Misc. Uptown Projects/News

[nonillogical]

So to rehash this conversation: homeless people in uptown.

 

For stats to say the population is lower than ever, I am 100% calling BS on that. In the 3 years I have lived here i have NEVER noticed as many homeless people as I do now DAILY in uptown. It's to the point where it is a topic of conversation, which has never been the case before. I understand cities like Austin have it way worse than us, and we don't want to be a sterile city, and we all want to be a grown up city and with that comes homeless people. But there's a tipping point. Benches in uptown are absolutely loaded with homeless people, so my questions are:

 

Why the sudden influx? Why over this year has there been such an increase of visibility? and most importantly, what can be done and what is being done?

 

I understand we all want to be heroes and care for them and have sympathy, and yadda yadda. But I take pride in the fact our downtown is very clean, very safe, and incredibly walkable. Since the influx in homeless I have noticed uptown be: dirtier, my head is on a swivel walking at night and its bothersome.

I think something must have happened at the Hal Marshall land...did the outreach programs there cease or were they otherwise driven off the land? When I lived at Tryon House there would always be anywhere from 20-50 homeless people, sometimes more, around Tryon and 10th hanging out on that half wall, and there were frequent church group lunches being served there or sometimes at First Methodist. The last few times I've passed by there, that area is relatively empty, and if something has happened to drive them away from there, then I am not at all surprised that they moved to where most of the benches and open common space (not to mention shade from the sun) is at the Square. 

[ssh214]

You are absolutely right about there being an increase in the number of homeless people. It has come to the point for me that I get asked at least once every time I walk somewhere for money; and I do this everyday. Every big city has this problem of course but it really has increased. I really don't know what can be done about this issue though...

[CLTProductions]

You are absolutely right about there being an increase in the number of homeless people. It has come to the point for me that I get asked at least once every time I walk somewhere for money; and I do this everyday. Every big city has this problem of course but it really has increased. I really don't know what can be done about this issue though...

Unfortunately money is the solution, and money doesn't want to be spent. I would GLADLY allow my taxes to be raised to fix the current problem update. and nonillogical, you are probably right, something must have happened down there. I wish the city and police had a more active role in addressing the issue. And before certain people start the belly aching about the "this is what a city is like" or "we shouldnt take a too aggressive stance" or "this is Charlotte not being sterile" or whatever other nonsense, this is a problem, and it is getting worse.

[mallguy]

Unfortunately money is the solution, and money doesn't want to be spent. I would GLADLY allow my taxes to be raised to fix the current problem update. and nonillogical, you are probably right, something must have happened down there. I wish the city and police had a more active role in addressing the issue. And before certain people start the belly aching about the "this is what a city is like" or "we shouldnt take a too aggressive stance" or "this is Charlotte not being sterile" or whatever other nonsense, this is a problem, and it is getting worse.

Why not also let private charities play a larger role than they do? Increase the charitable deduction for "help the poor and homeless"-type charities, which would help funds flow for this need. Or make it easier for uptown businesses to do more patrolling (such as the various business improvement districts in NYC that have their own staff that supplements the paid police). Just more government isn't the only solution.

[pgsinger]

Why not also let private charities play a larger role than they do? Increase the charitable deduction for "help the poor and homeless"-type charities, which would help funds flow for this need. Or make it easier for uptown businesses to do more patrolling (such as the various business improvement districts in NYC that have their own staff that supplements the paid police). Just more government isn't the only solution.

 

First, a charitable deduction increase is exactly the same thing as spending tax dollars, except the government can't direct the money to those causes deemed valuable (depending on your view of the gov't this is either bad or good).  Second, we do not have a city income tax therefore this deduction would have to come from the NC State Legislature (think Thom Tillis gives a crap about the poor?) or the US Congress (not going to happen).  We need to fund things directly not via tax expenditures, as direct funding is far more transparent and less open to interpretation.

 

The way to address problem is this to fund, via personal or business charitable contributions AND tax money, homeless shelters, counseling, and basic services.  There is already a push to add more beds to the Men's and Women's shelters.  Those that see this as a problem, as many of us on here, should give $20 bucks to these organizations.  These shelters do much more than provide food and beds.  They provide a place for counseling, access to basic services (showers, brushing your teeth), some basic job training, etc.  One large element of this is mental health counseling, including substance abuse.  How many times have we (myself included) stepped over a homeless person and thought, "Why can't you just get a job and get out of my way?"  Well if that person can't get a shower and wash their clothes, they'll never get an interview, much less a job.  If they don't have a steady place to sleep it will be hard for them to be productive and punctual.  If they don't have a safe, drug and alcohol free place to come back to, they may slip into the same bad habits that got them in this situation. 

 

People have to work hard to overcome certain situations in their lives, but a little basic (and cheap on a per person basis) help goes a long way.

[CLTProductions]

First, a charitable deduction increase is exactly the same thing as spending tax dollars, except the government can't direct the money to those causes deemed valuable (depending on your view of the gov't this is either bad or good).  Second, we do not have a city income tax therefore this deduction would have to come from the NC State Legislature (think Thom Tillis gives a crap about the poor?) or the US Congress (not going to happen).  We need to fund things directly not via tax expenditures, as direct funding is far more transparent and less open to interpretation.

 

The way to address problem is this to fund, via personal or business charitable contributions AND tax money, homeless shelters, counseling, and basic services.  There is already a push to add more beds to the Men's and Women's shelters.  Those that see this as a problem, as many of us on here, should give $20 bucks to these organizations.  These shelters do much more than provide food and beds.  They provide a place for counseling, access to basic services (showers, brushing your teeth), some basic job training, etc.  One large element of this is mental health counseling, including substance abuse.  How many times have we (myself included) stepped over a homeless person and thought, "Why can't you just get a job and get out of my way?"  Well if that person can't get a shower and wash their clothes, they'll never get an interview, much less a job.  If they don't have a steady place to sleep it will be hard for them to be productive and punctual.  If they don't have a safe, drug and alcohol free place to come back to, they may slip into the same bad habits that got them in this situation. 

 

People have to work hard to overcome certain situations in their lives, but a little basic (and cheap on a per person basis) help goes a long way.

Where can I donate? I will gladly donate money to help these people and get them off the streets and out of the square.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Jayvee

[Matthew.Brendan]

Should the police sweep the streets and move them to the edge of town? (just not YOUR edge, right?) Give them free one way bus fare to another city?

Have you personally been assaulted by someone on the street? Verbally attacked?

To me the complaints are completely VISUAL. You don't like what you see. The actual impact is negligible.

[Nolan]

Should the police sweep the streets and move them to the edge of town? (just not YOUR edge, right?) Give them free one way bus fare to another city?

Have you personally been assaulted by someone on the street? Verbally attacked?

To me the complaints are completely VISUAL. You don't like what you see. The actual impact is negligible.

A gay homeless man did flash me before, and a homeless woman chased me all within the same night near where the Fox and Hound used to be on 7th and Tryon. I think problems need to be addressed, but the removal of the benches proposal seems to be too drastic, didn't Bank of America offered to do something instead when the city had proposed that idea?

[CLTProductions]

Should the police sweep the streets and move them to the edge of town? (just not YOUR edge, right?) Give them free one way bus fare to another city?

Have you personally been assaulted by someone on the street? Verbally attacked?

To me the complaints are completely VISUAL. You don't like what you see. The actual impact is negligible.

Wouldn't mind those options haha, but either way, visual or not its still an issue. And verbal harassment yes.

 

Visual impacts are ABSOLUTELY not negligible, we, as a forum, spend countless posts b!tching about the visual impacts no matter how functional or not they are. The facade of a building and homeless people are not apples to oranges, it all adds up to the visual impact of the city.

[pgsinger]

Wouldn't mind those options haha, but either way, visual or not its still an issue. And verbal harassment yes.

 

Visual impacts are ABSOLUTELY not negligible, we, as a forum, spend countless posts b!tching about the visual impacts no matter how functional or not they are. The facade of a building and homeless people are not apples to oranges, it all adds up to the visual impact of the city.

 

Agreed.  Visual is important.  I also know several people that have been verbally assaulted with strong sexual comments on their way to and from work!

 

Ways to help:

 

Men's Shelter of Charlotte

http://www.mensshelterofcharlotte.org/ways-to-help/

 

Salvation Army Center of Hope (Women's and Children's Shelter)

Details on the Center:  http://www.salvationarmycarolinas.org/charlotte/get-help/salvation-army-center-of-hope-shelter-for-women-and-children

Homeless Program ways to help page:  http://www.salvationarmycarolinas.org/charlotte/programs/homeless-services/how-to-help-homelessness

 

United Way - Donate to the United Way and tag your money for any of the homeless related programs, including oth of those above and "A Child's Place", which focuses on homeless children.

http://www.uwcentralcarolinas.org/agency-list

 

You can also support businesses like the King's Kitchen that hire indigent persons in an effort to give them a second chance.  Or, better yet, you can hire or encourage your company to hire indigent persons.

http://www.kingskitchen.org/about/

[CLTProductions]

Agreed.  Visual is important.  I also know several people that have been verbally assaulted with strong sexual comments on their way to and from work!

 

Ways to help:

 

Men's Shelter of Charlotte

http://www.mensshelterofcharlotte.org/ways-to-help/

 

Salvation Army Center of Hope (Women's and Children's Shelter)

Details on the Center:  http://www.salvationarmycarolinas.org/charlotte/get-help/salvation-army-center-of-hope-shelter-for-women-and-children

Homeless Program ways to help page:  http://www.salvationarmycarolinas.org/charlotte/programs/homeless-services/how-to-help-homelessness

 

United Way - Donate to the United Way and tag your money for any of the homeless related programs, including oth of those above and "A Child's Place", which focuses on homeless children.

http://www.uwcentralcarolinas.org/agency-list

 

You can also support businesses like the King's Kitchen that hire indigent persons in an effort to give them a second chance.  Or, better yet, you can hire or encourage your company to hire indigent persons.

http://www.kingskitchen.org/about/

Excellent, thank you for the info. And luckily I am male, I have had numerous female friends tell me they've had homeless people shout things at them, be rude, make them uncomfortable, list goes on from there. We can all say it's part of being a big city, but I am pretty sure Charlotte was a big city 3 years ago too and the problems are exponentially worse this summer than the last 2.

[DMann]

Youse guys sound like Ballentyners!

 

Homeless is visually and uncomfortably awkward.  It is not an easy issue, but it exists everywhere.

[CLTProductions]

Youse guys sound like Ballentyners!

 

Homeless is visually and uncomfortably awkward.  It is not an easy issue, but it exists everywhere.

Of course it exists, that's not the point at hand. The point is, it seems to be getting worse, why? And what can be done, what is being done and why isn't something being done to stop the bleeding so to speak aka stop it from getting worse as it has been.

[pgsinger]

I do not know the numbers, but my hunch is that the organizations that provide services to the homeless have not grown in line with our population.  If the homeless rate stays the same but population increases, then we have more homeless people in terms of real numbers.

 

I also have a theory that relates to both our unemployment rate and our homeless rate, but I do not have to the data or the time and expertise to analyze the data (though I am pushing a contact at the Atlas Project to do it).  I think we are one of the few areas that people have been migrating to because of the hope (perceived or real) of job opportunities.  As many on this forum will probably remember, about 2.5 years ago the local press touted the fact that we had passed our peak employment number (i.e. we had more people employed in terms of real numbers than ever before).  We can cite numerous articles that reference our incredibly high rate of job creation, relative to the national average.  Yet we are all very familiar with the fact that our unemployment rate has dropped in line with or slower than average.  I think this is because people that are underemployed or unemployed are moving here seeking job opportunities.  This would result in a slower then average decline in the unemployment rate despite a higher than average job creation rate.

 

Another thought is that there is a baseline level for homeless services to be effective.  For example, at some point a school room becomes too crowded for a teacher to teach.  At that point, it is just daycare.  Then, if none of those students pass the year end test, they are all held back making the next year's classes more crowded (in my analogy the next grade level teachers cannot teach the year prior).  Similarly, there is probably a point where our homeless services become stretched so thin that they are just providing beds and showers and not effectively moving people on to the next level, i.e. low level employment and paying subsidized rent for housing.  

 

But, I am getting off topic here, so I won't continue this anymore.  Probably time for another thread if there is really this much interest.

[elrodvt]

Youse guys sound like Ballentyners!

 

Homeless is visually and uncomfortably awkward.  It is not an easy issue, but it exists everywhere.

Exactly, but as Jayvee said those thoughts are nonsense so move on....

 

Seriously. the bench thing was beyond stupid. As someone who actually lives down here I can say the benches are often free and often not. Just as you would like. Not everyone on them are homeless either, believe it or not. I have noticed at night the demographics tilt towards homeless but then again, pretty much everyone else is gone home then. ;-(

 

Still, perhaps the city does need a no camping ordinance or some such verbiage which allows the police to move them along. Sure, they just become someone else's problem at that time but what else can you do.

I saw this work very well in Denver and they were smart enough to include increased funding for a variety of social programs as part of the package. 

[CLTProductions]

Exactly, but as Jayvee said those thoughts are nonsense so move on....

 

Seriously. the bench thing was beyond stupid. As someone who actually lives down here I can say the benches are often free and often not. Just as you would like. Not everyone on them are homeless either, believe it or not. I have noticed at night the demographics tilt towards homeless but then again, pretty much everyone else is gone home then. ;-(

 

Still, perhaps the city does need a no camping ordinance or some such verbiage which allows the police to move them along. Sure, they just become someone else's problem at that time but what else can you do.

I saw this work very well in Denver and they were smart enough to include increased funding for a variety of social programs as part of the package. 

NOOOONNNSEENNSEEEEEE. I think Charlotte falls somewhere inbetween Denver and Austin. Denver being a great example of how to handle and Austin being a terrible example. For as much as publications get on Austin's jock, they have a SERIOUS homeless problem (and I will admit Charlotte is no where as bad), and it's because that city does absolutely nothing to help the homeless as well as the basic invitation to live on the streets.

 

And I'm not saying the thoughts are nonsense, I am saying that overlooking the problem because it "is what it is" or "is part of being a city" is nonsense. But whatever, I guess it all is just beating a dead horse. So about all these great projects uptown, like the hotels!

Edited September 10, 2014 by Jayvee

[elrodvt]

NOOOONNNSEENNSEEEEEE. I think Charlotte falls somewhere inbetween Denver and Austin. Denver being a great example of how to handle and Austin being a terrible example. For as much as publications get on Austin's jock, they have a SERIOUS homeless problem (and I will admit Charlotte is no where as bad), and it's because that city does absolutely nothing to help the homeless as well as the basic invitation to live on the streets.

 

And I'm not saying the thoughts are nonsense, I am saying that overlooking the problem because it "is what it is" or "is part of being a city" is nonsense. But whatever, I guess it all is just beating a dead horse. So about all these great projects uptown, like the hotels!

Jayvee, sorry, i was just having some fun at your expense. Although i do suspect you live in Ballentyne and can't parallel park. ;-)

Which ever side you discuss people are going to hate on you. It's one of those lightening rod issues politicians love to ignore. At a local level all we can do is fund our social programs at a "fair" level, compared to like cities, and move along the people who choose not to use them. Is Charlotte on par with similar cities?

At a national level we need to roll back some of the changes which make it so hard to hospitalize people who're batsh*t crazy!

[CLTProductions]

Jayvee, sorry, i was just having some fun at your expense. Although i do suspect you live in Ballentyne and can't parallel park. ;-)

Nope, uptown and rarely drive

[15895]

Question unrelated to hobo's.

Is it possible for Charlotte to give incentives for a lifestyle center?

For instance, if BoA wanted to redevelop one of its properties along North Tryon to a lifestyle center (which I assume That term means Eoicenter type of complex but with retailers and less clubs and food joints), could the city use incentives like the ones used for Carowinds?

I would imagine incentives from the city would make it less risky and make financing easier.

[atlrvr]

^ The Epicentre (and Metropolitan, and others) did recieve incentives in the form on synthetic-tax increment financing (S-TIF).  The city agrees to front the developer money for infrastrure portions of the site (like a parking deck, or streetscape, etc), and then agrees to be reimbursed over many years from the additional tax revenue that the new development generates.

 

As far as paying incentives for a job, it theoretically could work for an office tower in the form of:

 

1) Company agrees to relocated high enough paying jobs to Charlotte.

2) Charlotte gives company incentive package for relocation costs

3) Company agrees to lease new development, and promises the incentives to the developer (in lump sum payment or in the form of higher lease rates).  This justifies the costs of new construction.

 

Paying for relatively lower wage retail jobs is never going to happen (i don't think).

[InitialD]

Fountains Uptown from this past weekend:

[SentioVenia]

Didn't see this posted anywhere:  what's with the yellow gate around Fourth Ward Bread Co.?  It's obviously closed, but are there building issues?

 

 

Edit:  Aaah, a fire.

Edited September 30, 2014 by SentioVenia

[km1789]

Didn't see this posted anywhere:  what's with the yellow gate around Fourth Ward Bread Co.?  It's obviously closed, but are there building issues?

 

Two weekends ago they had a kitchen fire that damaged the building and all their equipment/furnishings pretty badly... The owners say that there is no structural damage and that they plan to re open but I don't know of a timeline for that yet. Very sad to lose a business like that when they were really picking up and doing well. Those types of small, local businesses are exactly what Uptown needs and I wish them a speedy recovery.

[CLTProductions]

Didn't see this posted anywhere:  what's with the yellow gate around Fourth Ward Bread Co.?  It's obviously closed, but are there building issues?

 

 

Edit:  Aaah, a fire.

Yup, I posted it last week here: http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php/topic/50977-another-barrestaurant-bites-the-dust/page-13

 

very sad

[ah59396]

The view on Graham is looking rather "craney"