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Yes, I do recall the Independence and the Hotel Charlotte. I'm just a bit puzzled because old street shots of Tryon and Trade look quite unremarkable.

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The "remarkableness" of a city is pretty irrelevant. Great places are places where people want to go: restaurants, markets, clubs, galleries, barber shops, bowling alleys, cinemas, ballparks... Some of these places are expensive and wildly profitable and can afford prime land and new buildings. Others aren't and can't. They rely on cheaper building stock, older parts of cities, and so on. Lacking these "bones" is what causes Charlotte to feel "sterile" to many people: we don't have many places that are unique to us because chains and corporations are the only ones who can afford our uniformly new, expensive building stock.

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8 hours ago, NYCLT said:

Thanks for the input guys just a few questions from a novice:

Can you provide some input on this - people put down for condos that were never built and didn't get that back?

Is this to say that the "suburb" craze hit late for us comparatively to other cities so we might not need to build crazy freeways to account for them ala Atlanta, Houston, etc.?

More that, when it hit us, a lot of land was already fully built out, so political will for eminent domain and greenfield development was less powerful than the property owners who already live there; plus, by the time Charlotte really got going, a lot of funds had already dried up because lessons were (slowly) being learned. I am hopeful that will help Charlotte densify and improve transit as we grow instead of following the paths of Atlanta, Houston, and LA.

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The concept of "municifying" the near-in areas to Charlotte never happened. Mecklenburg County has 6 smaller municipalities and they are all from long, long ago. No newer towns were created which would have been resistant to the change and annexation and smooth expansion of service throughout the county. St. Louis County Missouri has 90. Cuyahoga, Ohio (Cleveland) has 38. Broward, County Florida (Ft. Lauderdale) 30. Dallas County has 30. You get the idea.

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On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 10:06 AM, asthasr said:

More that, when it hit us, a lot of land was already fully built out, so political will for eminent domain and greenfield development was less powerful than the property owners who already live there; plus, by the time Charlotte really got going, a lot of funds had already dried up because lessons were (slowly) being learned. I am hopeful that will help Charlotte densify and improve transit as we grow instead of following the paths of Atlanta, Houston, and LA.

Are you saying that Charlotte lacks the political will to take people's property away from them ?

 

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19 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

You are aware of Charlotte's history right? http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article66934337.html

The areas shown  had no nice homes nor were they safe at all after dark. Sees as if the article is trying to sugar coat reality. The nicest area around that time was University  Park. That was about it. 

Edited by caterpillar2

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I personally have no problem with eminent domain. What I do have a problem with is when it's only used against the poor. 

 

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30 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

I personally have no problem with eminent domain. What I do have a problem with is when it's only used against the poor. 

 

So, you'd feel better about stealing people's property if it applies across the board ?

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1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

  Would it be ok for a wall? For a pipeline? 

Don't agree with that either.

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On 7/13/2017 at 10:22 AM, grodney said:

13 months now since Alvin Austin agreed with me that we need a crosswalk from Latta Arcade across Tryon, and said "Staff lets make this happen before someone gets hurt.".  Angela Berry from CDOT said, at the time, they were current evaluating it.

Anybody have any info on plans, if any?

 

Yes. The City is going to extend the curb on Church Street to permanently reduce the number of lanes to two. The design will essentially "mirror" the curb extension on the park side of the street and include a few more along the way. No parking is planned on that side of the street right now, but it would be set up for it in the future. The space will provide vehicle loading zones (this is primarily to serve Brevard Court). The City is working with the 300 South Tryon developer to modify their plans, so you'll probably see that go in first. The City's portion of the work will come a little later. The crosswalk will be made permanent using the standard retroreflective thermoplastic instead of just white paint.

 

On 7/13/2017 at 9:19 PM, Owenorange said:

I have been a reader for some time but this is my first post. So not sure if this is the right topic, but some of the recent posts on our inventory of historical buildings got me curious. Like many on this board, I lament the loss of our urban core. I recently stumbled across this paper (link below) on Charlotte's history of development in the Center City and found it fascinating (and depressing). As far as I can tell, this was written in the early-mid 1980s. What is striking, is how many more historic buildings we lost after this was written. I had always thought the big purge was in the 70s but it continued (unabashedly it would seem) into the 90s. 

http://www.cmhpf.org/kids/neighborhoods/CenterCity.html

A couple of may favorite bits:

Nicknames for the Wards: First Ward = 'Mechanicsville', Second Ward = 'Logtown', for any enterprising entrepreneurs that need some ideas for bar names

[circa 1929] "Trade and Tryon were no longer the only commercial streets. Hundreds of small stores lined College and Church streets all the way from First Street to Sixth... One could walk four or more blocks from the Square in any direction and pass nothing but businesses. The Center City was bustling like no time before or after"

And some examples of what we were still tearing down into the 1990s. Sad.

Lost the F.O. Hawley House where Trade becomes Elizabeth in 1990 for an office building
 
 


Lost the Masonic Temple (crap that is beautiful) in 1987. Wachovia tore this one down.
 
 

 

Great first post! I'm going to flag this article to read later.

On 7/13/2017 at 11:17 PM, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

To add to the rant...

 

I was in town last weekend and I left unconvinced that Charlotte can even do PED. Camden Galley had the best damn opportunity, and I watched it be built with that 30 foot setback. I was giddy to think they were going to put in a strip of outdoor seating, and I mean giddy. Then I found myself leaving Pop the Top with[mention=29263]Jayvee[/mention] and tripping over a stupid useless planter. Planters look pretty, but giving people a spot to mix and mingle on nice days adds vibe, flowers don't. I'd be okay with my inability to walk 3 abreast if it was because of a patio. A planter box, I'm less forgiving.

While I generally agree with your point, it's important to note that the issue of creating good pedestrian spaces is complicated for many reasons. Notably, there are different ordinances at work that individually make a lot of sense, but when combined don't do a great job of creating good urban spaces. Namely, the Tree Ordinance is responsibly for the lack of tree wells and the stupid planters you see everywhere. (Note: not all planters are stupid -when done well they are a great thing).

 

2 hours ago, elrodvt said:

I personally have no problem with eminent domain. What I do have a problem with is when it's only used against the poor. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Dale said:

So, you'd feel better about stealing people's property if it applies across the board ?

Point of clarification:

Eminent domain is in no way "stealing" property. Eminent domain is simply "the right of a government or its agent to expropriate private property for public use, with payment of compensation." The compensation part is the key word. Even in during urban renewal, people were paid for their land. The ability to buy land for public projects is very important to the evolution of cities, especially when it comes to building street networks in this day and age.

For what it's worth, I don't believe we should lament the loss of the buildings of old Brooklyn. While it's clear that there were a few gems, they were mainly slums and were pretty awful places. The odds are even if Independence had never been built, most of those old houses wouldn't be around today simply because they lacked value and long-term structural stability (and plumbing, A/C, electricity, etc). Even today we want to tear down "the projects" in other parts of the city to build better homes for the people who live there. 

We should, however, lament the destruction of community and people's lives just to build a highway. That, to me, is the tragic part of urban renewal. The trade-off wasn't worth it, but it's what we have to deal with today. What's worse, is that some people were relocated multiple times with Independence destroying Brooklyn and forcing people to relocate to Greenville, Washington Heights, and Lincoln Heights. Then, the Northeastern Freeway (now called Brookshire) came along and destroyed parts of those same neighborhoods.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Spartan said:

Yes. The City is going to extend the curb on Church Street to permanently reduce the number of lanes to two. The design will essentially "mirror" the curb extension on the park side of the street and include a few more along the way. No parking is planned on that side of the street right now, but it would be set up for it in the future. The space will provide vehicle loading zones (this is primarily to serve Brevard Court). The City is working with the 300 South Tryon developer to modify their plans, so you'll probably see that go in first. The City's portion of the work will come a little later. The crosswalk will be made permanent using the standard retroreflective thermoplastic instead of just white paint.

 

Great first post! I'm going to flag this article to read later.

While I generally agree with your point, it's important to note that the issue of creating good pedestrian spaces is complicated for many reasons. Notably, there are different ordinances at work that individually make a lot of sense, but when combined don't do a great job of creating good urban spaces. Namely, the Tree Ordinance is responsibly for the lack of tree wells and the stupid planters you see everywhere. (Note: not all planters are stupid -when done well they are a great thing).

 

 

Point of clarification:

Eminent domain is in no way "stealing" property. Eminent domain is simply "the right of a government or its agent to expropriate private property for public use, with payment of compensation." The compensation part is the key word. Even in during urban renewal, people were paid for their land. The ability to buy land for public projects is very important to the evolution of cities, especially when it comes to building street networks in this day and age.

For what it's worth, I don't believe we should lament the loss of the buildings of old Brooklyn. While it's clear that there were a few gems, they were mainly slums and were pretty awful places. The odds are even if Independence had never been built, most of those old houses wouldn't be around today simply because they lacked value and long-term structural stability (and plumbing, A/C, electricity, etc). Even today we want to tear down "the projects" in other parts of the city to build better homes for the people who live there. 

We should, however, lament the destruction of community and people's lives just to build a highway. That, to me, is the tragic part of urban renewal. The trade-off wasn't worth it, but it's what we have to deal with today. What's worse, is that some people were relocated multiple times with Independence destroying Brooklyn and forcing people to relocate to Greenville, Washington Heights, and Lincoln Heights. Then, the Northeastern Freeway (now called Brookshire) came along and destroyed parts of those same neighborhoods.

 

 

So it seems as if I can break in and expropriate my neighbor's belongings as long as it's good for the larger neighborhood.

I weep for my generation.

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10 hours ago, Dale said:

So it seems as if I can break in and expropriate my neighbor's belongings as long as it's good for the larger neighborhood.

I weep for my generation.

I'm only telling you how the Supreme Court of the United States views the matter. Feel free to take it up with them, but I'm willing to bet you've benefited from it (as we all have).

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How would we have any schools, fire stations, police stations, roads, power lines, sewage, or lakes if the government didn't have imminent domain? Yes is it a very scary concept when taken out of context but it's completely necessary for society to function well.

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On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 10:59 PM, elrodvt said:

You're being silly. 

^ Not the strongest counter-argument I've ever seen.

14 hours ago, Nick2 said:

How would we have any schools, fire stations, police stations, roads, power lines, sewage, or lakes if the government didn't have imminent domain? Yes is it a very scary concept when taken out of context but it's completely necessary for society to function well.

I could pick this apart systematically, but how often do you hear about cops preventing home invasions ?

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