What Would it Take in Downtown Greenville?

[motonenterprises]

It seems that a majority of us want to see that signature tower built in downtown Greenville. Most of us are indeed urban enthusiast or else we wouldn't be on here. I ride around just to see whats going on. Then I ride to other cities to see what we're missing. What would it take for us to build that signature tower? The one that would stand out and make visitors say wow! We have all different walks of life here. Some are realtors. Some are contractors. You get the point. Some of us know what it takes, and some like myself don't. I personally am in the technical field at GE, but have been around the block. What I'm saying is, there are thousands of us here interested in the same things. Some have expertise and some have money, but some have them both! Not saying thats me. What I'm saying is, what would happen if we united and did something? Would other local investors be interested? Could we lure in bigger investors? What would happen if we met and got to know and trust each other? We have the biggest investment group here! I just don't want to lead it. That doesn't mean I'm not willing to if no one else does. We may not have much power and money apart, but together we're unstoppable! So do we have an urbanplanet upstate meeting? If so where is it? Lets talk about it! Lets do something even if its just backing these other investors! I apologize if anyone has already tried this, but I'm just in a moment of inspiration and want to do something. I just know I can't do it alone. My pockets aren't deep enough and I lack expertise. Thanks for reading and please chime in.

[TREY]

It seems that a majority of us want to see that signature tower built in downtown Greenville. Most of us are indeed urban enthusiast or else we wouldn't be on here. I ride around just to see whats going on. Then I ride to other cities to see what we're missing. What would it take for us to build that signature tower? The one that would stand out and make visitors say wow! We have all different walks of life here. Some are realtors. Some are contractors. You get the point. Some of us know what it takes, and some like myself don't. I personally am in the technical field at GE, but have been around the block. What I'm saying is, there are thousands of us here interested in the same things. Some have expertise and some have money, but some have them both! Not saying thats me. What I'm saying is, what would happen if we united and did something? Would other local investors be interested? Could we lure in bigger investors? What would happen if we met and got to know and trust each other? We have the biggest investment group here! I just don't want to lead it. That doesn't mean I'm not willing to if no one else does. We may not have much power and money apart, but together we're unstoppable! So do we have an urbanplanet upstate meeting? If so where is it? Lets talk about it! Lets do something even if its just backing these other investors! I apologize if anyone has already tried this, but I'm just in a moment of inspiration and want to do something. I just know I can't do it alone. My pockets aren't deep enough and I lack expertise. Thanks for reading and please chime in.

[GvilleSC]

I can't think of a better way to spend my rebate check! I'm just a student, but I think it'd be pretty cool if it were possible for the UPers to pull something like this off...

[motonenterprises]

Hey its possible! There's hundreds, maybe even thousands of enthusiast in just the upstate board alone. We could probably start with a poster meeting somewhere in town.

[gvegascple]

It seems that a majority of us want to see that signature tower built in downtown Greenville. Most of us are indeed urban enthusiast or else we wouldn't be on here. I ride around just to see whats going on. Then I ride to other cities to see what we're missing. What would it take for us to build that signature tower?

[goodbye]

...I ride around just to see whats going on. Then I ride to other cities to see what we're missing...

[motonenterprises]

Thats a good point! Its just a thought though, that if we really want something we can band together and at least show our support. We can't blame these investors. Its their money on the line and they take the brunt of the hit if things don't work out. Either way though Greenville is still impressive and will become more so. I just wish I knew how to get in the mix.

[RestedTraveler]

We all want to be the change we wish to see in the world... It's all good.

[breed]

I hate to be so serious for a Friday post but...

What it would take is for there to be a dearth of class A and B office space downtown, zero real estate alternatives outside of downtown, and a complete saturation of all existing plots downtown coupled with a thriving economy and low construction/loan costs.

If a high rise was built when it was cheaper to build a campus, you would start out with something worth less than you paid for it. If there were alternative sites and offices competing with your high rise, you would not fill your building and cause you to lose money. Your empty building would then adversely effect the economic conditions of other downtown tennants.

There is a delicate balance required to maintain a thriving downtown and is definately not as simple as "build it and they will come." That mantra has been the cause of many a bankruptcy in the past ten years.

We have quite the signature already, the Liberty Bridge and Park over the Reedy River. If you want something tall and signature-esque, I think we perhaps could think about something more artistic and less functional like a Spire or Arch. That would fit nicely into the gateway spot but would unfortunately not generete any revenue (therefore not very likely to happen), but it would give you all of the items that you seek above.

Our current midrise mixed-use plans that focus on preserving Greenville architure are working very well as the precurser to better things that may take another 25 years to evolve/develop properly.

[Greenville]

A very well-reasoned post... we have to have alot more development and demand before a "signature tower" can be built on a whim. Given the change that the banking industry is undergoing, it is only going to become more difficult... not only in Greenville, but in markets where it is a more realistic proposition.

I think we are better-off trying to focus on quality mixed-use properties... ala Riverplace, McBee Station, etc... properties that may lack in providing trophy-like visibility, but they make up for in spades by providing organic growth to downtown.

Interestingly, our tallest buildings are all plagued with high vacancy rates (Landmark, BofA, Liberty Square). It doesn't bode well for a new one to be built.

[Spartan]

Lots of good points here. I will start by saying what I always say. Skyscrapers are not what makes a downtown. They are cool to look at, but ultimately its everything else that makes a downtown great. Greenville is in the unique position in that it already has most everything else. Obviously a few things are lacking (eg: the "next level" thread) but its pretty freaking good as it is.

On to my point. I think that for a true signature tower what it comes down to is demand for downtown real estate and a lack of alternatives within downtown. The suburban markets are somewhat irrelevant (though not entirely). Breed makes the best point so far- the current supply of office space in downtown has relatively high vacancy rates. That will have to be fixed. Fill up those towers (it may take a major rehab?) and then I think the other towers will come. It will also require luring companies that are not manufacturers (Michelin) to downtown. Carolina First would have been the best candidate in recent memory. Their location in Greenville is great, but their location outside of downtown is very unfortunate.

If you Gville folks really want to be proactive and make a bigger impact on the community from the grassroots level, I suggest taking a look at our Grand Rapids, Michigan forum. This video is an example of the type of things they are doing (and a good video promo for UP too). The GR forum is one of the most active on the site, and they get a lot of support from their community.

Ultimately its up to you to get things going. I will be glad to do anything I can to help from the UP side of things.

[breed]

You don't seem too bullish on the Gateway towers, unless you feel that the hotel/residential component is an exception.

Remember, their market studies were very encouraging (even surprisingly so). Assuming that the studies were well done, we shouldn't see a problem with the Gateway towers coming to fruition.

[GvilleSC]

One thing that I think that this Gateway project could hit a home run is on the residential side. The success of McBee Station proves that the market for rental units is out there. (Are they planning on going rental?) I think that with the combination of height and the low price of the site, they have an opportunity to hit lower price points that may not be feasible anywhere else.

[gvegascple]

The success of McBee Station proves that the market for rental units is out there. (Are they planning on going rental?) I think that with the combination of height and the low price of the site, they have an opportunity to hit lower price points that may not be feasible anywhere else.

[vicupstate]

Are all of the units rented at McBee Station? It does not appear so from the empty balconies on the back side. Also, I believe these are renting at around $1 per sq. ft. I dont think you can build a high rise on those numbers. McBee Station is a tinderbox with hardly any steel or concrete reinforcement. A 40 story McBee Station, terrifies me.

[erm1981]

I wouldnt want to live in Mcbee station after watching the horrible craftsmenship of the workers that built it. Some of the walls are a foot out of square with other ones. Very bad craftsmanship. To the untrained eye you probably wouldnt tell though so no worry....right?

[breed]

You can't go above 4-5 floors without some concrete and/or steel, so no worry there. I think McBee Station STARTED at about $1.00 a foot, but quikly rose from there. My guess is it is more like $1.15-1.20 now. Also, as a high-rise the Gateway project could justify going higher than McBee Station. Also, it is common for a building to be built as rental, the developers gets certain tax breaks for five years, then converts to condos, doing some upgrades (flooring, counters,etc.) at the point of conversion.

My guess though is that this project, if it makes, will be for sale units from the beginning.

[goodbye]

I wouldnt want to live in Mcbee station after watching the horrible craftsmenship of the workers that built it. Some of the walls are a foot out of square with other ones. Very bad craftsmanship. To the untrained eye you probably wouldnt tell though so no worry....right?