Misc. Uptown Projects/News

[KJHburg]

3 hours ago, RANYC said:

Do you have a hunch on Honeywell 2, or do you know for a fact that a new Honeywell Tower project is imminent or in active planning or active design?

I have knowledge there is talk of 2nd Honeywell tower and I heard it could be within the next year.  When Honeywell opened their first building they said it then too.  I think planning has begun for it yes. 

[kermit]

Pittsburgh is using $2.1 million in remaining American Rescue Plan funds to convert historic office buildings downtown into residential space. 

While Pittsburgh has lots of old office buildings that are probably much better suited for conversion than Charlotte has, this is certainly a strategy that could a) increase the supply of housing in an area that has the infrastructure to support it and b) would help to re-energize uptown. Don’t know if its practical in Charlotte but its certainly a laudable strategy. Our pandemic era inaction on uptown concerns me.

https://triblive.com/local/pittsburgh-looks-to-use-2-1m-to-convert-downtown-office-buildings-into-residential-space/

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by kermit

[RANYC]

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/07/18/inlivian-urban-atlantic-apartment-development.html

What's replacing Hall House...353 units built by partnership between Inlivian and Urban Atlantic.  Construction in early fall and opening in 2024.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by RANYC

[Blue_Devil]

5 minutes ago, RANYC said:

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/07/18/inlivian-urban-atlantic-apartment-development.html

What's replacing Hall House...353 units built by partnership between Inlivian and Urban Atlantic.  Construction in early fall and opening in 2024.

 

 

 

 

 

I am sad Hall House is going. Even sadder it’s a stick built 7 story building. But 350 units is great for uptown

[RANYC]

Just now, Blue_Devil said:

I am sad Hall House is going. Even sadder it’s a stick built 7 story building. But 350 units is great for uptown

I'm devastated and frustrated that Hall House is being taken down.  The block on which Hall House sits, however, has largely been a forlorn surface parking lot and I'm glad to see a new residential structure completely cover this block, including the side of it along College Street.  I'm also quite disappointed by and confused that this project doesn't appear to include ground-level non-residential uses.  Totally puzzling.

[DMann]

While I too would love to see a boutique hotel go here, I am encouraged as this is the start of that entire block's transition!  I look forward to the street closures due to construction and a flurry of activity making that block responsive to the city.

[rancenc]

Another posting on the complex taking place on the site of the old Hall House!

https://www.wbtv.com/2022/07/18/work-starts-soon-mixed-income-apartments-old-hotel-site-uptown/

[Blue_Devil]

2 hours ago, RANYC said:

I'm devastated and frustrated that Hall House is being taken down.  The block on which Hall House sits, however, has largely been a forlorn surface parking lot and I'm glad to see a new residential structure completely cover this block, including the side of it along College Street.  I'm also quite disappointed by and confused that this project doesn't appear to include ground-level non-residential uses.  Totally puzzling.

Has any of the Lennar projects retail leased yet?

[RANYC]

1 minute ago, Blue_Devil said:

Has any of the Lennar projects retail leased yet?

Maybe you're linking Lennar retail's issues to this site, but my view is that this project lines Tryon which is an altogether very different scenario and positioning, whereas Lennar retail lines a relatively obscure strip along the rail trail.  A project backed by public funds should at least provision for retail opportunities, even incubator retail, on the ground floor of a development like this.

[atlrvr]

I think the fact that it relies on public funds is the primary reason it doesn't have retail.

Said differently, federal or local dollars allocated to housing, have to be used to support housing.  Supporting incubator retail space is not an objective for housing programs.

[RANYC]

50 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

I think the fact that it relies on public funds is the primary reason it doesn't have retail.

Said differently, federal or local dollars allocated to housing, have to be used to support housing.  Supporting incubator retail space is not an objective for housing programs.

Is that actually the case?  This project was restricted from incorporating ground-level retail?  Not sure what the funding mix was for this project apart from housing bond proceeds to Inlivian backed by city?/county?, but is urban housing with any government-backing or guarantee not allowed to be mixed-use?

[atlrvr]

It is factual that federal housing tax-credits can't cover any non residential unit or amenity costs.  It's also factual that agency (Fannie and Freddie) lenders won't consider any non-residential unit rents in sizing a loan for the project.  

Basically, any retail space here would have to make sense on an non-levered equity return basis....and then convince a public housing developer that additional equity is the best use of their dollars (as opposed to investing in additional housing units).

[RANYC]

14 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

It is factual that federal housing tax-credits can't cover any non residential unit or amenity costs.  It's also factual that agency (Fannie and Freddie) lenders won't consider any non-residential unit rents in sizing a loan for the project.  

Basically, any retail space here would have to make sense on an non-levered equity return basis....and then convince a public housing developer that additional equity is the best use of their dollars (as opposed to investing in additional housing units).

Oh interesting, most of this building is market-rate, and the 106 affordable units I thought were funded by bond products from the NC Housing Finance Agency.  Wasn't aware this was funded by HUD or Federal Housing tax-credits.  Or maybe it is through this NC Housing Finance Agency.  At any rate, I know little about Inlivian's capital strategy/capital mix, or the role its partner, Urban plays in funding the "market" side of this development.  Would be nice if the mostly market-rate side of this project could have incorporated ground-floor retail.  I feel I've seen mostly market-rate residential developments with affordable housing set-asides get built as mixed-use, but can't look that up at the moment.

Edited July 18, 2022 by RANYC

[DonkeyKong]

Destroying a historic building for this project is a travesty!  They could have been much more creative (land swaps, etc.) in constructing the master plan for this block, but I've heard Inlivian leadership had different ideas and wasn't the easiest to work with so we have this turd to show for it.  This should be outside 277 not in an area where we are trying to create a vibrant center city.

Edited July 18, 2022 by DonkeyKong

[AirNostrumMAD]

2 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

It is factual that federal housing tax-credits can't cover any non residential unit or amenity costs.  It's also factual that agency (Fannie and Freddie) lenders won't consider any non-residential unit rents in sizing a loan for the project.  

Basically, any retail space here would have to make sense on an non-levered equity return basis....and then convince a public housing developer that additional equity is the best use of their dollars (as opposed to investing in additional housing units).

Are you sure that's true? I've seen plenty of Agency loans with retail components, including newly built Forwards (especially Colorado, Oregon and Washington state) that have favorable terms and Lease-Up provisions tied to the leasing and full payment of the Commercial Lease Agreements so long as the Commercial Units don't make up like 35% of the income of the property. In addition, while not explicitly tied to commercial units, I've seen Lease-Ups in general that would never make it without Commercial Income. 

Unless I'm mistaken or we're talking about different things.

[atlrvr]

2 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Are you sure that's true? I've seen plenty of Agency loans with retail components, including newly built Forwards (especially Colorado, Oregon and Washington state) that have favorable terms and Lease-Up provisions tied to the leasing and full payment of the Commercial Lease Agreements so long as the Commercial Units don't make up like 35% of the income of the property. In addition, while not explicitly tied to commercial units, I've seen Lease-Ups in general that would never make it without Commercial Income. 

Unless I'm mistaken or we're talking about different things.

I'm not sure if we're saying the same thing.   I was under the impression that since 2009 or so that agency loans for maximum loan sizing was only based on unit rent, and other income directly attributable to the units (fees, laundry, parking, etc). It's entirely possible I'm mistaken or terms have changed.

[AirNostrumMAD]

1 hour ago, atlrvr said:

I'm not sure if we're saying the same thing.   I was under the impression that since 2009 or so that agency loans for maximum loan sizing was only based on unit rent, and other income directly attributable to the units (fees, laundry, parking, etc). It's entirely possible I'm mistaken or terms have changed.

It must have changed. Commercial income from retail, Senior care facilities, public parking decks, etc are excluded from NRI requirements but commercial income along with laundry, parking, pet fees and anything as “determined by Lender in Lenders discretion” is included as acceptable other income when calculating the DSCR and sizing the loan. That’s inclusive of loans that are TAH, bonds, tels, LIHTC, etc. And retail spots are actually viewed favorably as far as I’ve seen and always noted as a strength to the properties lease-up opportunities. 

Sometimes there’s only a commercial lease-up requirement that requires commercial tenant be in place paying 3 consecutive months rent. It’s been a pain waiving temporary rent reductions for tenants due to Covid as Lender has to approve each temporary reduction. I’ve even seen regulatory that requires certain commercial tenants (like Day cares.). And like typical lease up, if the commercial lease ups don’t meet the requirements for the release of their collateral, it’s applied to a pay down on top of a prepayment penalty (pretty harsh but that’s why they got favorable loan terms)

The only requirement limiting commercial space is commercial income can’t exceed 25% of the properties gross income. 

So I don’t think affordability requirements from the agency lenders or HUD has anything to do with it and I’ve seen lots of municipal housing agencies have commercial attached. DC actually subsidized a grocery store recently. 
 

I’m gonna go with rather than affordability requirements - unless it’s local authorities - that’s likely not it and I’m just gonna guess Charlotte is being Charlotte. If that’s the case that Borrower is just choosing to not include commercial space, it  makes sense for their bottom line. Why not have some government assistance and market rate units uptown versus dealing with commercial? I say it all the time. We shouldn’t expect developers to do what’s best for the area. Especially since these Borrowers are rarely local and often times are just pooled with other loans for securitizations. Commercial real estate just adds an annoyance to the constant switching of hands by borrowers. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[JeanClt]

So stick built…With brick facade or…? Looks really nice but if this had or if has retail… a dream…

[davidclt]

On 7/5/2022 at 12:15 PM, turbocraig said:

Their website currently doesn't list CLT as an office location in the US.  Wonder if that will change, or if the functions based here don't technically warrant a "Location" on the site.  I'm not really knowledgeable about them or their structure here.

https://www.mufgamericas.com/who-we-are/our-locations/united-states

They do not have a branch, banking office or agency presence here. No MUFG customer is going to come into the Charlotte office to transact business. Here's the sort of thing the offices do (I was intrigued by their Kentucky presence) - from MUFG; The Americas | Global Network | MUFG Bank:

Overview

The Kentucky Representative Office was established in 1986 and became the Kentucky Corporate Banking Office in 2007. As a part of the Chicago Branch, we offer banking services to Japanese corporate customers mainly in Kentucky, Ohio, and Indiana.

Here's Atlanta for comparison:

Overview

Originally one of many Japanese banks in Atlanta, MUFG Bank, Ltd. is now the only Japanese bank located in the Southeastern United States that provides support to Asian corporate banking clients.

Established in 1977 as a Representative Office of the Bank of Tokyo, the Atlanta Corporate Banking Office functions as the front office contact point for our customers, and we collaborate with MUFG Bank, Ltd.'s New York headquarters to provide full-service banking.

 

[Reverie39]

Does anyone know what these random fields of grass near the Panthers stadium are? Do they serve as parking on gamedays or something? If so I understand the need for some tailgating space but this whole triangular stretch between 77, 277, and Morehead looks out of place and silly being next do dense, developed Uptown and South End. Surely someone is at least interested in buying up those low-rise building lots and developing something there?

[CLT Development]

3 minutes ago, Reverie39 said:

Does anyone know what these random fields of grass near the Panthers stadium are? Do they serve as parking on gamedays or something? If so I understand the need for some tailgating space but this whole triangular stretch between 77, 277, and Morehead looks out of place and silly being next do dense, developed Uptown and South End. Surely someone is at least interested in buying up those low-rise building lots and developing something there?

lol, that is Charlotte Pipe & Foundry currently, it'll likely be the Panthers next stadium. The other side of Morehead will be Tepper's entertainment district

Edited July 21, 2022 by CLT Development

[Reverie39]

Oh, I see. I didn't realize Pipe and Foundry's land stretched across 277 too. Well that's a good use of the land but I'm not holding my breath for any positive developments with Tepper anytime soon lol. Maybe in 5 years.

[gsutton5]

What is the status of the intercontinental hotel? I’m seeing glass structure at the base on Tryon. Is there going to be a hotel above?

[gsutton5]

Here’s a another question… how on earth has the below Parking lot not been developed yet? Looks like prime real estate if you ask me. I would personally love to see a “car free” condo/apartments high rise on this plot. 
 

Mon that topic, why aren’t there any new condos in Charlotte?

[go_vertical]

7 minutes ago, gsutton5 said:

Here’s a another question… how on earth has the below Parking lot not been developed yet? Looks like prime real estate if you ask me. I would personally love to see a “car free” condo/apartments high rise on this plot. 
 

Mon that topic, why aren’t there any new condos in Charlotte?

I believe that block is owned by one of the RR companies and they're in no rush to sell.