Grand Rapids Public Schools' $216 Million Proposed Plan

[OneSweetWorld]

Can you imagine any other school district taking this attitude? It seems very defeatist; since the students aren't showing up anyway, we'll just change policy to accommodate that, rather than trying to improve the students. Good luck attracting middle class families from the suburbs back to the city.

[jwazzz]

Superintendent Taylor should be fired and any Board members voting for this insanity should be recalled. Telling teenagers they don't have to attend school - brilliant. This is a graduation numbers game and the people responsible should be ashamed of themselves. Unless your diploma says City High, good luck to all future GRPS grads in getting into any decent 4-year college or university. I am a retired veteran of 30 years with the GRPS and I never thought I would say this but I believe it is time for the State to take control - the people we have entrusted are clearly not doing the job.

[snoogit]

I love it. I think the selling point to me is smaller, more personal class sizes. Couple this with the proposal from Gov. Granholm to change the dropout rate to 18, and you have a good system to keep kids in school. We all know that something has to be done, and I can't think of a better plan than this one.

Do all the people voting "no" favor a different plan of action, or do they just want to avoid a tax increase? To those in column B, think about it this way. If the schools get better, your GR property values get better, and you'll recoup the $100+ in increased taxes plus some.

[twoshort]

It seems to me that there is probably more to the story and new policies than it being reported.

[fotoman311]

I agree. It seems impossible that the new policies actually allow student to be absent and fail exams yet still pass as the article implies. Even if it is that simple, for people on this board to take what the local media says at 100% face value is pretty ridiculous.

[GRDadof3]

How I read and understand the issue, in the past, students were graded for tests, marked down for absences as they happened, given a grade for the class based on performance, and THEN the teachers would further reduce the students' grades based on attendance at the end of the school year. Double jeopardy. Now, the grades are considered the student's "property", and not allowed to be touched by the teacher at the end of the school year prior to final report cards.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss....xml&coll=6

IF this is the case, it still seems like there is a serious lack of communication going on at GRPS. Taylor claims that there were many meetings, with teachers and administrators, about the issue prior to implementation. Is this a case of political "gotcha" being played on Taylor by the GRPS teacher's union trying to get him ousted? It all seems so "Dirty Detroit Politics" to me.

[jas49503]

How I read and understand the issue, in the past, students were graded for tests, marked down for absences as they happened, given a grade for the class based on performance, and THEN the teachers would further reduce the students' grades based on attendance at the end of the school year. Double jeopardy. Now, the grades are considered the student's "property", and not allowed to be touched by the teacher at the end of the school year prior to final report cards.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss....xml&coll=6

IF this is the case, it still seems like there is a serious lack of communication going on at GRPS. Taylor claims that there were many meetings, with teachers and administrators, about the issue prior to implementation. Is this a case of political "gotcha" being played on Taylor by the GRPS teacher's union trying to get him ousted? It all seems so "Dirty Detroit Politics" to me.

[ModSquad]

How I read and understand the issue, in the past, students were graded for tests, marked down for absences as they happened, given a grade for the class based on performance, and THEN the teachers would further reduce the students' grades based on attendance at the end of the school year. Double jeopardy. Now, the grades are considered the student's "property", and not allowed to be touched by the teacher at the end of the school year prior to final report cards.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss....xml&coll=6

IF this is the case, it still seems like there is a serious lack of communication going on at GRPS. Taylor claims that there were many meetings, with teachers and administrators, about the issue prior to implementation. Is this a case of political "gotcha" being played on Taylor by the GRPS teacher's union trying to get him ousted? It all seems so "Dirty Detroit Politics" to me.

[jwazzz]

Blaming this shortsighted idea on the GREA is ridiculous.

[ModSquad]

Blaming this shortsighted idea on the GREA is ridiculous.

[PR-15]

I blamed nothing regarding the decision itself on GREA. What I lay solely at the feet of GREA and its incredibly inept leadership is the sensationalizing of the idea with the media, when they had ample opportunity to be a part of the decision making process in numerous meetings when it was discussed but refused to show up.

I wonder if the public truly understands, the top three employees at GREA make $145K to $175 each in annual salary, not including benefits. Paul Helder, the Union President is paid 100% by the GRPS and is given 100% leave from his time as a teacher to serve in this position and yet neither he nor the GREA reps will show up at planning or cabinet meetings that they are invited to and where key issues are discussed regarding the district.

Can you imagine getting paid that much $ and simply not showing up?

[GRDadof3]

Dave...I commend your service to the GRPS in a toxic environment. It can't be easy when the death of common sense is common place. For the last 12 years every superintendent has had a honeymoon period but then the board or the union work to undermine, make them appear to be ineffective or combative, and then they retire or leave for other pastures.

It's frustrating to watch...because there are good people serving the schools but consensus isn't attained long enough for certain changes to take shape...then the finger pointing occurs and it's every person for themselves.

[jwazzz]

I can assure you that the teachers in GRPS also hold their students' interests paramount above their own. It adds nothing to the debate though when the leadership of the GREA is referred to as "incredibly inept." The same could be said about the superintendent's "...my way or the highway" form of management. When teachers work for over a year without a contract and stand up for what they think is right, they are called selfish. When the GRPS administration digs their heels in and refuses to see another side to the argument, they're "putting kids first" and have sole possession of the moral high ground. Once again, I worked for GRPS for 30 years and never have I seen an atmosphere as toxic as this one and that's saying something, considering how high Dr. Newby's tenure raised that bar. Until we stop this finger pointing and start working to improve our schools, the whole city is going to suffer.

[GRDadof3]

I can assure you that the teachers in GRPS also hold their students' interests paramount above their own. It adds nothing to the debate though when the leadership of the GREA is referred to as "incredibly inept." The same could be said about the superintendent's "...my way or the highway" form of management. When teachers work for over a year without a contract and stand up for what they think is right, they are called selfish. When the GRPS administration digs their heels in and refuses to see another side to the argument, they're "putting kids first" and have sole possession of the moral high ground. Once again, I worked for GRPS for 30 years and never have I seen an atmosphere as toxic as this one and that's saying something, considering how high Dr. Newby's tenure raised that bar. Until we stop this finger pointing and start working to improve our schools, the whole city is going to suffer.

[jwazzz]

GRDad - So the GREA is the only one doing the finger pointing? You know that's not true - this is what leads to the toxic environment I referred to. I'm sure that there are GRPS employees who would gladly pay the cab fare for Dr. Taylor to move to your district. And your anti-union slip is showing - you're doing just fine without a contract? Good for you but the way that the school system is structured calls for contracts between the administration and it's employees and to go over a year without one is a testament to the teacher/support staff dedication to the students.

[GR Jackson]

It just seems that the entire system is flawed. Teachers have to pay for and bring their own supplies for the classroom, but they also have a benefits/insurance package that is the envy of everyone in the state. I think the problem of resource allocation cuts across the public sphere.

[ModSquad]

GRDad - So the GREA is the only one doing the finger pointing? You know that's not true - this is what leads to the toxic environment I referred to. I'm sure that there are GRPS employees who would gladly pay the cab fare for Dr. Taylor to move to your district. And your anti-union slip is showing - you're doing just fine without a contract? Good for you but the way that the school system is structured calls for contracts between the administration and it's employees and to go over a year without one is a testament to the teacher/support staff dedication to the students.

[jas49503]

GRDad - So the GREA is the only one doing the finger pointing? You know that's not true - this is what leads to the toxic environment I referred to. I'm sure that there are GRPS employees who would gladly pay the cab fare for Dr. Taylor to move to your district. And your anti-union slip is showing - you're doing just fine without a contract? Good for you but the way that the school system is structured calls for contracts between the administration and it's employees and to go over a year without one is a testament to the teacher/support staff dedication to the students.

[jas49503]

Fourth, it is a testament that the union has been working for over 1 year without a contract, but it is also against the law for teachers to walk out or strike, something which Paul Helder has been advocating lately recently comparing the "plight of GRPS teachers" to the Civil Rights movement.

[Yankee Fan]

You're right, the GREA needs to stop the finger pointing. I would love to have Bernard Taylor as Superintendent of the district we're in. He's a "do-er", not a talker. The mere fact that he is causing so much angst amongst the union gives me the impression that maybe he is finally making some real changes.

And I've been in the workforce for 20 years without a "contract", and doing just fine.

[jas49503]

You cannot come in to a new job and just expect people who have worked here for 20, 30+ years to respect you. You have to show some respect and acknowledgement for the teachers and other support staff who have dedicated their working lives to this work. My personal take is that he has done a really poor job with that. He will be more successful if he actually tries to partner with the union.

[ModSquad]

This has to do with the board trying another experiment. I have this picture in my head of a group of people sitting around just thinking stuff up. This is a half baked idea and the notion that "everyone else in the state is doing it" is a good reason to support it is scary.

[PR-15]

I guess I should respond since I am one of the folks you are suggesting sit around and "think up stuff." Unless you fully understand what the role of a Public School Board of Education is, or take the time to find out what we are working on you should really watch your rhetoric.

First of all the Board of Ed is a policy and procedure board, and to handle financial oversight. Our role is to establish policies to govern the district fairly and within State and Federal law and to ensure that we meet our budgetary obligations. We do not get involved at all in the day to day operations of the district. That is done by the one employee we oversee, which is the superintendent. Although the School Board positions are elected positions they basically do not pay (we get a $200 a month stipend to cover expenses), and are all voluntary. I will be the first to admit that we are not qualified or credentialed in order to run a school district. Therefore we do no "thinking up ideas." The administration looks at how the district is running from an educational, social, and fiscal standpoint and report this to the board.

With this in mind, in regard to the decision that was made about attendance affecting grades, this was presented to the board as a policy issue. The current attendance policy offered no room for interpretation when it came to students that had missed considerable class time due to extenuating circumstances. For example we had one student who is a senior and is 17. Over Christmas break her mother tragically died. This young student had a 3.6 GPA. She is an only child with absolutely no other family to turn to. Because she is 17 she is legally considered an adult, and not a minor. Therefore she could receive no immediate help or support from any agencies. She was literally in every way homeless. This young lady lived with families of school friends and finished her last semester on her own. As you can imagine, during the time she was dealing with the death of her mother and being homeless, she missed a lot of school Nevertheless she worked hard and kept up on her homework. Had we not changed this attendance policy, her GPA would have been dropped for the excessive missed classes, because we would have been violating our policies. We changed the policy, she kept her 3.6 GPA and got a scholarship at U of M in pre-med.

In regard to the district trying "half baked notions, just because everyone else is doing it." The fact remains kids are failing in our district it is a GRPS problem...it is a Grand Rapids problem. Consider the alternative, doing nothing and keeping things the way they are, I believe that too would be highly criticized.

[Yankee Fan]

I guess I should respond since I am one of the folks you are suggesting sit around and "think up stuff." Unless you fully understand what the role of a Public School Board of Education is, or take the time to find out what we are working on you should really watch your rhetoric.

First of all the Board of Ed is a policy and procedure board, and to handle financial oversight. Our role is to establish policies to govern the district fairly and within State and Federal law and to ensure that we meet our budgetary obligations. We do not get involved at all in the day to day operations of the district. That is done by the one employee we oversee, which is the superintendent. Although the School Board positions are elected positions they basically do not pay (we get a $200 a month stipend to cover expenses), and are all voluntary. I will be the first to admit that we are not qualified or credentialed in order to run a school district. Therefore we do no "thinking up ideas." The administration looks at how the district is running from an educational, social, and fiscal standpoint and report this to the board.

With this in mind, in regard to the decision that was made about attendance affecting grades, this was presented to the board as a policy issue. The current attendance policy offered no room for interpretation when it came to students that had missed considerable class time due to extenuating circumstances. For example we had one student who is a senior and is 17. Over Christmas break her mother tragically died. This young student had a 3.6 GPA. She is an only child with absolutely no other family to turn to. Because she is 17 she is legally considered an adult, and not a minor. Therefore she could receive no immediate help or support from any agencies. She was literally in every way homeless. This young lady lived with families of school friends and finished her last semester on her own. As you can imagine, during the time she was dealing with the death of her mother and being homeless, she missed a lot of school Nevertheless she worked hard and kept up on her homework. Had we not changed this attendance policy, her GPA would have been dropped for the excessive missed classes, because we would have been violating our policies. We changed the policy, she kept her 3.6 GPA and got a scholarship at U of M in pre-med.

In regard to the district trying "half baked notions, just because everyone else is doing it." The fact remains kids are failing in our district it is a GRPS problem...it is a Grand Rapids problem. Consider the alternative, doing nothing and keeping things the way they are, I believe that too would be highly criticized.

[ModSquad]

I do fully understand the role of a Public School Board of Education. I stand by what you refer to as rhetoric and I refer to as my opinion.

In response to your point about the current attendence policy: instead of rewriting the entire code, just write in an exception clause for situations like the one that you mention. The point that you make actually proves that the idea was only thought through half way.

I appreciate that you are involved even though you may not be qualified to run the district. But that does not make a policy

decision like this okay. I think that everyone realizes that kids are failing in the district. But why is it that other school districts are not having these problems at the level that the GRPS is having them? They all have kids that have attendance issues, yet they do not seem to be out of control. Why is that?

In any organization, it starts at the top with oversight. Seeing this attendance policy as a good option is bad oversight. That is my opinion and quite frankly the opinion of almost everyone I know. Most of us have kids in the district and see this as a bad idea. Call it rhetoric all you want, but the fact of the matter is that policy decisions like this are what will cause parents to send their kids to other districts. I just do not want to see that happen.