Little Rock vs. NWA

[bchris02]

But since I don't live in Little Rock, what seems to be the negative perception of NWA there?

[Aporkalypse]

I was of the idea that the new high school to be built in Maumelle was not an Oak Grove replacement. Was I mistaken?

[Aporkalypse]

Yeah that's where the big shame is. The two major metros of Arkansas don't exactly get along. As you have pointed out before in the past. If the two metros could work together they could wield a lot of political influence in the state. They could change policy and start changing some of the strong influences of the rural aspects. Having lived in NWA for quite a while it's not too hard to notice the 'dislike' people seem to have towards Little Rock. But since I don't live in Little Rock, what seems to be the negative perception of NWA there? I know here on UP a number of people will mention the lack of a true urban center and the urban/suburban aspect. But I doubt most people in Little Rock would say that's the reason they don't like NWA. I've just assumed there's been perhaps some backlash about in the past the whole state basically revolved around Little Rock. But now there's another metro that's getting big enough to buck the trend. But like I said, that's just me taking a wild stab at it.

[Architect]

Yeah that's where the big shame is. The two major metros of Arkansas don't exactly get along. As you have pointed out before in the past. If the two metros could work together they could wield a lot of political influence in the state. They could change policy and start changing some of the strong influences of the rural aspects. Having lived in NWA for quite a while it's not too hard to notice the 'dislike' people seem to have towards Little Rock. But since I don't live in Little Rock, what seems to be the negative perception of NWA there? I know here on UP a number of people will mention the lack of a true urban center and the urban/suburban aspect. But I doubt most people in Little Rock would say that's the reason they don't like NWA. I've just assumed there's been perhaps some backlash about in the past the whole state basically revolved around Little Rock. But now there's another metro that's getting big enough to buck the trend. But like I said, that's just me taking a wild stab at it.

[Mith242]

Very interesting, I guess I hadn't even really considered the sports aspect to it. As far as NWA's dislike of Little Rock, I think some of it seems to be people thinking big urban center = crime infested area. Which maybe why all the NWA cities seem to be clinging to a more suburban style style of life. Another aspect I think is the fact Little Rock is the state capital and the seat of state government. I think people in NWA have felt somewhat isolated by the state government. As if NWA isn't 'taken care of' by the politicians and bureaucrats. I'm not positive but it seems like I remember reading something about the Scots-Irish tending to be distrustful of government in general. The Ozarks being settled by Scots-Irish that had originally settled in the Appalachians. Although to be honest I think the make up of NWA is different than much of the rest of the Ozark. Maybe even some if it goes back to Civil War times or even early statehood. I seem to recall something about there being more white male citizens in the hilly areas of the state than the flatlands. Yet the 'flatlanders' managed to get 'control' by counting slaves as a part of a person. Therefore being able to gain an upperhand political control of the state. Anyway some of this is a stretch, but just throwing out some possible ideas to where this disliking comes from.

[bchris02]

Very interesting, I guess I hadn't even really considered the sports aspect to it. As far as NWA's dislike of Little Rock, I think some of it seems to be people thinking big urban center = crime infested area. Which maybe why all the NWA cities seem to be clinging to a more suburban style style of life. Another aspect I think is the fact Little Rock is the state capital and the seat of state government. I think people in NWA have felt somewhat isolated by the state government. As if NWA isn't 'taken care of' by the politicians and bureaucrats. I'm not positive but it seems like I remember reading something about the Scots-Irish tending to be distrustful of government in general. The Ozarks being settled by Scots-Irish that had originally settled in the Appalachians. Although to be honest I think the make up of NWA is different than much of the rest of the Ozark. Maybe even some if it goes back to Civil War times or even early statehood. I seem to recall something about there being more white male citizens in the hilly areas of the state than the flatlands. Yet the 'flatlanders' managed to get 'control' by counting slaves as a part of a person. Therefore being able to gain an upperhand political control of the state. Anyway some of this is a stretch, but just throwing out some possible ideas to where this disliking comes from.

[Mith242]

Thats an interesting analysis. Remember that most of NWA today are transplants, whether from other parts of Arkansas or from other parts of the country. Never thought about the historical aspect of it. I think Arkansans has been historically anti-urban in general. I do think Architect's explanation is more likely. I don't remember near as much distaste before the boom and of course, Gang Wars Bangin in Little Rock.

[hogwash]

Having lived in NWA, the thing that bothered me most was the arrogance/ignorance. I don't know how many times I spoke with someone who said they hated Little Rock, but all they had to base that impression off of was a field trip in school or a football game. That wasn't always the case though. The other thing I always heard was about crime and then they'd always argue NWA economically drove the state.

[bchris02]

One thing that I think could help Little Rock's image is continuing urban renewal downtown. The river market area is nice, but some of downtown, especially Main St. is still very blighted. I think to an outsider, Fayetteville's charming downtown might seem safer. I hope one day we see River Market style renewal all over downtown. As far as entertainment, how does Dickson St compare to the River Market anyways?

[Stormcrow]

One thing that I think could help Little Rock's image is continuing urban renewal downtown. The river market area is nice, but some of downtown, especially Main St. is still very blighted. I think to an outsider, Fayetteville's charming downtown might seem safer. I hope one day we see River Market style renewal all over downtown. As far as entertainment, how does Dickson St compare to the River Market anyways?

[hogwash]

One thing that I think could help Little Rock's image is continuing urban renewal downtown. The river market area is nice, but some of downtown, especially Main St. is still very blighted. I think to an outsider, Fayetteville's charming downtown might seem safer. I hope one day we see River Market style renewal all over downtown. As far as entertainment, how does Dickson St compare to the River Market anyways?

[ndark]

I personally prefer Dickson St, but again that's based on more than the quality of tenants or entertainment.

[hogwash]

I prefer the RM but I think that is because I am not in college anymore or party like I once did. The two areas are different. They cater to different crowds or at least that is how it seemed to me back when I was a frequent at both locations. Dickson is for the college crowd which is understandable since it is so close to campus and fraternity houses are just a block or two away.

[Mith242]

I'm not an expert on the River Market but both it and Dickson St are by far the two major entertainment districts in the state. I would agree that they do cater to different crowds, so it's not always easy to make direct comparisons.

[Aporkalypse]

I'm not an expert on the River Market but both it and Dickson St are by far the two major entertainment districts in the state. I would agree that they do cater to different crowds, so it's not always easy to make direct comparisons.

[Mith242]

I agree. I love Dickson before/after a game but on a random night it makes me feel 80 (I'm 32). Dickson is a college bar row first and serves other purposes. The River Market is more of a mixed-age crowd and I think some of the bars have a bit more character because of that, though like Hogwash I like Brewski's. I think both places are more than you would expect out of cities this size. Both could use more restaurants and a lot more retail. Dickson needs more residential.

I am concerned about the threat to move the Walton Arts Center to Benton Co. I think that would be folly of epic proportions. LR has been trying its best to consolidate as much as possible near downtown in a central cluster, NWA is doing its best to spread it all out. The Arts Center just seems to be in a perfect location to grow and expand in relevance.

[Aporkalypse]

Yeah Dickson could use more residential. But it seems what developers built is very expensive condos. I know land is pricey around there, but still. I imagine the building height restriction also hurts.

Yeah it would be great if we could try to centrally locate more of the amenities and such. But that's the bad thing of when you have a handful of cities with none of them dominate. The other cities want 'their share of the pie' and will do what they can to get some of those amenities relocated to their city so that they can grow their tax revenue at the expense of another city.

[Stormcrow]

Well, Benton Co wants all of the pie. They don't want to share.

[gthog61]

Back to the suburbia vs. city center part of the thread, what percentage of people in a metro area actually live way out and work all the way in the city center? I'll bet it isn't as much as it is hyped to be. There are lots of good jobs nowhere near city centers such that a person can live in suburbia and not use a lot of gas and not hassle with a lot of traffic. I live in Irving and spend most of my time within 8 miles of my home. Dallas and Ft. Worth are there when I need them for something. The idea that gas prices will cause lots of people to flee back to city centers is backwards. I believe more jobs will move to where people live. The condo conversions you see in downtowns may attract young people for awhile but I can't imagine large numbers of people wanting to raise families in what amounts to a pricey and glorified hamster habitat.

[hogwash]

Back to the suburbia vs. city center part of the thread, what percentage of people in a metro area actually live way out and work all the way in the city center? I'll bet it isn't as much as it is hyped to be. There are lots of good jobs nowhere near city centers such that a person can live in suburbia and not use a lot of gas and not hassle with a lot of traffic. I live in Irving and spend most of my time within 8 miles of my home. Dallas and Ft. Worth are there when I need them for something. The idea that gas prices will cause lots of people to flee back to city centers is backwards. I believe more jobs will move to where people live. The condo conversions you see in downtowns may attract young people for awhile but I can't imagine large numbers of people wanting to raise families in what amounts to a pricey and glorified hamster habitat.

[Aporkalypse]

You are refering to edge cities. With the exception of Conway, LR doesn't have any edge cities. DFW is vastly different from LR. I don't think you are going to see major employers fleeing to Saline and Lonoke counties.

However, my parents live in Benton and work in Benton and Bryant. But they've lived in Benton since the 70s, and my paternal side of the family has roots in Saline county going back to the 1860s. I don't think my family is typical.

[Aporkalypse]

Since we seldom throw any actual facts into the discussion, I found this article on FOX16's website today...

Central Arkansas is one of the fastest growing areas of the country. The Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers area came in at number 52, but Little Rock-North Little Rock and Conway aren't far behind at 66 adding nine-thousand new people from July 2006 to July 2007.

Central Arkansas is on the grow, and the North Little Rock Chamber of Commerce knows the reason why. "When you're thinking about living some place where you can raise a family, where you can make a good living, houses are a good price, why wouldn't you consider central Arkansas, Little Rock, North Little Rock?" says chamber president Terry Hartwick.

Although the Fayetteville area saw its population jump about three-thousand more people than central Arkansas, Hartwick is not worried. "I guess what we're saying we're catching them aren't we?" adds Hartwick.

Main Street Argenta is home to tons of new restaurants and businesses and it's not the only place that's booming. In the past month alone, two new companies announced bringing three-hundred jobs to Little Rock. This on top of LM Glasfiber's decision to add one-thousand new jobs over the next five years. The Little Rock chamber chair says there's a reason companies choose Little Rock.

"We're having new parks, new bike trails, things that people like to get out and do and they do look for that when they come to cities," says Elizabeth Small.

Hartwick agrees saying it's all about quality of life. "I can remember growing up, my daddy lived where there was work, now people want to live where they can raise a family, you know, and have a good time and enjoy their life," says Hartwick.

Hartwick says since commute times are shorter here than they are in a city like Dallas, that just makes more people want to move here for the convenience.

Most are in the south and west. And if you're wondering about shrinking cities, Detroit lost more than 27-thousand people, three times the loss of any other city.

[hogwash]

Since we seldom throw any actual facts into the discussion, I found this article on FOX16's website today...

Central Arkansas is one of the fastest growing areas of the country. The Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers area came in at number 52, but Little Rock-North Little Rock and Conway aren't far behind at 66 adding nine-thousand new people from July 2006 to July 2007.

Central Arkansas is on the grow, and the North Little Rock Chamber of Commerce knows the reason why. "When you're thinking about living some place where you can raise a family, where you can make a good living, houses are a good price, why wouldn't you consider central Arkansas, Little Rock, North Little Rock?" says chamber president Terry Hartwick.

Although the Fayetteville area saw its population jump about three-thousand more people than central Arkansas, Hartwick is not worried. "I guess what we're saying we're catching them aren't we?" adds Hartwick.

Main Street Argenta is home to tons of new restaurants and businesses and it's not the only place that's booming. In the past month alone, two new companies announced bringing three-hundred jobs to Little Rock. This on top of LM Glasfiber's decision to add one-thousand new jobs over the next five years. The Little Rock chamber chair says there's a reason companies choose Little Rock.

"We're having new parks, new bike trails, things that people like to get out and do and they do look for that when they come to cities," says Elizabeth Small.

Hartwick agrees saying it's all about quality of life. "I can remember growing up, my daddy lived where there was work, now people want to live where they can raise a family, you know, and have a good time and enjoy their life," says Hartwick.

Hartwick says since commute times are shorter here than they are in a city like Dallas, that just makes more people want to move here for the convenience.

Most are in the south and west. And if you're wondering about shrinking cities, Detroit lost more than 27-thousand people, three times the loss of any other city.

[johnnydr87]

This is the census table the story referred to.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/re...08-49table1.xls

[CentralArkansas]

I found the excel sheet ordered by percentage gain (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/re...08-49table2.xls). Fayetteville is ranked 27th, and Little Rock's not even ranked in the top 100. In other words, if you're going for substantive population growth, Fayetteville beat the pants off of Little Rock.