Misc. Uptown Projects/News

[southslider]

^Latta Arcade/Brevard Court is like that, if only it'd be open 24/7. At least, the City is looking at building a new raised, mid-block crosswalk across Tryon.

[Desert Power]

7 hours ago, southslider said:

^Latta Arcade/Brevard Court is like that, if only it'd be open 24/7. At least, the City is looking at building a new raised, mid-block crosswalk across Tryon.

Where is that?

[southslider]

^In front of Latta Arcade

[JoshuaDrown]

Does anyone know what might be going on in this lot, the drilling rigs have been working for three days? It's the parking lot behind Camden Cotton Mill, between 5th St and 6th St.

[CLTProductions]

5 minutes ago, JoshuaDrown said:

Does anyone know what might be going on in this lot, the drilling rigs have been working for three days? It's the parking lot behind Camden Cotton Mill, between 5th St and 6th St.

Work for the temp train station I'd assume 

[JoshuaDrown]

9 hours ago, Jayvee said:

Work for the temp train station I'd assume 

Ahh, that makes sense. They have now moved their drilling over to the lot between W Trade St and 5th St.

[baraklech]

 

Sorry if that's been posted already.

Edited March 9, 2017 by baraklech

[deleted]

59 minutes ago, baraklech said:

 

Sorry if that's been posted already.

They took a crappy suburban style building and made it far less crappy.  I say "good job"!

[CLTProductions]

BofA Plazas renovations look spectacular and better than any of us imagined. Meanwhile across the street, this got scrapped (edited: good point RDF) to all hell. Good ole Charlotte. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Jayvee

[Guest]

BofA Plazas renovations look spectacular and better than any of us imagined. Meanwhile across the street, this got value engineered to all hell. Good ole Charlotte. 

VEd isn't the word for this, Scrapped is. They scrapped their plans for it.

[KJHburg]

I agree it is no a renovation just some updating on the front and barely that. But lets not forget Barings Cornerstone brought us the new 300 South Tryon tower and Kimpton hotel and the parking garage renovations across from Ink and Ivy. Who knows maybe longer term they will build something behind the Marriott and Independence Center where there is a parking deck. That has always been a 2nd tower site. 

[DMann]

That parking deck was initially built as a "temporary structure"

[Guest]

On 3/3/2017 at 4:12 PM, tiblerbrit said:

I'm pretty sure Kermit and Atlrvr are implying it's the company that was recently bought by Duke that has its current headquarters in Southpark

I'm sure the marriott is pissed. They went ahead and built an out door facade inside the atrium because the atrium was supposed to be removed. From what I understand they couldn't figure out how to dampen the wind tunnel effect so the atrium had to stay. 

[CLTProductions]

4 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I'm sure the marriott is pissed. They went ahead and built an out door facade inside the atrium because the atrium was supposed to be removed. From what I understand they couldn't figure out how to dampen the wind tunnel effect so the atrium had to stay. 

Spoke with 101 n Tryon peeps. There's 2 pieces to this project. Lobby reno (as seen here) and a non-restaurant/bar retail component that will affect the atrium, entrance and street level presence. They can go at separate times and don't impact each other heavily during construction. The lobby is ready to go. Retail is not. So rather than holding up the lobby, that's just phase A. Retail is phase B, which I was assured, WILL happen. It's a tenant demand and the building needs to do all it can to keep whoever it can. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Jayvee

[Dale]

Good news.

[KJHburg]

Miscellaneous uptown photos and future development sites like the site along West Trade on the block the Builders Bldg is on.  I have always loved the Carillon building too 

[CriticalT]

I apologize in advance for not knowing where this belongs.

There is a massive fire at an apartment building under construction in downtown Raleigh.  I think building codes re wood might being getting a review. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by CriticalT

[VTinCV]

I don't know if this would have an effect on the building codes. All of the fire safety measures that go into these types of projects happen after framing. Drywall, firewalls and sprinkler systems all work to contain and/or suppress the fire, but none are in place during early stages of construction. And since there is no one inhabiting these projects until after those systems are in place, I don't know if anything would be required to change.

Codes already protect nearby buildings. If  any buildings are within a certain distance from their property line (and thus a potential neighbor), they must have some sort of fire protection/rating on those exterior walls.  So the adjacent building that is being evacuated has at least a one hour wall separating the people from the fire and giving them time to evacuate.

There have been silmilar situations before (Carson St townhomes os a local example) of buildings under construction in the 'piles of sticks' phase that was someone's shelter. On a cold night, a fire was lit to keep them warm and it got out of hand. I don't know if this was the case here, but it wouldn't surprise me.  Maybe more regulations on locking up the site?  But no matter what you do, if someone wants to get in, they will find a way. 

Definitely an unfortunate situation anyway you look at it, but I don't think that building codes will change too dramatically because of it. 

[asthasr]

All it takes to compromise an interior firewall is a single workman invisibly cutting corners, or an occupant accidentally knocking a hole in it and then repairing it with the wrong material. Code is important, but I'm afraid that we'll have to relearn the lessons of wooden cities again in the near future.

[tozmervo]

33 minutes ago, asthasr said:

All it takes to compromise an interior firewall is a single workman invisibly cutting corners, or an occupant accidentally knocking a hole in it and then repairing it with the wrong material. Code is important, but I'm afraid that we'll have to relearn the lessons of wooden cities again in the near future.

Lest I ever regret my words, it's not likely. It is very difficult to burn down modern commercial buildings, regardless of their construction, and on top of that it is even harder for fire to spread. Last night's incident - as well as some similar incidents (this happened in Dallas a couple of years ago) - was on an active construction site in the middle of wood framing, long before any real fire protection systems are installed. Apart from some kind of explosion, the adjacent buildings were never in real danger of burning down. Their exterior walls did what they were supposed to do and greatly slowed the transmission of heat/fire to their interiors, where sprinkler systems would have snuffed it out in a hurry.

Chapter 33 of the North Carolina Building Code covers safeguards during construction, including excavation, sanitation, protecting pedestrians & adjoining property, maintaining safe egress for workers (notably no one died last night), and the locating of fire extinguishers throughout a construction site. It further refers to the International Fire Code chapter 14 for more requirements for flammable liquids, explosives, smoking requirements, and welding or roof tar operations.

 

[asthasr]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

Lest I ever regret my words, it's not likely. It is very difficult to burn down modern commercial buildings, regardless of their construction, and on top of that it is even harder for fire to spread. Last night's incident - as well as some similar incidents (this happened in Dallas a couple of years ago) - was on an active construction site in the middle of wood framing, long before any real fire protection systems are installed. Apart from some kind of explosion, the adjacent buildings were never in real danger of burning down. Their exterior walls did what they were supposed to do and greatly slowed the transmission of heat/fire to their interiors, where sprinkler systems would have snuffed it out in a hurry.

Chapter 33 of the North Carolina Building Code covers safeguards during construction, including excavation, sanitation, protecting pedestrians & adjoining property, maintaining safe egress for workers (notably no one died last night), and the locating of fire extinguishers throughout a construction site. It further refers to the International Fire Code chapter 14 for more requirements for flammable liquids, explosives, smoking requirements, and welding or roof tar operations.

 

I agree, for commercial buildings that are subject to regular inspections and restrictions ("no personal heaters in the office!"), but consider a project like the "Montage" development uptown. 300+ units of apartments, probably not inspected for years while leased, with families and individuals living in them. Undoubtedly some people in a building like that will need to use oxygen. Most likely someone in that building will improperly store LP in their apartment. Some people will smoke in their apartment. Every apartment will be outfitted with ranges, water heaters, and furnaces. There are so many possible sources of ignition and so many likely accelerants and explosives that I just can't believe that it's wise to build these massive developments. All it takes is one 20lb LP cylinder or a couple of oxygen tanks to make the fire code irrelevant for at least a dozen apartments.

Edit: Just as a note, lest you think "well, why haven't we seen these fires already?" Just remember that the 1+5 style didn't become legal until 2009, so we've had less than a decade of the construction of these and still less occupancy of these massive projects.

Edited March 17, 2017 by asthasr

[tozmervo]

38 minutes ago, asthasr said:

I agree, for commercial buildings that are subject to regular inspections and restrictions ("no personal heaters in the office!"), but consider a project like the "Montage" development uptown. 300+ units of apartments, probably not inspected for years while leased, with families and individuals living in them. Undoubtedly some people in a building like that will need to use oxygen. Most likely someone in that building will improperly store LP in their apartment. Some people will smoke in their apartment. Every apartment will be outfitted with ranges, water heaters, and furnaces. There are so many possible sources of ignition and so many likely accelerants and explosives that I just can't believe that it's wise to build these massive developments. All it takes is one 20lb LP cylinder or a couple of oxygen tanks to make the fire code irrelevant for at least a dozen apartments.

Fundamentally, building code is designed to do three things, in descending priority: 1) Prevent fire long enough for occupants to escape, 2) Prevent fire long enough for fire fighters to safely enter a building and fight it, and 3) Prevent building damage.

If we use potential explosives as the baseline for fire proofing residential units, the code would treat them as "Hazardous" occupancies (like chemical warehouses or labs), and we wouldn't be able to afford to build anything ever again. Having said that, depending on the sprinkler system type installed and a few other things, residential units are "encased" by a fire rating of 1/2 to 1 hours, meaning the walls, doors, etc enclosing a unit will resist the passage of fire for that amount of time. Great care and attention is paid to wall joints, penetrations and other ways fire could otherwise "leap" or spread from unit to unit. For most of these wood stick-built projects, the entire superstructure (columns, floors, roof) are also rated 1 hour.

So hypothetically an oxygen canister explodes. It compromises 4 apartment units. The fire suppression system is immediately triggered in the floors/zones and the sprinkler system (the supply is protected by code), deluges the building areas affected, and the fire alarm system automatically notifies the local fire department. The walls of the compromised unit will hold back the fire for at least a 1/2 hour. All residents safely escape via multiple means of egress, all of which are protected by their own 1 or 2-hour ratings. Fire fighters have good code-required truck access and water access, even on the upper floors, where they can plug into standpipe systems for water flow. All apartment buildings are considered commercial construction, and their fire protection systems are inspected regularly to ensure good maintenance.

Yes, people can be stupid and irresponsible. But my point is that the building code already takes that into account. Deaths in commercial fires are extremely rare, and almost always happen in very old pre-code buildings. In total - including single family homes - only 3200 people died in fires in 2014. That is an astonishingly low number that has been going lower every year. I only ask that no one underestimate the massive investment of time, energy and money in fire prevention and protection that goes on in the built environment.

[asthasr]

I hope you're correct, but I can't help but consider things like the Avalon fire.

[jednc]

28 minutes ago, asthasr said:

I hope you're correct, but I can't help but consider things like the Avalon fire.

Not trying to be difficult here because that is certainly an unfortunate fire, but the article states "The fire was mostly contained by Wednesday night, with no loss of life or major injuries reported, according to Edgewater Mayor Michael McPartland."

If I'm understanding the posts on fire codes above, it seems that the fire codes worked exactly as intended in this fire. No one was seriously hurt and no one was killed.

[asthasr]

That's very fair. I just wonder whether all of the building would've burnt down at all (costing 400 apartments worth of tenants their possessions, despite a lack of injury) if the thing wasn't a pile of wood.