Little Rock vs. NWA

[EJC]

If they actually work in Little Rock and commute, its doubtful that they come out ahead after paying for the cost of fuel (not to mention the time!) traveling back and forth. If fuel costs maintain this level - and it appears, unfortunately, that it might - this will begin to have an impact on this 30 year trend of suburban flight.

[Architect]

However, many that leave LR do so because they actually like suburban living (hard to swallow for some of you I know) and because they feel more secure in the school situation. There's a "price" people are obviously willing to pay for that too, but it's harder to quantify.

[hogwash]

The reason I love where I live, Capitol View, is I am 3 minutes from work in downtown. I never have to deal with interstate traffic or much congestion period. The Kavanaugh Kroger is only a short distance away. Its safe. The houses have charm. I can see downtown from my house. Its affordable... I may not have a 1800-2000 Sq ft home, but I have enough for 2 people and 2 dogs.

Having previously lived in Fayetteville and worked in Bentonville and later Fayetteville, I hated dealing with all the traffic everywhere.

Its feels like utopia. almost...

[bchris02]

The reason I love where I live, Capitol View, is I am 3 minutes from work in downtown. I never have to deal with interstate traffic or much congestion period. The Kavanaugh Kroger is only a short distance away. Its safe. The houses have charm. I can see downtown from my house. Its affordable... I may not have a 1800-2000 Sq ft home, but I have enough for 2 people and 2 dogs.

Having previously lived in Fayetteville and worked in Bentonville and later Fayetteville, I hated dealing with all the traffic everywhere.

Its feels like utopia. almost...

[Aporkalypse]

NWA, as it keeps growing, will continue to see more and more infrastructure problems because the growth has been anything but smart. An area that size shouldn't have the traffic problems it does.

[bchris02]

Most cities, including LR, function as a wheel and spoke road system with a central downtown with dense employment and ways for commuters to reach this from many directions. NWA developed in linear fashion with most of the jobs on one end. There's just no good way to fix that except to disperse the jobs and centralize things better.

[Mith242]

Yeah it is ironic that in most areas of the world the most desirable areas to live is in the city centers. Where as in the US seems like everyone wants to be in the suburbs. But if there is major oil problems and such it won't just be the NWA that has problems. I'd say most American cities are going to be in bad shape. While Little Rock is certainly more dense and has a true central core, it's going to have it's own problems as well. I believe in the late 90's Little Rock was mentioned as being rather high in the growth of sprawl.

[Aporkalypse]

Yeah it is ironic that in most areas of the world the most desirable areas to live is in the city centers. Where as in the US seems like everyone wants to be in the suburbs. But if there is major oil problems and such it won't just be the NWA that has problems. I'd say most American cities are going to be in bad shape. While Little Rock is certainly more dense and has a true central core, it's going to have it's own problems as well. I believe in the late 90's Little Rock was mentioned as being rather high in the growth of sprawl.

[bchris02]

Yeah it is ironic that in most areas of the world the most desirable areas to live is in the city centers. Where as in the US seems like everyone wants to be in the suburbs. But if there is major oil problems and such it won't just be the NWA that has problems. I'd say most American cities are going to be in bad shape. While Little Rock is certainly more dense and has a true central core, it's going to have it's own problems as well. I believe in the late 90's Little Rock was mentioned as being rather high in the growth of sprawl.

[Architect]

The baby boom generation after WWII grew up largely in the suburbs, and since then its been embedded into our national culture. Living in the suburbs today is just as "American" as baseball and Thanksgiving. City living has its niche with affluent professionals, but people in general still prefer the suburbs no matter where you go.

[turboturtle]

But what I'm afraid history will prove out over the next 20 years is that just because we CAN (spread out over God's green earth) doesn't mean that we SHOULD! There is no question that the mentality of continual sprawl is economically (and environmentally) unsustainable in the very near future.

[Aporkalypse]

I think generally this is correct, but the singular driver of this cultural shift was the desire for freedom of movement that was ENABLED by the vast growth of wealth and income of America post-WWII. But what I'm afraid history will prove out over the next 20 years is that just because we CAN (spread out over God's green earth) doesn't mean that we SHOULD! There is no question that the mentality of continual sprawl is economically (and environmentally) unsustainable in the very near future.

But today, do you really think most people find this lifestyle appealing - I mean, deep down? I suppose its comfortable on some level, but traffic, crime and (perceived) school problems have become just as pervasive there (in many cases), not to mention the added hassle (driving distance and cost of fuel). In essence, its just a mirage for a utopia that doesn't really exist - or cannot practically exist in the long run. I guess I'm one of those people that just don't get the upside, if any, of suburbia.

[bchris02]

But today, do you really think most people find this lifestyle appealing - I mean, deep down? I suppose its comfortable on some level, but traffic, crime and (perceived) school problems have become just as pervasive there (in many cases), not to mention the added hassle (driving distance and cost of fuel). In essence, its just a mirage for a utopia that doesn't really exist - or cannot practically exist in the long run. I guess I'm one of those people that just don't get the upside, if any, of suburbia.

[Architect]

A guy I work with who lives in Conway says he will never move to Little Rock no matter how high gas gets because LR has too much crime, traffic, and poor schools. This sums up how a lot of suburbanites feel about their core city nationwide. You have three generations (boomers, Xers, and now millennials) raised in the suburbs and it is embedded in their blood. The "American dream" is owning a McMansion in a cul-de-sac with an SUV.

[Aporkalypse]

A guy I work with who lives in Conway says he will never move to Little Rock no matter how high gas gets because LR has too much crime, traffic, and poor schools. This sums up how a lot of suburbanites feel about their core city nationwide. You have three generations (boomers, Xers, and now millennials) raised in the suburbs and it is embedded in their blood. The "American dream" is owning a McMansion in a cul-de-sac with an SUV.

[abdintp]

There are also a lot of folks who think that driving 30 minutes to get to a decent restaurant is ludicrous and that suburban schools produce average students, not Ivy Leaguers.

Yet the net it still going to suburbanization. That said I live in a McMansion in a cul de sac and have an SUV, so maybe I should shut up about it.

[hogwash]

I think it would be safe to say that he, like many others, show ignorance by blanket statements like that. Yes, LR has more crime than Conway, but better schools and less traffic? That's debatable.

The point here is not to debate the very real preference he might have for suburbs (Conway) for various reason - which is his right, though I don't share them - but that he's written it off. Ill-informed and unenlightened. Pretty sad...do these people not realize that they exacerbated, if not caused - by leaving - the very problem with the cities they so detest?

[bchris02]

You know it really is strange how people living outside Little Rock hate it so much.

[Aporkalypse]

You know it really is strange how people living outside Little Rock hate it so much.

[Aporkalypse]

Oh I know. I've never seen anybody hate on Little Rock as much as NWA residents do. They want to bring up Gang Wars Bangin in Little Rock any chance they get.

[Stormcrow]

I agree that the Little Rock metro should be in for some serious growth pretty soon. Unfortunately I feel that a majority of it will be in Benton/Bryant, Conway, or Cabot. I would like to see Little Rock experience a growth spurt that would push it over the 200,000 mark. That is a psycological milestone that would move our city into the next tier. How soon do you think this would be possible?

In addition to the schools and crime, many people I work with say they live outside Pulaski county because of cheaper housing.

[EJC]

I think that the trend toward suburbanization is one with tremendous power, political and social, but I see in many young people an absolute revulsion of the idea of living in the surburbs. I think it will still be very hard to get many Millennials (as it were) out of their cars, but many of you I feel underestimate the interest in urban living that the new generation possesses.

Also, I won't argue that there won't be plenty of people from my (young) generation who still choose suburbia (almost all Americans are addicted to convenience), but they will not be the force that left for the suburbs in the post-war years nor the stubbornly oil-addicted Boomers.

[Aporkalypse]

I'd love to see that happen as well. IMO the only real thing stopping it is the LRSD. No matter what people's personal opinions are about it, it does tend to get in the way of some who move to LR. They get told by one or two people about the school's and all of sudden they're frightened of living in the city proper. Upon my relocation back to here, we chose Maumelle so I could be within biking distance to work but otherwise we'd probably have gone over the river. I think if LR could shore up the school's reputation then you'd see a lot of people coming back and most relocators would stay within the city as well. I think with all the new job potential, we'll hit that 200k mark at around 10 years out but I think it could much more quickly if the city could market itself.

[Mith242]

Of course, living in Conway, Saline Co or Cabot offers most of the same pluses as NWA to that group. The makeup of these communities is similar to that of NWA and you have the luxury of having Little Rock nearby. There are a lot of political dynamics, jealousy and other issues that play into that. Sometimes that works both ways, a lot of LR residents aren't keen on NWA's growth or the attention it garnered.

[Stormcrow]

Virtually all of the city of LR's current growth is in the Pulaski County SSD, including the neighborhoods of Chenal. Those schools don't offer the academic excellence that Parkview and Central do but they do have some incentives, and you can go to Mills which has been nationally ranked. I have to wonder if Robinson will fundamentally change in the next decade as the city marches west.

I can't help but think that when growth pushes Robinson to renovate and expand it will improve and that will fuel future growth in the area. I also think, FWIW, that moving the Oak Grove schools to Maumelle and that new campus will fuel more growth in Maumelle that would've gone outside the county otherwise.

Anyway, I can see the Hwy 10/Chenal/West Pulaski area growing and that pushing LR over 200,000. Growth has to more than offset loss of inner city population, though. LR has never stopped growing, unlike our neighbors - Jackson, Shreveport, New Orleans, Birmingham, and Springfield. However, growth has been very slow because inner city losses are enough to compensate for most of the growth.