Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[DH17]

On 7/23/2018 at 5:47 AM, Hunted said:

Are all those lots in the picture fenced off?

The lot between the streetcar and the road closest to the front of the picture is. The rest are still used for parking.

[Hushpuppy321]

Hoping this station gets off the ground in the next couple of years as planned (phase II and beyond).   I just don't understand how the current CTC will be moved to Gateway Station?  Either way it'll feel disjointed from the Blueline but I guess CLT has to make due.

[southslider]

39 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

 I just don't understand how the current CTC will be moved to Gateway Station? 

It won't be moved. Gateway is planned to have less than half as many bus bays.

[TheOneRJ]

The current CTC station is disgusting. Not to mention the land it sits on could be used in much better ways 

[orulz]

The best solution would be to restructure Charlotte's bus network to be more of a grid with numerous transfer points throughout the central city, and thus less dependent on a massive central transfer center.

[Dale]

52 minutes ago, TheOneRJ said:

The current CTC station is disgusting. Not to mention the land it sits on could be used in much better ways 

^ This! Only a few years old and looking rundown.

[kermit]

6 minutes ago, Dale said:

^ This! Only a few years old and looking rundown.

almost 25 years old...

[Dale]

Just now, kermit said:

almost 25 years old...

My mistake. That said, looks 50. Larger point: primo land for development.

[KJHburg]

^^^ actually Bank of America donated the land for it as they wanted to move the "transit mall" off Tryon Street.  The transit mall had bus stops up and down Tryon Street north and south and most cities were consolidating  a main stop but Charlotte did not have one.   ( I mean NationsBank as it was called then donated the land) 

Edited July 26, 2018 by KJHburg

[NCMike1990]

Not sure if this has been posted but gonna post it anyway.

 

[Cadi40]

It should be a catalyst for areas west of the ball park.

[Norm2]

3 hours ago, NCMike1990 said:

Not sure if this has been posted but gonna post it anyway.

 

If that is truly how the station is supposed to look.....I think it is rather ugly.

[deleted]

1 hour ago, norm21499 said:

If that is truly how the station is supposed to look.....I think it is rather ugly.

Agreed and it's not.  As I understand it, they have no idea how it will look since they will be partnering with developers on the station and surrounding blocks.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  I believe RDF compared it to the airport based on the color scheme.

[Popsickle]

1 hour ago, JBS said:

Agreed and it's not.  As I understand it, they have no idea how it will look since they will be partnering with developers on the station and surrounding blocks.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  I believe RDF compared it to the airport based on the color scheme.

I read an observer article a couple of weekends that interviewed Lewis about the station and to paraphrase he said the contractor will have architectural freedom in designing the station.

[dubone]

The CTC is primarily a bus hub.  Until we make more of a shift to electric buses, or more hybrid buses, the CTC has the problem of sooty diesel fumes.  It is often serving poor bus commuters that tend to not be conscientious about litter and grit.   Putting those together, even if it were a marble basilica 20 years ago, it would be rather ugly from its heavy use.   Building a new bus hub will have the same problem of likely looking very rough in a decade, but there are some good trends with battery electric buses getting China-priced and dramatically becoming more affordable to cities.  If that occurs, then the major problem with diesel buses of loud noises and dirty sooty tailpipe emissions will be reduced over time, allowing just a cleanup of the old to make it seem a lot more inviting and pleasant.     Of course, that might also allow it to not have such a high roof, which is needed for cross-breeze to keep their customers from dying of asphyxiation.    

I like the concept of more gridded design.  CATS has somewhat tried to pursue some of that with regional transfer hubs outside of downtown.   However many of the bus riders are actually seeking to go near uptown, so many of the bus routes continue to head uptown.   Remember most of those shiny high rise office, hotel, and condo towers we talk about on UP have workers supporting them that ride a bus to a relatively low paying job. 

 

Back to topic, Gateway Station will only really have Greyhound interstate buses, as they already had the land to start with, so they will remain part of this.   So as has been explained many times, Gateway Station really has nothing to do with the CTC bus hub.  They have so little planned for Gateway station that they are not even using the full block, choosing to pair up with a developer to develop the rest.  It is mainly a hall for the long waits, customer service and ticketing for the Amtrak and Greyhound long distance travel and some token support for any local transit that will use the Norfolk Southern corridor through downtown.  

[TheOneRJ]

On 7/31/2018 at 10:55 AM, dubone said:

The CTC is primarily a bus hub.  Until we make more of a shift to electric buses, or more hybrid buses, the CTC has the problem of sooty diesel fumes.  It is often serving poor bus commuters that tend to not be conscientious about litter and grit.   Putting those together, even if it were a marble basilica 20 years ago, it would be rather ugly from its heavy use.   Building a new bus hub will have the same problem of likely looking very rough in a decade, but there are some good trends with battery electric buses getting China-priced and dramatically becoming more affordable to cities.  If that occurs, then the major problem with diesel buses of loud noises and dirty sooty tailpipe emissions will be reduced over time, allowing just a cleanup of the old to make it seem a lot more inviting and pleasant.     Of course, that might also allow it to not have such a high roof, which is needed for cross-breeze to keep their customers from dying of asphyxiation.    

I like the concept of more gridded design.  CATS has somewhat tried to pursue some of that with regional transfer hubs outside of downtown.   However many of the bus riders are actually seeking to go near uptown, so many of the bus routes continue to head uptown.   Remember most of those shiny high rise office, hotel, and condo towers we talk about on UP have workers supporting them that ride a bus to a relatively low paying job. 

 

Back to topic, Gateway Station will only really have Greyhound interstate buses, as they already had the land to start with, so they will remain part of this.   So as has been explained many times, Gateway Station really has nothing to do with the CTC bus hub.  They have so little planned for Gateway station that they are not even using the full block, choosing to pair up with a developer to develop the rest.  It is mainly a hall for the long waits, customer service and ticketing for the Amtrak and Greyhound long distance travel and some token support for any local transit that will use the Norfolk Southern corridor through downtown.  

Bus tickets and light rail tickets are the same price. The demographics of people that use one over the other isn’t relevant to the poor upkeep of the facility and use of the land it sits on. Do we really want tourists visiting the Spectrum Center to be greeted with CTC?

Edited August 1, 2018 by TheOneRJ

[uptownliving]

There will be a CATS bus component to Gateway and it will go on the land adjacent to BB&T Ballpark at Graham and 4th. 

Also CATS is almost finished with completely redesigning the Bus System to cut down on transfers at CTC. They are calling it Envision My Ride and you can read more about it here: http://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/envisionmyride/Pages/envision-my-ride.aspx

Edited August 1, 2018 by uptownliving
Spelling

[davidclt]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 12:19 PM, uptownliving said:

There will be a CATS bus component to Gateway and it will go on the land adjacent to BB&T Ballpark at Graham and 4th. 

Also CATS is almost finished with completely redesigning the Bus System to cut down on transfers at CTC. They are calling it Envision My Ride and you can read more about it here: http://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/envisionmyride/Pages/envision-my-ride.aspx

(lost a lengthy post probably because I fat-fingered something) Envision my Ride seems like a fatal half measure at best. Rather than fixing procedural and structural issues, it seems to be merely window dressing with minor tweaks to most of the few routes it touches. I'd rather see consistently increased frequency on the top 10 routes (not counting Lynx) with a maximum headway throughout the day of 10 minutes and a maximum headway on Lynx of 15 minutes (evenings after 8 and weekends) and routinely from 6:45 a.m. to 8 p.m. running on a maximum headway of seven minutes. I know those changes are not without cost. Fix the Ride CATS app, provide more well-maintained shelters and real-time boards at all stops for when the next vehicle will arrive (Lynx still doesn't have a number of problems fixed including schedules on platforms, route maps, platform recordings, not to mention arrival times are nowhere in the neighborhood of accurate). Ensure that when routes intersect, the busses use the transfers as time points and wait for the other vehicles to allow for transfers between the lines.

See this for my dream for CATS (and really an integrated regional transit network): http://www.seattle.gov/transit/year-2-annual-report

[southslider]

^anything is possible with increased funding. But Envision My Ride is cost-neutral. 

[QCxpat]

"How Well Can We Predict Charlotte's Transit Future?"  Charlotte Magazine #discuss CLT podcast, by Greg LaCour, August 15, 2018

Excerpt:

"North Carolina Transportation Secretary James Trogdon is asking the ... question we all are: “How will transportation change?”  "Trogdon poses the question, rhetorically, to Andy Smith in the latest #discussCLT podcast.  Andy recorded him during the groundbreaking last month of the first phase of the Gateway Station, an ambitious, $100 million-plus effort to route as many modes of transportation as possible—Amtrak, light and commuter rail, inter-city and local buses, streetcar—through a central station in uptown Charlotte. The city expects to finish the first phase by summer 2022. The overall project is the cornerstone of the city’s 2030 Transit Vision, a document intended to guide the development of Charlotte’s transit system for decades to come."  "Charlotte isn’t just planning on its own version of Grand Central Station. It’s outlined plans for an expanded east-west Gold Line (commonly referred to as “the streetcar project”) and three light and commuter rail lines to complement the Blue Line that already links Interstate 485 to the south and University City to the north."

Link;  http://www.charlottemagazine.com/DiscussCLT/August-2018/How-Well-Can-We-Predict-Charlottes-Transit-Future/

[KJHburg]

From Ely at the Observer at the city council meeting his tweet

Ely Portillo‏Verified account @ESPortillo 7m7 minutes ago

More

Gateway Station development update: The plan is to release RFQ to find a developer by late Oct., pick a developer by early 2019. Rails could be completed to uptown Charlotte by 2022, but passenger service will wait for a station (Earlier story here) #cltcc

[Dale]

12 hours ago, KJHburg said:

From Ely at the Observer at the city council meeting his tweet

Ely Portillo‏Verified account @ESPortillo 7m7 minutes ago

More

Gateway Station development update: The plan is to release RFQ to find a developer by late Oct., pick a developer by early 2019. Rails could be completed to uptown Charlotte by 2022, but passenger service will wait for a station (Earlier story here) #cltcc

Does this mean the station might not be complete until sometime AFTER 2022 ?

[kermit]

2 hours ago, Dale said:

Does this mean the station might not be complete until sometime AFTER 2022 ?

Yup, same article mentions 2024 as the earliest probable  start date for trains downtown.

gezzus

(the transcontinental railroad was built in less than three years. During a war.)

Edited October 2, 2018 by kermit

[Dale]

53 minutes ago, kermit said:

Yup, same article mentions 2024 as the earliest probable  start date for trains downtown.

gezzus

(the transcontinental railroad was built in less than three years. During a war.)

And they'll probably value-engineer and drive a composite spike.

[southslider]

On 8/1/2018 at 12:19 PM, uptownliving said:

There will be a CATS bus component to Gateway and it will go on the land adjacent to BB&T Ballpark at Graham and 4th. 

Or over a block from CityLYNX Gold Line, which just proves it never really was about transportation