Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[ah59396]

 

 

I want it.

[Guest]

With great cunning and skill, I succesully infiltrated the Chamber of Commerce meeting on the project and saw with my own eyes the head of NCDOT's infamous Division 10. They spoke of the hard work needed to attain the insidious sounding TIGER funds. Looks like they are setting up the first prepatory station before the main one. It will have a capacity of 200 seats and about 168 parking spots. The planning department was conspicuously absent from the meeting.

I now have full access to the building and will report updates as necessary until exposed.

[ChessieCat]

I still don't know why NCDOT continues to waste their time with the current location including a "prepartory station" at the site.  

The station Dub1 proposed at the southeast corner of Charlotte yard would rest in CATS-owned propery and would be much easier to build.  Most importantly, CATS/NCDOT would not have to consult Norfolk Southern on every nitpicky issue.  And remember, the first thing that NS wants is the grade separation at Graham Interlocking (ADM) and the funding for that was re-allocated by NCDOT years ago...

[DEnd]

The Graham interlock (ADM) is still a problem.  It (or another solution) is needed for the SEHSR to Atlanta, and possible Columbia route.  It would also basically lock in street car routing for the uptown portion of an airport line as well.  Charlotte Yard would also likely need the streetcar to be rescored in relation to its projected ridership, and may mean the blue line would need more capacity that would only be used on a small portion of its route.

[allthingsplanes]

I have a question regarding the railroad improvements in Harrisburg.  The new bridges over the rail lines are behind (no surprise) but I see differing information about when the work should be completed.  Specifically for the Roberta Rd. ext bridge.  I keep hearing it will be complete late fall 2015 but the NCDOT website also mentions late 2016.  Will that work really take another year?  The crossing / intersections for Robinson Church are so bad - I can't see it continuing for another year.  Any insights would be appreciated.

[kermit]

Its been a while since I have seen the work in Harrisburg but I drive past the work on Old Concord every day. Rail construction can be deceiving, the civil work usually takes AGES to complete. But once the dirt moving is done (and it nearly is from Junker to Back Creek), pouring new ballast and setting rails happens VERY quickly. I would not be surprised to see rail construction in Mecklenburg (other than Sugar Creek and 36th st) be done this Fall. None of this is very relevant to the Robinson Ch overpass (sorry).

The 2016 date is the drop dead date for the stimulus-funded project. If the project (rail and new grade crossings) is not complete by the end of 2016 then NCDOT (in theory) must pay the money back to the feds. From what I hear everything is progressing more-or-less as planned -- but I think NCDOT has always planned to take their time on this whole project. I am surprised we have not seen more movement on the passenger equipment storage and service yard at Summit yet, but there is not much work to do there other than setting new rail.   

[birky]

I still don't know why NCDOT continues to waste their time with the current location including a "prepartory station" at the site.  

The station Dub1 proposed at the southeast corner of Charlotte yard would rest in CATS-owned propery and would be much easier to build.  Most importantly, CATS/NCDOT would not have to consult Norfolk Southern on every nitpicky issue.  And remember, the first thing that NS wants is the grade separation at Graham Interlocking (ADM) and the funding for that was re-allocated by NCDOT years ago...

Do the long-term benefits of putting the main transit hub in Uptown outweigh the short-term benefits of putting the hub in NoDa?  If we're thinking real long-term here, like 100-200 years, I would think so.

[Spartan]

I wouldn't worry about something that far out. In 100-200 years we'll be on our 7th or 8th train station. 

[dcharlotte]

I wouldn't worry about something that far out. In 100-200 years we'll be on our 7th or 8th train station. 

Not at the pace NC builds them. We'll still have the same thing, just aged too much to recognize. 

[Spartan]

Good point. I was thinking of it more in terms of the pace Charlotte tears "old" things down. 

[ChessieCat]

Do the long-term benefits of putting the main transit hub in Uptown outweigh the short-term benefits of putting the hub in NoDa?  If we're thinking real long-term here, like 100-200 years, I would think so.

When you mean Uptown, do you mean the current proposed Gateway station in 3rd/4th Ward?  That can't effectively proceed without the grade separation at Graham Interlocking (ADM) first...

[Third Strike]

NC released their comprehensive rail plan last month:

North Carolina Comprehensive State Rail Plan

Here's a couple of points of interest:

• Possible new stations at Harrisburg and Lexington. Construction of the Gateway Station should happen sometime during the 2020s.
• New passenger rail between Asheville and Salisbury, along with a new stop at Statesville. Looking at a timeframe between 2020 and 2035.
• Examining all potential corridors for commuter rail (to Gastonia, Monroe, Rock Hill, Mooresville, Concord, and Mt Holly).
• Grade separation along the CSX line from Charlotte to Monroe (finally a grade separation for Plaza-Midwood?), along with possible passenger service to Wilmington.
• Improvements on CSX "S" Line between Raleigh and Richmond. This is needed for the planned HSR in the state.

[SgtCampsalot]

^^^Great news on all counts. This is one thing McCrory is great at.

[15895]

^^^Great news on all counts. This is one thing McCrory is great at.

Amtrak?

[SgtCampsalot]

Amtrak?

Pushing for infrastructure improvements for more than just highways.

[Third Strike]

Since the state has put a cap on light rail for now, maybe all three Piedmont metros can start moving towards using the NCRR for commuting rail. Several towns along this stretch already have stations for Amtrak, which could be shared with a commuter stop. Smaller depots can be constructed at the intermediate towns, until more funding is saved up for a larger station. Though, many NC towns still have their original stations, which could be renovated into modern use. Rolling stock would also be a large cost for such a project, but perhaps a grant from the federal government could help.

This project, the Gateway Station, and smaller expansions to the Gold Line, are really the only feasible projects I see in the foreseeable future, until most of the toxic NCGA are booted out.

[SgtCampsalot]

This project, the Gateway Station, and smaller expansions to the Gold Line, are really the only feasible projects I see in the foreseeable future, until most of the toxic NCGA are booted out.

If that's not an argument for pushing forward the Gold Line in the divisive debates over it, I don't know what is. Silver Line can't happen, and who knows when NS will play friendly for the Red Line.

 

 

[kermit]

^ I agree with you about what is possible under the current legislature. Although I'll add that I think the Red Line has a small chance of happening. If NS decides to be generous with trackage rights (a very slim possibility, but...), and a way is found to get federal funding for the line (the funding requirements have changed substantially since CATS initially decided that fed funding was impossible), then I could imagine the state chipping in for a portion of project costs in an effort to distract attention from the toll road contract. The GOP budget clause only zeroed out money for "light rail", the red line is heavy rail  (this is not a subtle or debatable difference) so its still technically eligible for state funds. I can also see the legislature seeing the project as pork for the mostly conservative voters in North Meck, and not being a pure Charlotte project.

Despite my lingering hopes for red line success, my rational self acknowledges that the red line project is dead, dead, dead. It will take a series of miracles for it to happen, but it is now slightly more likely to happen than the Silver Line or the DOLRT.

Edited September 19, 2015 by kermit

[southslider]

If Red Line is dead, dead, dead, why is Gateway even still advancing?

[SgtCampsalot]

You don't need the Red Line to justify Gateway, do you? (Amtrak, Gold Line, etc)?

[kermit]

If Red Line is dead, dead, dead, why is Gateway even still advancing?

Are you more optimistic about the red line than I am? (I am sure you know more about it than I do). But, to your question:

1) real estate development

2) the incredible crapiness of the existing station

3) Amtrak boardings could reasonably be around 500,000 with the new service that is currently planned (two more daily Piedmont trains). That will never fit in the existing station. I think ridership could easily hit 600,000 after 2020 with the boost from a downtown station.

4) The future of a SEHSR (but don't call it "High Speed" anymore!) depends on a real Charlotte station

5) The long-term possibility of commuter rail on the NCRR to Salisbury, and (the much less likely) commuter service to CLT, Belmont, Gastonia and Kings Mountain (and maybe Grover). Despite our discussions to the contrary, commuter rail simply won't work well without a station inside 277. Nobody wants a two (or three) seat ride to work.

I do think Gateway will work ok at the currently proposed 12 trains per day without the ADM grade separation, but anything more than that will certainly require fixing the bottleneck. We really can't make any substantial improvements to heavy rail in Charlotte (or North Carolina) without a new station.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2015 by kermit

[Spartan]

Everyone seems to forget that CATS needs a new bus hub. The current one is far over capacity, so if we ever want bus service to improve a new one is essential. Gateway provides the pressure relief for CTC, and all of those things combined with those listed in the post above provide additional ridership for the Gold Line.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Spartan

[southslider]

But should the bus hub even be Uptown?  Most non-express bus riders don't work Uptown.

[archiham04]

^ and should there be a bus hub or a series of hubs?

[15895]

^ and should there be a bus hub or a series of hubs?

Series of hubs will make commuting a lot easier. Especially if they're scattered along the rail lines and you have bus routes connecting the hubs.

 

if the NorthLake Mall bus hub were connected to a BLE hub, people from say Beatties Ford could transfer at NorthLake and be connected to University or farther south on Tryon or circulated on bus routes in the areas. As opposed to going all the way to uptown, all the way back up to University

Edited September 22, 2015 by AirNostrumMAD