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will admit, (Jayvee, Tozmervo, et al.) there does appear to be more homeless in uptown than there used to be.  And while homeless come with a large city, I don't want Charlotte to be like Chicago (which I agree, is just insane in its amount of aggressive homeless people).  So, while I still believe that a homeless population is just part of living in a city, I do hope the city can find a solution to prevent us from becoming a dump.  Maybe bench removal is a temporary solution until they can find a better one, I just don't know.

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Lifeless to alive in just a couple of years.

on topic but miniaturized... my wife 3d printed a copy of the uptown skyline for me!     Hurst was not ‘Hursted’, but check out those accurately reproduced surface lots! (actually

Per Charlotte Ledger, the land at 4th and Brevard across from CTC sold for $11M.   This is the Norfolk Southern land they were slow to let go of.    I am incredibly excited about this.  White Point Pa

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I fully support the new Social Worker to help lead these people into a solution that provides them permanent housing. Sleeping on a bench or hiding in a bush is no way to live. This is the carrot and the stick approach.

 

This is starting to affect businesses now. A whole bunch of the homeless were hanging out in Starbucks at Trade and Tryon earlier this week and the place reeked...it smelled awful....and guess what, no one was buying coffee...no one. The cops were called and shortly ushered them outside, but the place still smelled awful...That starbucks always has a long line at all times of day....but there was absolutely no one in line. I don't give a crap what your politics are but when a company is prevented from doing business...to me that crosses the line.

 

The homeless need permanent solutions to their problems, not a few dollars, not a bench, not a bush in the park. I truly hope this will be the catalyst for positive change in their lives.

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There really has been a serious problem during this economic cycle.  In 4th Ward I have noticed a dramatic uptick of vagrants walking through and doing petty crime and littering and scavenging trash cans, etc. 

 

Removing the benches on Tryon would be a shame, and is not really the ultimate solution.  

 

The problem with most social problems, things are often the backwards and bizarro-world.  In education, shuffling poor students around to hide them or couch them in demographics is better than trying to help them (the best case would be to understand their needs are higher and giving them smaller class sizes, etc.).    Homelessness is more than poverty, is most likely it is a matter of mental illness or addiction or both.

 

Case workers that are dedicated to getting the available help to these people is the best approach.  I honestly wish we had significantly better mental health facilities where they could truly remain in comfort but receive proper treatment.   

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I fully support the new Social Worker to help lead these people into a solution that provides them permanent housing. Sleeping on a bench or hiding in a bush is no way to live. This is the carrot and the stick approach.

 

This is starting to affect businesses now. A whole bunch of the homeless were hanging out in Starbucks at Trade and Tryon earlier this week and the place reeked...it smelled awful....and guess what, no one was buying coffee...no one. The cops were called and shortly ushered them outside, but the place still smelled awful...That starbucks always has a long line at all times of day....but there was absolutely no one in line. I don't give a crap what your politics are but when a company is prevented from doing business...to me that crosses the line.

 

The homeless need permanent solutions to their problems, not a few dollars, not a bench, not a bush in the park. I truly hope this will be the catalyst for positive change in their lives.

I noticed that at Starbucks this week, and yes as stated the benches aren't a long-term solution, and yes being a "real" city comes with homeless people. The problem of homeless people is a national problem that Charlotte was mostly shielded from, but it has become a problem here and I don't think us becoming a "real" city has anything to do with it. Nothing has happened over the last year city-wise that would glaringly cause this increase. I think we just need to combat it and allow the police to do their jobs, and hopefully the city steps in and puts some money forward to combat the issue. Okay, now I am done, I promise.

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I think it's laughable to cry about a Starbucks who are the Walmart of the coffee business when it comes to a poor business losing customers as far as I'm concerned. How does a homeless person get to sit there? Did they buy a cup of coffee. If so - they have the same right as anyone to sit there. Starbucks can go cry me a river. That said if a homeless person can afford to buy an overpriced cup of pretentious coffee ...

I'm a pretty liberal person. I'm also strongly against people who only want cities to be sanitized urban centers that hide all the reality of life because it might upset you. Go to a gated community then and stop claiming you love cities.You deserves no sympathies.

Yet in addition to all I previously wrote I equally feel we cannot ignore the problem of people who are not homeless being unable to enjoy city life due such as utilizing a bench, allowing their children to play in the park (without coming across feces) , not being able to sit in their coffeehouse of choice, and having a general and acceptable sense of saftey. It is apparent that a tipping point has been reached and now that is becoming an issue.

But you don't take care of it by "temporarily" removing benches. That is the stupidest thing I ever heard. All it will do is exacerbate the problems in other parts of Downtown. It's a rob Peter to pay Paul in reverse.

So what's to be done? Frankly the city and county ( and state) have got to pony up the money to build the shelters while at the same time they will have to consider very unpopular laws/ordinances that will take a harder stand about vagrancy. But for my part - hiding the problem doesn't come before the solution which is what this proposal boils down to in the end.

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I think it's laughable to cry about a Starbucks who are the Walmart of the coffee business when it comes to a poor business losing customers as far as I'm concerned. 

Sorry, but they're not even comparable. Walmarts are all corporate owned. Starbucks are generally franchises. Whether a local brand or a national chain, they're owned by local citizens. If a Starbucks goes under, it means virtually nothing to Starbucks corporate, but it can be devastating to the franchisee.

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I think it's laughable to cry about a Starbucks who are the Walmart of the coffee business when it comes to a poor business losing customers as far as I'm concerned. How does a homeless person get to sit there? Did they buy a cup of coffee. If so - they have the same right as anyone to sit there. Starbucks can go cry me a river. That said if a homeless person can afford to buy an overpriced cup of pretentious coffee ...

For the record, I don't think it is a matter of anyone losing sleep over Starbucks losing business. It is a concern for patrons of businesses in general and the principal of it all.

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Actually Starbucks stores are corporate-owned. They do sell coffee to hotels and other private places, but the actual stores seen on every other corner are owned by the folks in Seattle.

Interesting. I've worked with a franchise organization in the past and Starbucks was one of their clients. Looks like Starbucks does have some franchises, just not very many.

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For the record, I don't think it is a matter of anyone losing sleep over Starbucks losing business. It is a concern for patrons of businesses in general and the principal of it all.

Well if anyone really wanted to argue about the principle of it all, I'm certain that homeless people would rank higher as far as how we care for the least of our brothers than anything else. And let's be honest - this isn't by any stretch of truth about businesses losing money. It is about a quality of life and PR issue for the center city.

BTW in case anyone thinks I'm just trying to be a Norma Rae or Ceaser Chavez for the sake of contrarian pov, I reiterate something I said in my first post on the subject: In addition to helping the homeless we have to enact stricter ordinances against vagrancy and begging. Frankly I am in favor of being tougher in the situation.

I just think the current proposal is cosmetic and myopic with no end game but to harras the homeless in one section of uptown while making the city feel like it did something concrete.

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Well if anyone really wanted to argue about the principle of it all, I'm certain that homeless people would rank higher as far as how we care for the least of our brothers than anything else. And let's be honest - this isn't by any stretch of truth about businesses losing money. It is about a quality of life and PR issue for the center city.

BTW in case anyone thinks I'm just trying to be a Norma Rae or Ceaser Chavez for the sake of contrarian pov, I reiterate something I said in my first post on the subject: In addition to helping the homeless we have to enact stricter ordinances against vagrancy and begging. Frankly I am in favor of being tougher in the situation.

I just think the current proposal is cosmetic and myopic with no end game but to harras the homeless in one section of uptown while making the city feel like it did something concrete.

I am impressed that you have it all figured out, including who (which businesses, which people) deserve sympathy,which do not, and how to solve it all.  To me, this is a really incredibly complicated issue that people have been trying to solve for eternity.  But then I tend to overthink things sometimes.  

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^In the First World, it's primarily an American issue.  I rarely see homeless people on the streets of London, Manchester, Frankfurt, or Hamburg. And I have NEVER seen any person with a sign asking for money at a freeway off/on ramp or at a traffic signal while traveling in Europe.  

Wonder why that is.....

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I am impressed that you have it all figured out, including who (which businesses, which people) deserve sympathy,which do not, and how to solve it all.  To me, this is a really incredibly complicated issue that people have been trying to solve for eternity.  But then I tend to overthink things sometimes.

Really?

It seems quite simple. Respect all citizens of a city while holding the rule of law that expects each citizen to respect their city. It is pomposity of those tongue in cheek arguments such as claiming others know the solution or that the solution resides within a 30 day temporary maneuver that gets cities in trouble.

Well deserved pointed sarcasm aside and to return this thread to the topic, within the context of "urban planet" one simply does not even feign a solution to a real urban issue by proposing a intersection only remedy. I mean, really - do any of you who think this is the slightest of good ideas think that the politically correct labeled area of the city known as "uptown" is so ridiculous as to only constitute a 2 square block radius?  Do you really minimize Charlotte as such a hick town as to have a center that is only that two blocks in size? Spelt out like that - does it not seem preposterous?

Charlotte, and on topic - Uptown - which is really a sanitized name for downtown with the moniker and the battle for it in itself is an issue that is shadowing this very discussion - is worth cheering about only if it is a city of substance.

 

One does not define the substance of a city by the height of its buildings (though we are the leader in the state) or the nightlife/cultural/dining/entertainment options ( another category where we are the leader in the state) nor is it the sense of business (repetitive I know, - but yes, us again) or retail (OK - we lost this one).  It is defined by whether or not it acts, and as a result, feels like a city. Trust me - you can't fake this as much as one can do with the offended "urban sensibilities" of a self-entitled upper (or seeking to be upper) white class. 

 

Charlotte - You are barely majority white.  Do you really think that homelessness is going to be combatted in any way by removing benches for 30 days in a two block radius?  Really?  Are we that Mayberry?  Or are we a city?

Acting like a city means dropping the phrase "sketchy" from the discussion when discussing anything but CRVA marketing worthy photo ops of citizens.  It also means accepting that people of color and the poor are as entitled to the center of the city as the upper white class (or those white people who aspire to be upper) who seek it alone; it means accepting homelessness exists as a part of city life that and knowing that the acceptance includes laughing at solutions that are based on an artificial 2 block radius moratorium on the matter.

 

To go back to the quote and the point.  I never claimed the issue was easy to solve.  In fact, I argued the opposite.   It's why I look with disgust at those who would propose or applaud such a simplistic plan as to deal with the issue of homelessness in our city by removing benches from a two block radius while bemoaning they can't get a cup of coffee without daring to smell people who are destitute.

 

I'm saddened to think that anyone would be that "impressed" in the end.  It really is simple.  Unless one wants to make it complicated for political reasons.   This is not to say the issue of homelessness is not complicated so much as deciding the laughability of a two block radius policy and those who would defend it for questionable reasons. 

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If all they were doing was just removing benches I would be laughing right along with you. But for me the difference is that they are going to pay for an extra social services case worker to help these people get back on their feet again and make sure they use the existing resources that already exist in this city and also shed light on any resources we need to add.

 

I have sat down and shared meals and talked with probably a hundred homeless over the past couple of years. Not a single one of them wants to sleep on a bench at night. They want jobs and a hand up to get back on their feet again. There is a small percentage of chronic homeless suffering from mental illness and drug addiction that I think should be offered permanent housing for free which the city and county is already moving in that direction to do just that.

 

On a personal note I ride the city buses regularly as well as work with the Urban Ministry Center so I am used to being around people that may not have taken a shower recently or be wearing clean clothes...but what was going on at Starbucks the other day smelled really bad and was turning regular customers away. I fully support any business to ask or have a customer removed that reeks of urine and smells like something died. I know the great people that run Amelie's and Not Just Coffee would have done exactly the same thing.

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^In the First World, it's primarily an American issue.  I rarely see homeless people on the streets of London, Manchester, Frankfurt, or Hamburg. And I have NEVER seen any person with a sign asking for money at a freeway off/on ramp or at a traffic signal while traveling in Europe.  

 

It sounds like you never been to Europe :)

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