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32 minutes ago, Dale said:

Yeah, but even Austin is becoming less weird.

Uptown Charlotte vs. Downtown Austin is interesting. Downtown Austin is really a residential neighborhood whereas Uptown Charlotte is a massive employment center. I think that leads to Austin having the shopping, retail, nightlife, etc... for residents and Uptown catering to the massive amount of workers. This is interesting:

Of the 15 tallest buildings in Austin:
- 9 are residential
- 4 are office
- 1 is a hotel

Of the 15 tallest buildings in Charlotte: 
- 12 are office
- 3 are residential

Massive corporation aren't weird. They are bland. Charlotte's city center is dominated by major employers and can feel like a tall office park. You aren't going to have a nightclub or fun bar on the ground floor of a building with a bank name. Downtown Austin isn't the main job center in the area so it really functions as a residential neighborhood with tall condo buildings at the foot of a college campus. In fact, Austin is probably more suburban than us as far as where people work as most of their big employers are on the outskirts in tech office parks / campuses on tons of acres. If you drive out to the Dell, Samsung, or IBM campus in Austin... it is just as boring as being in a Wells Fargo building in Uptown. Most major companies aren't "funky" and in Charlotte, those major corporations have a heavy presence in our city center, whereas in Austin, the corporations are in the burbs and the buildings reflect people more than companies.

Edited by CLT2014
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10 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Uptown Charlotte vs. Downtown Austin is interesting. Downtown Austin is really a residential neighborhood whereas Uptown Charlotte is a massive employment center. I think that leads to Austin having the shopping, retail, nightlife, etc... for residents and Uptown catering to the massive amount of workers. This is interesting:

Of the 15 tallest buildings in Austin:
- 9 are residential
- 4 are office
- 1 is a hotel

Of the 15 tallest buildings in Charlotte: 
- 12 are office
- 3 are residential

Massive corporation aren't weird. They are bland. Charlotte's city center is dominated by major employers and can feel like a tall office park. You aren't going to have a nightclub or fun bar on the ground floor of a building with a bank name. Downtown Austin isn't the main job center in the area so it really functions as a residential neighborhood with tall condo buildings at the foot of a college campus. In fact, Austin is probably more suburban than us as far as where people work as most of their big employers are on the outskirts in tech office parks / campuses on tons of acres. If you drive out to the Dell, Samsung, or IBM campus in Austin... it is just as boring as being in a Wells Fargo building in Uptown. Most major companies aren't "funky" and in Charlotte, those major corporations have a heavy presence in our city center, whereas in Austin, the corporations are in the burbs and the buildings reflect people more than companies.

Although I'm not so sure that Austin has more retail than Charlotte. Apart from the job growth, I'm not sure about Austin's appeal for the urbanist.

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2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

If all the shops were closed in Overstreet, I think a tube system would still have its purpose, just without shops. For example, when I worked at 1BAC, I would use the Overstreet mall path in the middle of the summer to get to Latta Arcade or the Green and enjoy the different restaurant scene if I had the time. However, if I had to walk outside in August in the humidity all the way to Latta, I wouldn't be able to do it. I can't come back to the office after lunch dripping in sweat and looking like a mess before a presentation. Some people... maybe. But for most people their appearance matters at work, especially the Uptown bank scene. 

Without the Overstreet Mall, at least during the summer, people would further be segmented to their little corner of Uptown. You won't see BofA people and Wells people walking across town, they'll just go to the place on their ground level and spend as little time outside as possible.

1- I don't disagree that a tube system without shops might have some merit when a company takes up multiple adjacent office towers. I do think that the overall system should be broken up (mainly at Trade St) over time.

2- I walk to lunch all the time in all month of the year. It's not that bad. You probably would see more people staying closer to their office, but I also think you'd have more options to choose from close by.

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Yeah, tons of government work and University of Texas is right at the doorstep of downtown. My point was, new development in downtown Austin isn't dominated towards catering to big boring corporate clients. Their new development and skyscrapers in downtown have tended to be residential (which equals people on the street on weekends too), whereas our development has tended to be more and more office for big corporate clients. Corporate clients = boring. Hence you end up with the Observer site. A nice, safe, conservative building for a bank / corporate client. In Austin, you might have ended up with something more focused on residential and a little bit less "bank" like. 

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Think of Austin has a much larger Raleigh Durham the economy is based on government, education and tech. And tech just like in Raleigh in spread all over the place in Austin and that is one of the reasons their traffic is HORRIBLE. My friends love to come here from there and marvel at our highways. Austin thought if it did not build roads people would not come well it backfired and they came away. The MOPAC and I-35 2 major north south freeways are choked and very little light rail except for one commuter rail line from northern suburbs. Apple's huge campus in Austin is way far north of downtown. The tech workers love to live downtown but many commute out to jobs either north or south. Charlotte's economy on the other hand is just like Dallas's transportation, finance, distribution, corporate HQs. 

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2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Yeah, tons of government work and University of Texas is right at the doorstep of downtown. My point was, new development in downtown Austin isn't dominated towards catering to big boring corporate clients. Their new development and skyscrapers in downtown have tended to be residential (which equals people on the street on weekends too), whereas our development has tended to be more and more office for big corporate clients. Corporate clients = boring. Hence you end up with the Observer site. A nice, safe, conservative building for a bank / corporate client. In Austin, you might have ended up with something more focused on residential and a little bit less "bank" like. 

I think that Uptown's core being solid as it is will eventually lead to taller more dense residential just outside 277 and 77. West Trade, Graham, Morehead from Kings to Freedom, and all the parcels in between. Not to mention Midtown. That's a another topic of course. A lot of potential for the future city of Charlotte... Depending on how soon all the Stonewall projects are rolling visually, maybe a solid start in the next 5 to 10 years? I'm willing to bet there will be at least two 200's dotted out there.

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3 hours ago, NY+SC=NC said:

I think that Uptown's core being solid as it is will eventually lead to taller more dense residential just outside 277 and 77. West Trade, Graham, Morehead from Kings to Freedom, and all the parcels in between. Not to mention Midtown. That's a another topic of course. A lot of potential for the future city of Charlotte... Depending on how soon all the Stonewall projects are rolling visually, maybe a solid start in the next 5 to 10 years? I'm willing to bet there will be at least two 200's dotted out there.

Midtown's starting to feel pretty built up. There aren't a whole lot of parcels left outside of that big Pappas project. There's always Elizabeth... Speaking of which, now that Levine is building / has built more stuff should Grubb be receiving more scorn from this forum? This is the last thing I could find on them.

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7 minutes ago, Vitamin_N said:

Midtown's starting to feel pretty built up. There aren't a whole lot of parcels left outside of that big Pappas project. There's always Elizabeth... Speaking of which, now that Levine is building / has built more stuff should Grubb be receiving more scorn from this forum? This is the last thing I could find on them.

Grubb receives just as much scorn as Levine on this site. Pretty sure we consider them one in the same. Not sure what Levine has built though... a parking deck and some concrete forms for apartments... (Minus the Julien)

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On 2/14/2017 at 4:33 PM, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Grubb receives just as much scorn as Levine on this site. Pretty sure we consider them one in the same. Not sure what Levine has built though... a parking deck and some concrete forms for apartments... (Minus the Julien)

Wow... really? I promise both Levine and Grubb seem like household names, (atleast in this area) maybe also just to me lol. But, seriously now that you've mentioned it, what has Levine built?

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9 minutes ago, NY+SC=NC said:

 But, seriously now that you've mentioned it, what has Levine built?

The Julien in Plaza Midwood, a parking deck uptown, and a bunch of commerical/industrial parks in the region, one of which just sold for a $75M profit in Miami.

Clay grubb has been fairly prolific, just not with the massive amount of land he owns in Elizabeth.

http://www.grubbproperties.com/themes/grubb/shared/images/Past Projects-Development and Redevelopment_AUG.pdf

 

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3 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

The Julien in Plaza Midwood, a parking deck uptown, and a bunch of commerical/industrial parks in the region, one of which just sold for a $75M profit in Miami.

I expected commercial/industrial parks. The Julien fits the trend and the deck is well structured I suppose. Safe track record in that regard. 

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50 minutes ago, Merthecat said:

I stumbled across this video of possible growth in Charlotte.  I'm not sure if it's been posted here before (probably), but the article was written recently so I thought I'd share it:

http://www.archdaily.com/805291/watch-how-urban-growth-can-dramatically-change-the-landscape-of-a-city

I love how it considers the future where cities are abandoned and left to nature.

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2 hours ago, Merthecat said:

I stumbled across this video of possible growth in Charlotte.  I'm not sure if it's been posted here before (probably), but the article was written recently so I thought I'd share it:

 

http://www.archdaily.com/805291/watch-how-urban-growth-can-dramatically-change-the-landscape-of-a-city

Love how Bank of China's tower lands in the Gold District HA! 

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On 2/10/2017 at 10:10 PM, Nick2 said:

I've said it before but I love the overstreet mall. It's just another level (literally! lol) to Uptown. Everyone I've taken to Charlotte has thought it was the coolest thing ever when I showed them. However, it was always during business hours that we went so you could really experience the hustle and bustle of it at prime time.

Yeah.  I maintain that Overstreet is a big asset, particularly for the business communities.

You have a situation in Charlotte where 4x as many people work Uptown as live there.  Current construction aside, most of those residential areas aren't exactly close to the main part of Uptown either.  And THAT is the main reason Uptown doesn't have robust retail on nights/weekends.  There are plenty of places NOT in Overstreet that have reduced hours or are closed during nights and weekends.

When you see the increase in residential towers and BLE, maybe the economics for these businesses change.

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I think this would be relevant to post here: I visited downtown Raleigh yesterday after attending an auto show nearby and I was very pleasantly surprised. (I visit Raleigh often actually, but admit I have not spent much time downtown) The overall retail and restaurant scene was very, what I'd call organic, compared to Charlotte. You could tell that some of these restaurants had been there for years, show me a restaurant in Uptown that's been there since 1930, I can't think of one. Many of their historic buildings were also still standing, especially along Fayetteville Street, their version of Tryon, except with wide and consistent sidewalks, and room for parking and bike lanes. The restaurant we ate in was one of two inside a former Piggly Wiggly grocery store, and their transit center in built into the bottom floor of a parking garage, not freestanding like the CTC. There were convenience stores and even, a small locally owned grocery store that you could tell had been there for a long time. I noted a Subway that was still open despite being late, providing more affordable eats than just high end restaurants and bars. And keep in mind all of these observations were taken within the span of a few blocks, not the entirety of downtown.  

I know some people on here are rather familiar with Raleigh and this is no news to them, but Charlotte could really take a page out of Raleigh's book, I know we cannot rebuild what we tore down, but the good spread of restaurants and shops, compared to Charlotte's clusters (think Epicenter) were really nice and allowed for a more enjoyable walk. I also felt like the blocks were smaller in Raleigh, or at least the streetscape made it seem that way. I'm not really trying to make any specific point with this post, but overall quite frankly I feel a bit jealous and wonder what massive center city we could have if Charlotte had not been so quick with the wrecking ball. 

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I for one like what Charlotte is becoming. It is twice the size of Raleigh and has a totally different culture. We are banking and finance mostly and Raleigh is universities and the capitol. Raleigh is a nice city for newcomers and has a great future, but I don't think that Charlotte needs to look at Raleigh as a model. Comparing Charlotte to Raleigh is like comparing Charlotte to Atlanta. They have different functions and characters. At one time downtown Charlotte was bustling with shoppers at the many retail stores but malls happened like in most places. We are adjusting with the advantage of being one of the fastest growing large cities in the U.S.

 

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9 hours ago, nakers2 said:

I know some people on here are rather familiar with Raleigh and this is no news to them, but Charlotte could really take a page out of Raleigh's book, I know we cannot rebuild what we tore down, but the good spread of restaurants and shops, compared to Charlotte's clusters (think Epicenter) were really nice and allowed for a more enjoyable walk.

I just spend two days in Raleigh and came away with a new appreciation for our shiny, energetic downtown. They may have better universities, "culture", etc. but a better downtown, no way. Also, we have what, 10 cranes right now compared to their zero? The divide will continue to grow.

Plus you don't have to worry about running into Phil Berger in uptown Charlotte.

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I grew up near Raleigh and spend a fair amount of time there when I go to visit family. Each time I am impressed with all the things nakers2 mentions, especially the retail boutiques and the "average" quality of any given restaurant or bar downtown, which I find to be a little higher than Charlotte's. However when I spend more than 2 days there I quickly start to appreciate our greater variety of options again, and our bigger assortment of cool neighborhoods outside of downtown. 

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I grew up near Raleigh and spend a fair amount of time there when I go to visit family. Each time I am impressed with all the things nakers2 mentions, especially the retail boutiques and the "average" quality of any given restaurant or bar downtown, which I find to be a little higher than Charlotte's. However when I spend more than 2 days there I quickly start to appreciate our greater variety of options again, and our bigger assortment of cool neighborhoods outside of downtown. 

Yea I always ask Raleigh people, what are the NoDa and Plaza Midwood of Raleigh, and usually don't get much of a response. The southend of Raleigh is clearly Glenwood South, but even it is less robust than its charlotte counterpart.


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37 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:


Yea I always ask Raleigh people, what are the NoDa and Plaza Midwood of Raleigh, and usually don't get much of a response. The southend of Raleigh is clearly Glenwood South, but even it is less robust than its charlotte counterpart.


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Having grown up in Raleigh, this isn't that hard to answer. 

Glenwood South is similar to South End

Five Points reminds me of PM

Hillsborough St is sort of like NoDa, although it has changed quite a bit of its character. 

Mordecai and Boylan Heights are like Dilworth and Elizabeth

North Hills is like South Park

 

However I would agree that Raleigh and Charlotte are two vastly different cities, growing up in two distinct ways. Charlotte is cranes, towers, booms. Raleigh is mid-scale, still very much spreading outward, a bit tamer than Charlotte (although that is not always a good thing). Raleigh also developed different because it didn't have interstates slicing through parts of the city. Only until recently was Raleigh even a large city. Charlotte has been the largest city in the state since 1900, or close to that. Also the industries that drove each city were quite different. Raleigh was alway government and universities. Charlotte started as a manufacturing hub, and then financial, and now energy and corporate dominance. It's actually quite amazing to see just how much history has played a part in how each city has developed. Quite luck too to have so many types of cities in the state that are each distinct in how they have grown and continue to grow. 

 

I could go on and on about this, but I think that is enough for my 2 cents haha.

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