Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, southslider said:

Or over a block from CityLYNX Gold Line, which just proves it never really was about transportation

Not over a block, a block. 450 ft. You can easily walk further than that going from the blue line CTC station to the bus bays on the far side of the CTC. 

[southslider]

2 hours ago, tozmervo said:

Not over a block, a block. 450 ft. You can easily walk further than that going from the blue line CTC station to the bus bays on the far side of the CTC. 

4th St is one block from Trade St.  But since the buses will be south of 4th and streetcar around the corner, it would be well over a block.

Blue Line and Gold Line are about 450 feet apart now at CTC, and it's not an easy transfer to make daily.   Gold Line to Gateway buses will be roughly twice as far.

[Dale]

1 minute ago, southslider said:

4th St is one block from Trade St.  But since the buses will be south of 4th and streetcar around the corner, it would be well over a block.

Blue Line and Gold Line are about 450 feet apart now at CTC, and it's not an easy transfer to make daily.   Gold Line to Gateway buses will be roughly twice as far.

But isn't that good enough for government work ?

 

[15895]

I don’t think it’s so important to have the uptown bus hub connect directly to the gold line. The important thing is that the blue line is connected to the gold line.

 

Isn’t the bus system slowly being shifted from an uptown hub to cross town routes feeding into the blue line? 

 

You can look at many stations now and see how some places like Arrowood station is really heavy on bus transfers there. Seems like there are wayyy more people transferring from bus to rail at Arrowood than people driving in and taking the rail. Same for many other stops. 

[CTiger]

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but I noticed today that construction crews are bulldozing and removing trees in the area behind the Circa Apartments and Graham St Pub.  I sort of assume that this is part of the Gateway project, but does anyone have any insight into what they are doing specifically on this plot?

[kermit]

15 minutes ago, CTiger said:

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but I noticed today that construction crews are bulldozing and removing trees in the area behind the Circa Apartments and Graham St Pub.  I sort of assume that this is part of the Gateway project, but does anyone have any insight into what they are doing specifically on this plot?

Almost certainly just clearing for new trackwork. There may be 3 (possibly 4) additional tracks there IIRC.

[DMann]

Looks like they have also cleared the parking lot on the northwest corner of 4th and Graham.  I would think the tracks would run closer to the NS tracks already in place.

[kermit]

^ I think that is a staging area for bridge and track materials.

[Third Strike]

The Brightline, now known as Virgin Trains USA, is going public, and a Charlotte to Atlanta line is in consideration. 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article221806725.html

[Hushpuppy321]

That'd be pretty cool if something like that could start up in the coming couple years.  I'd ride.

[kermit]

This is quite literally the wrong thread for this but that won’t stop me.

Brightline (now Virgin Rail USA) filed paperwork for their IPO. No real mention of Charlotte to Atlanta in the prospectus (other than them identifying it as one of their for future routes) but... 

they do provide some timeline information for revenue generation. They expect to have Miami to Tampa and Los Angeles (Victorville actually) to Las Vegas running by 2024. This suggests a window of around 2025-2030 for the earliest possible CLT-ATL service.  For any of this to happen they need to make money in Florida and the unrelated  Texas Central HSR service Dallas-Houston service needs to do well — if all this comes together then privately funded CLT-ATL can happen.

The prospectus also mentions a large  land acquisition in Las Vegas  for TOD development around their station (TOD is a big part of revenue expectations in Florida as well).  This indicates that they are sticking with their real estate development model outside of Florida (where they already owned land) so they are likely to build their own CLT and ATL stations rather than go to Gateway.  If they actually build a new ROW route for CLT-ATL (as they plan to do on half of their Florida route) then I suspect they will enter CLT from the South.  If so we may see their agents looking for a big patch of land between 485 station and Uptown along the blue line following the IPO. 

Having said that, their new partnership w Virgin suggest that UK tourism may be a significant revenue stream, so an airport terminus is also possible. But I am struggling to see big euro tourism flows in the CLT-ATL market so I think it is less likely.

Disclaimer — just guessing!

Edit: Brightline / Virgin likes new ROW along interstates in Florida so I could picture a 77 routing from Rock Hill (as part of a rebuild of 77) and a Charlotte Pipe  land station — I wonder if David Tapper is following along? A large Stadium / station / entertainment district / office complex would be interesting.

Edit Edit: if the Gateway station rfp was delayed by a year I could see Brightline submitting a proposal. Given the timing of the IPO I doubt they have sufficient capital to participate now (I have not seen their Miami Central project)

Edited November 21, 2018 by kermit

[Scribe]

On the subject of Charlotte Gateway Station... the Greyhound Interim Terminal has all the permits pulled and the footings already approved (today).   At least we have this moving away from the existing tracks...

Once the interim bus terminal is done, the CGS project can move towards building the new bridges for Amtrak trains!

[cltcitywatch]

https://www.charlottegatewaydistrict.com/   

New project website apparently went live this weekend....

[EllAyyDub]

31 minutes ago, cltcitywatch said:

https://www.charlottegatewaydistrict.com/   

New project website apparently went live this weekend....

Another hint to the Silver line/ center city light rail alignment potentially buried on a map on this site.

[jjwilli]

29 minutes ago, EllAyyDub said:

Another hint to the Silver line/ center city light rail alignment potentially buried on a map on this site.

Hopefully not! I want that line to go down by the Gold District and stop at West Summit. However, I can see all the tracks along that route complicating things too much.

[kermit]

On 11/19/2018 at 8:35 PM, kermit said:

This is quite literally the wrong thread for this but that won’t stop me.

Brightline (now Virgin Rail USA) filed paperwork for their IPO. No real mention of Charlotte to Atlanta in the prospectus (other than them identifying it as one of their for future routes) but... 

they do provide some timeline information for revenue generation. They expect to have Miami to Tampa and Los Angeles (Victorville actually) to Las Vegas running by 2024. This suggests a window of around 2025-2030 for the earliest possible CLT-ATL service.  For any of this to happen they need to make money in Florida and the unrelated  Texas Central HSR service Dallas-Houston service needs to do well — if all this comes together then privately funded CLT-ATL can happen.

The prospectus also mentions a large  land acquisition in Las Vegas  for TOD development around their station (TOD is a big part of revenue expectations in Florida as well).  This indicates that they are sticking with their real estate development model outside of Florida (where they already owned land) so they are likely to build their own CLT and ATL stations rather than go to Gateway.  If they actually build a new ROW route for CLT-ATL (as they plan to do on half of their Florida route) then I suspect they will enter CLT from the South.  If so we may see their agents looking for a big patch of land between 485 station and Uptown along the blue line following the IPO. 

Having said that, their new partnership w Virgin suggest that UK tourism may be a significant revenue stream, so an airport terminus is also possible. But I am struggling to see big euro tourism flows in the CLT-ATL market so I think it is less likely.

Disclaimer — just guessing!

Edit: Brightline / Virgin likes new ROW along interstates in Florida so I could picture a 77 routing from Rock Hill (as part of a rebuild of 77) and a Charlotte Pipe  land station — I wonder if David Tapper is following along? A large Stadium / station / entertainment district / office complex would be interesting.

Edit Edit: if the Gateway station rfp was delayed by a year I could see Brightline submitting a proposal. Given the timing of the IPO I doubt they have sufficient capital to participate now (I have not seen their Miami Central project)

Here is the Atlanta Business Journal on this (not much additional information here): https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2018/12/05/richard-branson-backed-passenger-rail-venture.html   (I was able to access it as a non-subscriber)

[Dale]

Brightline is wasting no time on its recently announced a Orlando to Tampa leg. Expected to break ground this summer and begin service 2021-22.

[southslider]

^Virgin Trains USA

[DeleteMe]

On 11/19/2018 at 8:35 PM, kermit said:

This is quite literally the wrong thread for this but that won’t stop me.

Brightline (now Virgin Rail USA) filed paperwork for their IPO. No real mention of Charlotte to Atlanta in the prospectus (other than them identifying it as one of their for future routes) but... 

they do provide some timeline information for revenue generation. They expect to have Miami to Tampa and Los Angeles (Victorville actually) to Las Vegas running by 2024. This suggests a window of around 2025-2030 for the earliest possible CLT-ATL service.  For any of this to happen they need to make money in Florida and the unrelated  Texas Central HSR service Dallas-Houston service needs to do well — if all this comes together then privately funded CLT-ATL can happen.

The prospectus also mentions a large  land acquisition in Las Vegas  for TOD development around their station (TOD is a big part of revenue expectations in Florida as well).  This indicates that they are sticking with their real estate development model outside of Florida (where they already owned land) so they are likely to build their own CLT and ATL stations rather than go to Gateway.  If they actually build a new ROW route for CLT-ATL (as they plan to do on half of their Florida route) then I suspect they will enter CLT from the South.  If so we may see their agents looking for a big patch of land between 485 station and Uptown along the blue line following the IPO. 

Having said that, their new partnership w Virgin suggest that UK tourism may be a significant revenue stream, so an airport terminus is also possible. But I am struggling to see big euro tourism flows in the CLT-ATL market so I think it is less likely.

Disclaimer — just guessing!

Edit: Brightline / Virgin likes new ROW along interstates in Florida so I could picture a 77 routing from Rock Hill (as part of a rebuild of 77) and a Charlotte Pipe  land station — I wonder if David Tapper is following along? A large Stadium / station / entertainment district / office complex would be interesting.

Edit Edit: if the Gateway station rfp was delayed by a year I could see Brightline submitting a proposal. Given the timing of the IPO I doubt they have sufficient capital to participate now (I have not seen their Miami Central project)

The potential impact on development at Gateway is spot-on.  Back in the day, railroad fortunes were built on development.  Streetcar lines were funded by development.  Development follows transportation.  I think giving private rail development rights at stations is the incentive needed to get rail back up and running by private operators.

I disagree about tourism flows from Europe to CLT.  Between the Smokies, BRP, Asheville, OBX, Charleston....CLT (or RDU) are great gateways.  The key is making people aware.  I wish CLT, RDU, and NC would do more to advertise in Europe.

[Dale]

5 hours ago, southslider said:

^Virgin Trains USA

Yes, the names are still used interchangeably.

[Scribe]

On 12/3/2018 at 5:57 PM, cltcitywatch said:

https://www.charlottegatewaydistrict.com/   

New project website apparently went live this weekend....

Look at this little gem (from the link above) note the Silver Line alignment and how it:

• crosses under I-277 at Caldwell or Davidson and then stays within I-277
• stops on the outside of the Gateway Station
• breaks west out past I-77
• follows Morehead out to US 74 (Wilkinson Blvd)
• follows Wilkinson out toward the Airport (I would guess in the median like N Tryon)

Edited December 6, 2018 by Scribe
remved duplicate map rendering...

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Scribe said:

Look at this little gem (from the link above) note the Silver Line alignment and how it:

• crosses under I-277 at Caldwell or Davidson and then stays within I-277
• stops on the outside of the Gateway Station
• breaks west out past I-77
• follows Morehead out to US 74 (Wilkinson Blvd)
• follows Wilkinson out toward the Airport (I would guess in the median like N Tryon)

Yea I saw that. Its really a shame, Daniel Levine gets himself two train lines on his land. CATS was due to finalize routes/engineering plan of the route very soon, this actually might be able to be treated as dogma. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Guest

[Hushpuppy321]

4 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Yea I saw that. Its really a shame, Daniel Levine gets himself two train lines on his land. 

True but I think it's only because he hasn't built anything yet - So it's available land.  SilverLine had also been proposed a couple years ago running down Stonewall Street but heavy development makes that more unfeasible/constricted.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

True but I think it's only because he hasn't built anything yet - So it's available land.  SilverLine had also been proposed a couple years ago running down Stonewall Street but heavy development makes that more unfeasible/constricted.

nah I think its an access thing, its much more preferable to have a connection to gateway station in my opinion, and I think its probably a lot cheaper to go this route than figure out a way to get to stonewall. By going to gateway station you could conceivably take an Amtrak from a northern town and hop on the Silver line to the Airport, how great would that be!

Edited December 6, 2018 by Guest

[15895]

2 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

nah I think its an access thing, its much more preferable to have a connection to gateway station in my opinion, and I think its probably a lot cheaper to go this route than figure out a way to get to stonewall. By going to gateway station you could conceivably take an Amtrak from a northern town and hop on the Silver line to the Airport, how great would that be!

Not anywhere near as driving  

Edited December 6, 2018 by AirNostrumMAD