, all squat industrial buildings, are worth anything. The rest can go.

Have you seen the above, especially the first one (this guy)??

Edit: My mis-read noticed. Gotchya

Edited February 22, 2017 by SgtCampsalot

[Guest]

Just now, SgtCampsalot said:

Totally. The irony of an area being left to rot for decades is that it retains the structures that are worth keeping for the future. I really hope this guy, this little strip, this little guy, and this dude are rehabbed into a use befitting the area's future.

Have you seen the above, especially the first one??

The first one has a presubmit to turn it into retail, restaurant and meeting space, fyi. 
 

He specifically said between Craighead and 30th. The corridor between 277 and into the 20s has dozens of cool structures. There is no contrast more stark in the entire city than crossing 277 on N. Tryon. I just can't imagine how the city let it all rot, when the proximity is just right there.

[Desert Power]

I do the walk between NoDa and Uptown quite frequently.  I'm always amazed by the transformation and come back with different properties I want to look up the plans for.  Brevard between Parkwood and Jordan is really where things should blow up.  It looks like they're finally starting on demo for the mill at Jordan, but none of the other projects seem to have started.  There are two light rail stops really close to each other, and the bridge over to 25th to Davidson (when is that scheduled) will be key.

[cjd5050]

49 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

To me maybe 4 buildings in the general vicinity of big NoDa Brewing, all squat industrial buildings, are worth anything. The rest can go.

Ya.  Not many but some.  

The bargain max building at 2920 N Tryon St, Charlotte, NC 28206 is huge.  Would love to see that be converted to a large brewery or even office space.  Meadows Office Furniture at 151 Atando Ave, Charlotte, NC 28206 is also pretty cool.  Anything old/brick is interesting to me.  Even single story.  Some of these structures remind me the Vortex Doughnuts building in AVL.  

I would love to see this section become 'brewers row' and mix in some housing and office space...mix in some cool places to eat.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

Ya.  Not many but some.  

The bargain max building at 2920 N Tryon St, Charlotte, NC 28206 is huge.  Would love to see that be converted to a large brewery or even office space.  Meadows Office Furniture at 151 Atando Ave, Charlotte, NC 28206 is also pretty cool.  Anything old/brick is interesting to me.  Even single story.  Some of these structures remind me the Vortex Doughnuts building in AVL.  

I would love to see this section become 'brewers row' and mix in some housing and office space...mix in some cool places to eat.  

You have the same appreciation as me. Honestly I see any old brick auto repair shop and I think of giving it the old Pizza Peel Treatment.

[Spartan]

8 hours ago, cltbwimob said:

One of the things that drives me crazy about Charlotte is the general sense of apathy I get when mingling in the city.  That's what I was referring to before when I said Charlotteans care about their cars and houses.  Case-in-point: everyone made a big stink about the DFA building taking out everyone's beloved corner of Southend.  Then when city council took up the issue, not a single soul showed up to fight against it.  Now one of the last little respites good urbanism in Southend has succumbed to something that looks like the unholy lovechild of a glass cathedral and a Southpark office tower.  What should have happened was all that indignation and outrage that found its way to the internet when the plan first came out, should have been channeled to city council instead.  Things may have been different if hundreds of citizens showed up in protest when that project was being vetted. 

But the Agenda said the new building was A-OK!?!? Why speak out about something when the new thing is so much better?

Seriously though, I think you right about the apathy towards development and historic preservation here, but I also think are mixing two concepts related to DFA: 1) The love of Common Market and 2) the love of the buildings.

1- The general public was upset that CM was closing, but at the end of they day CM didn't go out of business, they were forced out by the property owner which was entirely a business decision. I think most people understood that even if they didn't like it.

2- It's possible that people saw the value in the old buildings on Camden and the awesome space that was the CM patio, but Charlotte is mostly dispassionate when it comes to historic preservation (with the notable exception of the fire station on South Blvd and the Van Landingham estate for some reason). Other than the love of CM, there was never any attachment to those buildings by the general public. Was there disappointment in seeing them go? Sure. Passion about it? Nope.

3- Our all-knowing legislature removed the public's ability to file a protest petition to stop bad development, so the development itself was not likely to be stopped anyway. I recognize that the general public probably isn't aware of this one, specifically, but I'm willing to bet that most people assumed it was a done deal.

I think that's why people didn't show up to speak against it.

[UPNoDa]

 Once Urban Ministry Center and the Men's Shelter of Charlotte is gone, only then will N.Tryon begin to grow.....

https://goo.gl/maps/sMcG2oxHhEv

https://goo.gl/maps/tWoPxuWhRY72