Misc. Uptown Projects/News

[jednc]

By the time they make their way to Charlotte, H&M will have gone the way of American Apparel and be on the downward trend.

In my opinion that's already happened. If this were 2006...maybe.

[Guest]

In my opinion that's already happened. If this were 2006...maybe.

H&M is very much so trending upwards, and probably will not suffer the same way as American Apparel. Because its not made in America, there is a slightly lower price point, and larger product offering. Honestly this is a completely different brand, and cannot be compared...

As far as why they are not in Charlotte... We don't have the large vacant spaces in SouthPark that Hanes Mall and Crabtree have to accommodate an H&M sized store. It is my belief that Charlotte will get H&M when the Maersk site, Ashley Park Development or the Urban Target Project accross Fairview are completed. H&M tends to be on the large size, and it would be a great anchor for any of these new developments.

[DigitalSky]

H&M and American Apparel are two different animals. I agree with Niblet that H&M is still seeking the 'perfect SouthPark location' just as Whole Foods was doing... whether it be in the mall or around the mall... I'm sure ideally they would have liked to have been in the mall but now they will take what they can get be it the Maersk site or what have you.

[Rufus]

I think H&M's retail location is derived from the existing locations of major retail. Think about it, H&M has large urban stores in cities that have great urban forms. New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland have downtown locations (of which seems to be the dream of many on here). H&M also has large mall stores in suburban locations, Raleigh, Atlanta, Houston, etc...which explains why H&M chose Hanes Mall, one of the largest malls in the state along major interstate.

I personally think that if Charlotteans travel well to the existing H&Ms, and if leaders push strong enough for an Uptown location, H&M would be chomping at the bit to do so. But there has to be a push for it to locate somewhere other than a mall. And that pushing has to come with fierce marketing that Uptown is ripe for retail like that vs more restaurants. Uptown should be marketed as a destination for people looking to spend a couple hours there, not just people looking to go to a show and dinner. People go to New York to do both almost exclusively, whereas Charlotte has people only going to Uptown for a night on the town.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Rufus

[HopHead]

I'm not much of a shopping snob or whatever you want to call it, but putting an H&M in uptown would be as much of a catalyst to retail in uptown as an Apple store or Nordstroms would be. I agree with others that it's appalling that one in not in Charlotte. Then again it took us 5 years longer than anyone else to land a Whole Foods.

[Guest]

I'm not much of a shopping snob or whatever you want to call it, but putting an H&M in uptown would be as much of a catalyst to retail in uptown as an Apple store or Nordstroms would be. I agree with others that it's appalling that one in not in Charlotte. Then again it took us 5 years longer than anyone else to land a Whole Foods.

But yet there is a laundry list of things that Charlotte got first in NC, the South, and the USA (outside NY)! I cannot understand Whole Foods and H&M!

[Temeteron]

I think H&M, along with many other retailers are looking for the right location and timing. Most retailers like to open their first location with a bang usually in SouthPark. They want to make a good first impression. I think uptown can easily accomodate stores like H&M, Apple, Barnes & Noble, Brooks Brothers, and even a Williams-Sonoma (afterall there is a johnson & wales right down the street, this is supposed to be a culinary city). But what I think is essential is to have a dept. store open (Belk would be the best candidate and most likely). If Belk opens in uptown then it would definitely help other retailers feel "comfortable and confident" about opening an uptown location vs. SouthPark. We need more retail uptown! Come on Already!

[mallguy]

I could see a Belk opening at the Midtown development- has anything moved into the old Expo Design Center space?

Too bad the small uptown Belk just closed a few years ago, but I don't think it had much of an impact, open or closed.

[101_ce]

I could see a Belk opening at the Midtown development- has anything moved into the old Expo Design Center space?

Too bad the small uptown Belk just closed a few years ago, but I don't think it had much of an impact, open or closed.

I could definitely see Belk coming back, but I don't want them to open a huge store. SouthPark has been their flagship store for years and I don't think there's any way they would be allowed to carry those brands (Theory, Ferragamo, St. John, etc) there. Now a store like Northlake could work, but not like SouthPark. A 3/4 story 200,000 square foot store would be ideal.

Edited July 2, 2011 by ct36

[Rufus]

I agree. I would love to see Belk take the helm and set up in Uptown, particularly the 300 South Tryon plot. Right on the main drag would provide great visibility and the need to maybe attract more than residents of Uptown. But, a Southpark-like store isn't necessary because it only takes one major retailer to get the ball running. Something that can cater to the demographics, though, would have to be a must.

[mallguy]

Does Belk have any downtown stores left? It closed the one in Birmingham, and the tiny one at Bank of America Plaza closed around the same time.

I would think that a small Saks would have worked uptown, but Saks seems to have exited the "small downtown store" line as well, with the one in Charleston and a few others closing.

Anyone left?

[101_ce]

Does Belk have any downtown stores left? It closed the one in Birmingham, and the tiny one at Bank of America Plaza closed around the same time.

I would think that a small Saks would have worked uptown, but Saks seems to have exited the "small downtown store" line as well, with the one in Charleston and a few others closing.

Anyone left?

I'm pretty sure they don't anymore.

[southslider]

Belk would fit inside the former Home Depot Expo space under Target in the Metropolitan.

[nashbill]

I doubt Belk would even consider it. They have moved into the Nashville area and all there new stores are just like Kohl's. Not bad, just nothing special. They have one store in a mall and that is because it was a Parisian.

[mad_park]

Belk would fit inside the former Home Depot Expo space under Target in the Metropolitan.

Wouldn't that just cannibalize sales from the Southpark store?

[New Name]

Wouldn't that just cannibalize sales from the Southpark store?

Count one vote for "no." I hate going to South Park. But I also hate malls. When birthdays and Christmas comes around, I go to the mall begrudgingly. But I'd much rather go into the city to shop.

[Norm2]

The Metropolitan could possibly subdivide that giant Home Depot space into smaller spaces and maybe make it a mini-mall under Target. Just an idea.....

[DigitalSky]

You know I was thinking that too^... it really is hard to figure out what could completely fill that space aside from Kohl's or a BJ's/Costco/Sam's. Belk IMO would work better in an uptown location if they were to locate in the area rather than under Target at Midtown.

[southslider]

I think the problem with an Uptown location for Belk is that there is still not enough daytime and/or resident population within walking distance to make a truly urban store with paid parking work. For example, look at the former Reid's in Seventh Street. In contrast, Midtown has abundant, free parking, is a short drive of more resident population with strong incomes, yet accessible by foot, bike or bus from Uptown and surrounding neighborhoods.

[Guest]

I think the problem with an Uptown location for Belk is that there is still not enough daytime and/or resident population within walking distance to make a truly urban store with paid parking work. For example, look at the former Reid's in Seventh Street. In contrast, Midtown has abundant, free parking, is a short drive of more resident population with strong incomes, yet accessible by foot, bike or bus from Uptown and surrounding neighborhoods.

Most can agree that midtown is best, but we would have to build a spot for Belk, because Belk is not going to include itself in a 130k space on a single floor below a target masked 67% by a parking garage, its just not going to happen. If we were to split it in two, with a belk on the 277 side, giving it 75-90k sq. feet, with 40-55k of space for another tenant it might work. This all might not be possible however because splitting this building up might be possible given the loading dock situation...

[Norm2]

In my opinion, if thousands of people are willing to pay for parking to go spend money at bars and clubs uptown, then people are willing to spend money on parking to go shopping in uptown as well. If Southpark Mall closed and all the stores moved uptown, you better bet that people would go to those stores in droves. That will not happen though. Southpark and even Northlake Mall has ruined chances for retail in uptown.

[101_ce]

In my opinion, if thousands of people are willing to pay for parking to go spend money at bars and clubs uptown, then people are willing to spend money on parking to go shopping in uptown as well. If Southpark Mall closed and all the stores moved uptown, you better bet that people would go to those stores in droves. That will not happen though. Southpark and even Northlake Mall has ruined chances for retail in uptown.

I think they would! When I went by the Metropolitan once, it wasn't too busy though. But it was just a Saturday at lunch time, and SouthPark was pretty empty too. It is the premier shopping destination in the Carolinas, and I am doubtful that will change. I would definitely like to see more retail uptown. For one reason is because SouthPark isn't huge and can't hold everything. Just like H&M. I wouldn't want to see one there, and there isn't enough room. So if they come to Charlotte it will be Northlake or uptown. I don't think Belk should open in uptown though. Sure, it would be nice, but the proximately to the SouthPark store is too close, and it is the flagship store anyway.

Edited July 6, 2011 by ct36

[101_ce]

I doubt Belk would even consider it. They have moved into the Nashville area and all there new stores are just like Kohl's. Not bad, just nothing special. They have one store in a mall and that is because it was a Parisian.

Well Belk is much nicer in NC, especially at the Charlotte flagship. Since Nashville is a smaller city, I am willing to bet Belk at SouthPark will be on par with the new Nordstrom at Green Hills. Even my store in Asheville has brands such as Michael Kors, Lacoste, Vince Camuto, Bobbi Brown, Eileen Fisher, etc.

[Urbanity]

I believe the subject of a department store being brought back downtown* was discussed at a publicized round-table with Hugh McColl and other city movers and the key point that came out is that retail studies show you need at least 100,000 people actively inside a certain square mile radius for the area to support a department store. Downtown* does not have that.

Now Midtown and the Metropolitan area in particular might be able to support something approaching a department store. I hate the idea of a mini mall at the old Home Depot space but I do think splitting the space up into at least two stores would be a good idea. Something like an Old Navy and a container store could work,

It's also worth keep an eye on the plots around the Metropolitan development. I do believe that we will see earth moving in the next few years on a few building projects, most of which would include retail. In many ways, Midtown with it's proximity to Elizabeth and Dilworth is poised to become a very urban walkable shopping district once a lot of infill is completed.

* Edit: I have decided that I will call the area inside the 277 downtown for now on regardless of branding to the contrary. I'll pimp my own blog post here if you want my long rant.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Urbanity

[krazeeboi]

In my opinion, if thousands of people are willing to pay for parking to go spend money at bars and clubs uptown, then people are willing to spend money on parking to go shopping in uptown as well.

But you're talking about two totally different demographics here. Young people are more attracted to urban areas for socialization purposes. Shopping, by contrast, must appeal to a much wider demographic, many of whom are not willing to pay for parking or even patronize uptown to begin with.

If Southpark Mall closed and all the stores moved uptown, you better bet that people would go to those stores in droves. That will not happen though. Southpark and even Northlake Mall has ruined chances for retail in uptown.

Retail follows rooftops. The mall isn't going to shut down unless the neighborhood becomes a ghost town and barring something very major and unforseen, that's not going to happen.