Who is going to buy all the Condos, (Part II)

[KJHburg 68010]

Charlotte is among the top cities for millenial renters coming in #6  OLD photo of skyline alert just 2 years ago makes a difference.

https://www.nreionline.com/multifamily/15-us-cities-most-popular-millennial-renters

I'm in #3 today.  

[t_money 209]

The title of this thread is a bit funny to me, because not having seen it from the beginning, I see Charlotte as not having any condos to buy! Its all apartments. So the thought of 'who will buy all the condos' seems odd to me as I think "What condos??".

[Blue_Devil 729]

2 hours ago, t_money said:

The title of this thread is a bit funny to me, because not having seen it from the beginning, I see Charlotte as not having any condos to buy! Its all apartments. So the thought of 'who will buy all the condos' seems odd to me as I think "What condos??".

I am pretty sure condos would actually be snatched up fairly fast if a lot went onto the market. 

[KJHburg 68010]

Condo construction financing is still very hard to come by unless lots of presales and that is why you only see small projects here in Charlotte.   So many banks got burned bad with condos loans in 2007/2008/2009 they are not doing those type of loans.  (think 210 Trade 50 story condo tower)   Apartments are easier to get financed.  However loan issues does not apply to townhomes.  When a condo building is built you have to build the whole thing at once including any unsold units.  Townhomes sell by row and once the row is sold or almost sold out they start construction.    This keeps down the speculative nature of building.    Plus NC has unusual laws in regarding to new condos with liability of the contractor for several years afterwards which is problematic for some.  

WARNING if you do buy a presale condo know where your deposit is going and who is holding it.  Insist on a certified NC trust account with an attorney or an agent not just held by the builder.    Many 1000s of dollars where lost with the 210 Trade condo alone.  

Edited October 23, 2020 by KJHburg

[KJHburg 68010]

Heard Fulcrum condos on S Tryon in Southend are having some delays but still should be built.

Which cities are attracting millenials renters?  of course Charlotte #6 on this list based on % of that age group renting.

1-5 to save you the slideshow are SEA, SFO, AUS, HOU, SATX 

15 Most Popular U.S. Cities for Millennials | National Real Estate Investor (nreionline.com)

[KJHburg 68010]

This is interesting.  This shows the breakdown of home/condo prices in the Charlotte market and only one is showing downward pressure and that is uptown Charlotte.  all other submarkets in the last 10 months have increased prices. 

As Charlotte-area home prices keep rising, these areas are leading the growth - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

[tozmervo 8388]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

This is interesting.  This shows the breakdown of home/condo prices in the Charlotte market and only one is showing downward pressure and that is uptown Charlotte.  all other submarkets in the last 10 months have increased prices. 

As Charlotte-area home prices keep rising, these areas are leading the growth - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

What is the "Lake Norman" submarket? Huntersville, Cornelius, and Davidson are all listed separately. 

[KJHburg 68010]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

What is the "Lake Norman" submarket? Huntersville, Cornelius, and Davidson are all listed separately. 

It used to be classified as lakefront or lake access communities all around the lakes regardless of counties.  That is probably what this is referring to. 

[kermit 11951]

3 hours ago, KJHburg said:

This is interesting.  This shows the breakdown of home/condo prices in the Charlotte market and only one is showing downward pressure and that is uptown Charlotte.  all other submarkets in the last 10 months have increased prices. 

As Charlotte-area home prices keep rising, these areas are leading the growth - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

So does this make housing in uptown more attractive than other submarkets ("its cheaper!") or less attractive ("its a bad investment!")?

Its a genuine question, people seem to view real estate differently than any other commodity and I am not sure I understand why.

Edited December 9, 2020 by kermit

[KJHburg 68010]

2 minutes ago, kermit said:

So does this make housing in uptown more attractive than other submarkets ("its cheaper!") or less attractive ("its a bad investment!")?

Its a genuine question, people view real estate very differently than any other commodity and I am not sure I understand why.

I think since this was looking at the last 10 months is  that uptown was  once a very vibrant 18 hour community is much much less so now    With the dearth of employees working there, lack of the events being held there, more restaurant closings than any other concentrated area etc the uptown area has taken the hits more greater than any neighborhood in the area.   The protests did not help either but I do think it will rebound as there is not much supply and definitely not any for sale product being built uptown.   But Covid knocked off the glow of uptown and the activity levels in surrounding neighborhoods has rebounded much more quickly  like Southend etc.   The advantages of a back to urban area movement can be found now in other places in Charlotte like Southend. 

 

[KJHburg 68010]

One other thing I thought about this is that only the lower priced condos are selling which would also bring down the average price uptown.  

any way I feel this will correct soon enough.  

I just checked 174 homes and condos (and yes there are a few SF homes in 28202 zip code) have closed in the last 6 months.

Quick Statistics  $146,000  Lowest price sold ,     $1,275,000   Highest price sold  ,  $332,094    average price ,    $285,000,  median price  and that is last 180 days in a quick MLS search.  

Lowest price in the Silos Loft highest price in a penthouse in the Avenue 

[Hushpuppy321 1696]

The latest report out shows Charlotte at 13th for new apartment starts during 2020 which is not bad.  I am tired though of CLT playing 2nd fiddle to Nashville.  They were like #10 on the list and probably will be ahead of CLT for some time due to Amazon and other business relocations.  I guess bigger isn’t always better...

Edited January 14 by Hushpuppy321

[RANYC 458]

2 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

The latest report out shows Charlotte at 13th for new apartment starts during 2020 which is not bad.  I am tried though of CLT playing 2nd fiddle to Nashville.  They were like #10 on the list and probably will be ahead of CLT for some time due to Amazon and other business relocations.  I guess bigger isn’t always better...

Charlotte is a great town, but no offense, it is in no way a destination city.  Nashville is on people's radars as a place many of them really want to visit, even when they have no family here and no business here.  Charlotte simply isn't that kind of place, as far as I can tell. 

We lack a bustling, vibrant, nationally-renowned go-to district containing any sort of dense, WALKABLE, corridor of an ABUNDANCE in entertainment and indulgent offerings/venues.  Sorry, but South End isn't even close and so far, no part of South End is even branded as having that.  South End is great for local needs, but no one is taking flights to Charlotte strictly to take in South End.  I don't see that changing anytime soon as the city doesn't really want to create a plan around replicating what places like Nashville and Austin have, and perhaps a city plan for something like that really doesn't work...it just has to come about organically.  

[Urban Cowboy 3752]

2 hours ago, RANYC said:

Charlotte is a great town, but no offense, it is in no way a destination city.  Nashville is on people's radars as a place many of them really want to visit, even when they have no family here and no business here.  Charlotte simply isn't that kind of place, as far as I can tell. 

We lack a bustling, vibrant, nationally-renowned go-to district containing any sort of dense, WALKABLE, corridor of an ABUNDANCE in entertainment and indulgent offerings/venues.  Sorry, but South End isn't even close and so far, no part of South End is even branded as having that.  South End is great for local needs, but no one is taking flights to Charlotte strictly to take in South End.  I don't see that changing anytime soon as the city doesn't really want to create a plan around replicating what places like Nashville and Austin have, and perhaps a city plan for something like that really doesn't work...it just has to come about organically.  

Agreed. Charlotte/CRVA leverages the Whitewater Center a lot in their advertising and materials.  And Nascar Hall of Fame (meh). But those don't make Charlotte a destination city. 

The Whitewater Center resonates with me and if I was out of state or hadn't been to Charlotte before, I would incorporate the Center into a Charlotte visit. But would it make me want to visit? Nashville is unique because of the country music/honky tonk vibe that is only rivaled by New Orleans in terms of American cities with unique cultural+musical+drinking identities being THE draw. I'm not including Vegas because it is a playground and lacks authenticity (to me). 

If you want a case study in what TO DO...I think Austin has done a phenomenal job of capturing their city's spirit/essence and marketing it to the masses. When I think of Austin I think of Congress Avenue leading down toward the city, and Zikler Park. And the E. Caesar Chavez area. A burgeoning skyline. What they've been able to market to the masses are simple images that evoke a sense of place. A packed field for SXSW, a brisket coming out of the smoker, cowboy boots walking down Congress. Another example of a smaller market that's kicking our ass in branding is Charleston. 

Charlotte's identity, I feel, is an enigma and we don't have a cohesive voice. And we do a terrible job telling our story, or sharing our identity. If Charlotte was a brand, what would it be? I'm so sick of the Bojangles jokes, etc. But that's what people say. We're a city that so quick to cheer the latest restaurant from another market opening a Charlotte location, that we forget to cheer on and support the homegrown businesses.

The Charlotte I want to visit capitalizes on the following imagery: The light rail pulling into uptown. The Whitewater Center. A rooftop drink at sunset. Around the Crown 10K.  Cranes in South End. Pulled Pork. Yes, Nascar under the lights. Panthers, Hornets, Knights, MLS. Someone busking in Romare Bearden Park. Students at CPCC walking to class while the Gold Line moves past. Someone running along little Sugar Creek. Tubing in the Catawba. An installation at the Mint, exhibit at the Gantt. Street meat on Tryon at lunch time. Optimist Hall and Camp North End. An artist in NoDa. A sign of the times concert or the music factory. Carowinds and the airport. Golf even. 

Our problem is we spend so much time looking at everyone else and how we measure up, that we forget to tell our own story. And so we don't have one on the national scene outside of a nice skyline and banking. 

 

[kermit 11951]

^ Charlotte is the Singapore of the South

(its more boring than most places, we (arguably) have above average food*, and its the place where people from the region go to make their fortunes)

* not sure why I said that. I don't think there is much great to eat here these days.

Edited January 14 by kermit

[KJHburg 68010]

this is about the rental market nationally in urban areas but there is softness in uptown Charlotte with lots of completions coming online very soon with the Ellis and 500 West Trade. 

Plunging City Rents Could Spawn Urban Resurgence | Realtor Magazine