Misc. Uptown Projects/News

[KJHburg]

I have been saying this for a long time with the vacant storefront space uptown and of course Raleigh is doing it.   Their downtown advocacy group is much more on top of things there.

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/triangle-sandhills/news/2021/12/10/a-place-to-call-their-own

[APS89294]

21 hours ago, go_vertical said:

Can YOU not take other people having an opinion about your opinion?  Who has the thin skin here? 

I'll take that as a no.

Regardless....Charlotte is a very nice city to live in. Having been from Portland, Maine and lived in Charlotte, only to now reside in Gastonia. But it's just a nice city to live in; not to go out of ones way to visit. Especially uptown. I am excited about North Tryon becoming a go to spot for development, but just worried it'll be the same ole thing if you know what I mean.

Edited December 18, 2021 by APS89294

[RANYC]

Is there anything we can do with blocks like this right in the core of Uptown?

Walked it today - a very hostile environment for pedestrians...this stretch of 4th street in the pic screams:

• machine over man
• stay in your car
• upright, bi-pedalism has nothing to do with man's ingenuity and progress 
• walkers suck
• run em over
• being fit is elitist
• insulate yourself
• a constant threat of mugging forces us to discourage walking in our street designs
• covid - the excuse workers needed to permanently escape this perversion of urbanity
• don't even think of strolling, meeting someone new, or streetscape serendipity 
• nothing says incubator like a concrete stack of cars
• those who advocate for uptown don't actually tread its streets and peruse its pathways, they drone-shot its skyline for social media

Edited December 18, 2021 by RANYC

[atlrvr]

Pretty certain if the garage is ever redeveloped, the new building will have to meet current center city streetscape standards.  Not sure what it is for this block, but probably at least 10' (it's likely higher than that) and require street trees.

Hard to tell exactly, but it looks like 7' today.

Also, the new development would require certain % retail, and > 50% transparent (glass) facade for ground floor I believe.

So, there are corrective actions for redevelopment, but nothing to require retrofitting or demolition of offending structures.

[Nick2]

6 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

Pretty certain if the garage is ever redeveloped, the new building will have to meet current center city streetscape standards.  Not sure what it is for this block, but probably at least 10' (it's likely higher than that) and require street trees.

Hard to tell exactly, but it looks like 7' today.

Also, the new development would require certain % retail, and > 50% transparent (glass) facade for ground floor I believe.

So, there are corrective actions for redevelopment, but nothing to require retrofitting or demolition of offending structures.

Thank you for sharing. The future is bright for a lot of these dead stretches of street.

[RANYC]

15 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

Pretty certain if the garage is ever redeveloped, the new building will have to meet current center city streetscape standards.  Not sure what it is for this block, but probably at least 10' (it's likely higher than that) and require street trees.

Hard to tell exactly, but it looks like 7' today.

Also, the new development would require certain % retail, and > 50% transparent (glass) facade for ground floor I believe.

So, there are corrective actions for redevelopment, but nothing to require retrofitting or demolition of offending structures.

Do you think it's feasible to make 4th street a 2-way street, which might then catalyze a retrofitting?

[norm21499]

44 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Do you think it's feasible to make 4th street a 2-way street, which might then catalyze a retrofitting?

4th Street is a work horse street and will not become a two way street, at least in my lifetime. I believe that 3rd, 4th, College and Church are considered to be the main arteries for carrying traffic from 277 and other roads into Uptown for commuters. I may need to include 5th and 6th in this list as well.

[RANYC]

10 hours ago, norm21499 said:

4th Street is a work horse street and will not become a two way street, at least in my lifetime. I believe that 3rd, 4th, College and Church are considered to be the main arteries for carrying traffic from 277 and other roads into Uptown for commuters. I may need to include 5th and 6th in this list as well.

That's the problem, IMO.  Too many "work horses" catering to commuters, and not enough attention to widespread pedestrian orientation.

By the way, 6th street appears to be changing somewhat since the road diet for protected bike lanes.

[tozmervo]

They are also workhorses in terms of deliveries, etc. Church, 3rd and 4th are effectively one lane roads during much of the work day with delivery trucks, construction vehicles, and standing cars blocking the curb lane.

[RANYC]

2 hours ago, tozmervo said:

They are also workhorses in terms of deliveries, etc. Church, 3rd and 4th are effectively one lane roads during much of the work day with delivery trucks, construction vehicles, and standing cars blocking the curb lane.

Fair point 

[atlrvr]

I've tried to make this point many times over the years here in different threads just to be shouted down by the same urban planning talking point.

I find 1-way streets far better as a pedestrian in an urban environment.

I'm going to be told that speeds on 1-way streets are greater than 2-way streets. Yep.  Agree.  There are other ways to slow traffic or insulate the pedestrian though.  Mistimed traffic lights.  Street parking.  Street trees.  Bike lanes. Bike racks. Etc etc.

I want to focus on the inevitable need to cross a street.  Crossing mid block is concern about 1 direction of traffic vs 2.  I personally find that substantial when waiting to cross 

At an intersection though, it's a much more dramatic difference.  1-way/1-way intersections, at any  intersection you need to be only concerned about 1 or 2 possible car movement (depending on part of intersection you cross).  In a 2-way/2-way intersection, every crossing you need to consider 4 possible car movements, which is not great in giving confidence to cross.

I'm familiar mostly with Boston since I lived in Back Bay and spent more time walking than driving, and streets like Newbury are much nicer to walk because at each intersection you can efficiently cross.  I personally find intersections like Camden and Park as creating far more anxiety for a pedestrian.

I'll rant again next year in a different thread 

[kermit]

3 hours ago, atlrvr said:

I've tried to make this point many times over the years here in different threads just to be shouted down by the same urban planning talking point.

I find 1-way streets far better as a pedestrian in an urban environment.

I'm going to be told that speeds on 1-way streets are greater than 2-way streets. Yep.  Agree.  There are other ways to slow traffic or insulate the pedestrian though.  Mistimed traffic lights.  Street parking.  Street trees.  Bike lanes. Bike racks. Etc etc.

I want to focus on the inevitable need to cross a street.  Crossing mid block is concern about 1 direction of traffic vs 2.  I personally find that substantial when waiting to cross 

At an intersection though, it's a much more dramatic difference.  1-way/1-way intersections, at any  intersection you need to be only concerned about 1 or 2 possible car movement (depending on part of intersection you cross).  In a 2-way/2-way intersection, every crossing you need to consider 4 possible car movements, which is not great in giving confidence to cross.

I'm familiar mostly with Boston since I lived in Back Bay and spent more time walking than driving, and streets like Newbury are much nicer to walk because at each intersection you can efficiently cross.  I personally find intersections like Camden and Park as creating far more anxiety for a pedestrian.

I'll rant again next year in a different thread 

I agree! The intersection of Camden and Tremont (at the rail trail) is exhibit 1 for me -- pedestrian crossings would be far more straightforward if Camden was 1 way (or completely closed to cars)

It does feel like Uptown’s one ways have less of a racetrack feel than other downtowns (Greensboro, Winston, parts of Durham, Raleigh) I think building height (and their shadows) and lot lines may be part of that (and street width of course).

Edited December 18, 2021 by kermit

[RANYC]

24 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

I've tried to make this point many times over the years here in different threads just to be shouted down by the same urban planning talking point.

I find 1-way streets far better as a pedestrian in an urban environment.

I'm going to be told that speeds on 1-way streets are greater than 2-way streets. Yep.  Agree.  There are other ways to slow traffic or insulate the pedestrian though.  Mistimed traffic lights.  Street parking.  Street trees.  Bike lanes. Bike racks. Etc etc.

I want to focus on the inevitable need to cross a street.  Crossing mid block is concern about 1 direction of traffic vs 2.  I personally find that substantial when waiting to cross 

At an intersection though, it's a much more dramatic difference.  1-way/1-way intersections, at any  intersection you need to be only concerned about 1 or 2 possible car movement (depending on part of intersection you cross).  In a 2-way/2-way intersection, every crossing you need to consider 4 possible car movements, which is not great in giving confidence to cross.

I'm familiar mostly with Boston since I lived in Back Bay and spent more time walking than driving, and streets like Newbury are much nicer to walk because at each intersection you can efficiently cross.  I personally find intersections like Camden and Park as creating far more anxiety for a pedestrian.

I'll rant again next year in a different thread 

No rant needed.  I see your point and it makes sense.  Seeing this for the first time.  You make valid points in scrutable language, no rant necessary.  
 

 

[j-man]

Any guesses on what will be planned with that huge sale of those 4+ acres in uptown that was just announced. 

[DMann]

I think all one way streets should be converted into 2 way period!!!

Fourth Street coming into town from Presbyterian is nuts as it approaches I-277

[JeanClt]

I think all one way streets should be converted into 2 way period!!!
Fourth Street coming into town from Presbyterian is nuts as it approaches I-277

“Nuts” doesn’t really say anything specific. It’s hard to understand why you would want something to change if you don’t say the issue. One-way streets have their advantages especially for pedestrians. If speeding is an issue, then other counter measures could be taken to slow speeds. Thinking as a pedestrian only worrying about one direction makes it easier and therefore safer to cross while providing higher capacity to carry more in the same amount of space of a two way street 4 lane street (4th St).

A quote from this article really resonates with that first sentence you typed, “‘One-ways bad, two-ways good’ is almost a tribal chant now, and it’s getting a little loud.”

You should maybe have a read. It’s an interesting read and may have things that you haven’t thought about before or known:

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/4/18/are-one-way-streets-really-that-bad

I didn’t know one-way streets were also referred to as couplets and an example would be 4th and 3rd. You will probably find other opinions on there too I saw that the author linked an article that explained why couplets/one-way streets are bad. I think they are more efficient and safer in certain circumstances. Two-way streets are not always the answer IMO.

[Madison Parkitect]

7 hours ago, j-man said:

Any guesses on what will be planned with that huge sale of those 4+ acres in uptown that was just announced. 

The Tepper sale? It's the first piece in his entertainment district assemblage.

[RANYC]

46 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

The Tepper sale? It's the first piece in his entertainment district assemblage.

Bizjournal cites someone close to the deal as saying that Tepper Sports viewed the lot price as favorable and decided to acquire it without imminent plans for it.

[KJHburg]

here are some more details:

""Carolina Panthers owner David Tepper this week purchased 4.6 acres at West Morehead and McNinch streets for $15.5 million, according to Mecklenburg County property records.  A spokesperson at Tepper Sports & Entertainment, the parent company of the NFL Panthers and MLS Charlotte FC, confirmed the land purchase but declined to disclose terms or plans.  A source with knowledge of the deal told CBJ that Tepper Sports viewed the sales price as attractive and bought the property without any imminent plans for development. The land is a couple of blocks from Bank of America Stadium, the Tepper Sports property that is home to the Panthers and Charlotte FC.  Tepper has been in discussions with Charlotte city government for the past two years about buying property and building an entertainment district near the stadium. ""

Carolina Panthers owner acquires land near NFL stadium - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

""According to the Mecklenburg County property deed, the land was owned by the Charlotte-based Blackmon Family LLC and sold to GT Real Estate Holdings LLC, which lists its address as 800 S. Mint St. — the Panthers’ address.""

[TheOneRJ]

It’s pretty evident this will eventually be used for the new stadium and/or the accompanying entertainment district he has alluded to many times now. 

[Madison Parkitect]

On 12/18/2021 at 8:50 PM, RANYC said:

Bizjournal cites someone close to the deal as saying that Tepper Sports viewed the lot price as favorable and decided to acquire it without imminent plans for it.

"Imminent" just depends on how long it takes the other property owners to sell to him. I know for a fact he's been doing early master planning studies for the entertainment district including that lot,

[Vitamin_N]

On 12/18/2021 at 11:16 AM, atlrvr said:

I want to focus on the inevitable need to cross a street.  Crossing mid block is concern about 1 direction of traffic vs 2.  I personally find that substantial when waiting to cross 

My wife almost got flattened when crossing South College mid-block one weekend when she was only looking in the oncoming traffic direction. Meanwhile somebody was going in reverse a surprisingly long distance on the other side of the street and he didn't see her and she wasn't paying attention to him. I had to run and grab her to keep her from walking into his path.

(If there are any Taleb fans here, I guess this would be a pedestrian black swan event.)

[TheRealClayton]

On 12/18/2021 at 8:50 PM, RANYC said:

Bizjournal cites someone close to the deal as saying that Tepper Sports viewed the lot price as favorable and decided to acquire it without imminent plans for it.

and that's just PR speak. They absolutely have plans for it.

Edited December 20, 2021 by TheRealClayton

[RANYC]

3 hours ago, Vitamin_N said:

My wife almost got flattened when crossing South College mid-block one weekend when she was only looking in the oncoming traffic direction. Meanwhile somebody was going in reverse a surprisingly long distance on the other side of the street and he didn't see her and she wasn't paying attention to him. I had to run and grab her to keep her from walking into his path.

(If there are any Taleb fans here, I guess this would be a pedestrian black swan event.)

That is horrifying, and sorry you had to endure that, but also happy you were able to prevent a catastrophe.  

2 hours ago, TheRealClayton said:

and that's just PR speak. They absolutely have plans for it.

what materializes first: new Tepper Entertainment District structures, or Brooklyn redevelopment structures?

[turbocraig]

The rezoning for Pipe & Foundry sailed through unanimously.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/development/article256685457.html

“Council members voted unanimously to approve the petition. There was no discussion at Monday afternoon’s zoning meeting. Charlotte Pipe and Foundry committed to a minimum of two acres of open space, which could increase depending on the size of the development. One acre would be “publicly accessible” and could include a park, athletic fields, bike paths and amphitheater, among other things, according to city staff.”