Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[Urbanity]

Isn't all of this what the Streetcar (full implementation from Rosa Parks to Eastland is supposed to accomplish (linking the two main stations by well traveled line)?

Edited October 15, 2012 by Urbanity

[dubone]

Yes, but CATS has disavowed itself of the streetcar in transit plans. So while, yes, that has been the plan all along, it is not really in CATS's plans.

In other news, I saw that the Charlotte to Raleigh train has had double digit ridership growth in the past year. That is in advance of increased frequency and double track projects that will reduce travel time. It is a very good sign for regional railway travel in this state.

[orulz]

In other news, I saw that the Charlotte to Raleigh train has had double digit ridership growth in the past year. That is in advance of increased frequency and double track projects that will reduce travel time. It is a very good sign for regional railway travel in this state.

Going back to 2009 when the Piedmont ran only once a day, ridership was just over 60,000. In 2012, the second year of the midday train, it was 162,000. True to what we've always been told, doubling the frequency more than doubled the ridership. I expect to see ridership in excess of 250,000 once the third Piedmont begins in a couple years.

Also remember this is only a portion of the Raleigh-Charlotte ridership. The Carolinian covers the Charlotte-Raleigh AM trip and the Raleigh-Charlotte PM trip.

[kdub1]

^^^It would also work to interline higher-ridership routes with comparable frequencies. For example, combine the #7-Beatties Ford and the #9-Central as one frequent bus route with through-routing and stops at both CTC and Gateway.

Maybe CATS should try this for interlining: Have a route begin at the CTC and end at Gateway and vice versa. For example, the eastern-based #9 begins at the CTC, does its route, then when it gets back to Uptown, it ends at Gateway Station and becomes the northern-based #7.

Edited October 18, 2012 by kdub1

[southslider]

^But if both the #7 and #9 already run at comparable headways, why not just combine the two routes into one? That single route would eliminate transfers at CTC for those now transferring between the City's busiest routes. Taking the two busiest buses (after #11 pre-BLE) out of the CTC will also free up space for other routes in that maxed-out facility.

Prior to the LYNX, the #12-South Blvd. was a super-busy route. Right now, prior to the BLE, the #11-North Tryon is a super-busy route. But after BLE, these two former bus routes will effectively be interlined by the overall Blue Line. In other words, if it's good enough for trains to run through Uptown north-south, then it should be good to interline buses east-west.

It also would free up capacity on crammed Gold Rush-Red Line trolleys. Many Gold Rush riders are not Uptown white-collar works, but bus riders connecting between CTC and the multiple colleges, government center, and hospital. The interlined service could even replace the fake trolleys, yet still be attractive to Uptown workers, if Sprinter vehicles and/or an Uptown "ride free" zone were part of the interlined route's implementation.

[dubone]

I fully agree with an uptown ride free zone. The utility of the Gold Rush is amazing, but they are irritatingly slow and choppy rides. Buses overall are unpleasant rides compared to trains, but larger conventional buses are far more pleasant than those trolley buses.

I suspect that an uptown fare free zone would spread the ridership boost that the Gold Rush offers but be far more convenient. I am not fully sure how that would work, though, with the sponsorship model, as it is far easier to get corporate funds for the cutesy tourist traps. Plus, it is harder to check tickets in that model, which is the main reason it probably won't happen.

[southslider]

^Hence, why any bus service on Trade should ideally use Sprinter vehicles or other quality-bus enhancements to offset the retirement of those bumpy ride fake trolleys.

[kermit]

CBJ reports that developer presentations of Gateway plans are today. The announcement on which developer team was selected for Gateway will be next Thursday.

[15895]

Great... Now my weeks going to go by slow, ha.

I didn't read the article, I assume it's for subscribers, but I think Bank of America, Crescent, and Little and the New York firm is going to have a stellar plan.

So excited to see these proposals now that we know they requested the right to build along the tracks.

Is the time frame for the station dependent on the red line?

[kermit]

^ it was a very brief blurb in the table talk section (which I don't believe is online). No mention of the red line, but I believe that Gateway station will proceed with or without news on the red line.

[ajfunder]

^{The red line is not dependent on Gateway Station and Gateway Station is not dependent on the red line. Although the Red Line would increase Gateway Station's use big time. The 3rd Piedmont train will be nice to. Looking forward to seeing this project move forward.}

[dubone]

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/print-edition/2012/10/26/final-decision-coming-on-gateway-project.html

Here is the article online. It doesn't have much in the way of news, just that the proposals are due next week.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

^{The red line is not dependent on Gateway Station and Gateway Station is not dependent on the red line. Although the Red Line would increase Gateway Station's use big time. The 3rd Piedmont train will be nice to. Looking forward to seeing this project move forward.}

The Red Line is dependent on Gateway Station. The O-Line does not go to the current Amtrak Station, and even if it did, the station does not have the capacity to accommodate commuter rail service.

[ajfunder]

The Red Line is dependent on Gateway Station. The O-Line does not go to the current Amtrak Station, and even if it did, the station does not have the capacity to accommodate commuter rail service.

No, CATS has stated (can't remember where) and I have also talked to some CATS and NCDOT officials that have said the Red Line does not require Gateway Station. If the red line was built before Gateway, they would not even consider using the current Amtrak station but they would build the commuter tracks and a platform at the Gateway Station site. The Commuter platforms will be on the west side of the NS tracks and the NCDOT/Amtrak platforms will be on the east side (Uptown side). If commuter rail was built first, there would be a platform and street access to Trade Street with a couple of bus connections, but the new bus terminal, station hall, greyhound station, and the rest of the development would remain unbuilt. At this rate though, Gateway Station will most likely be constructed first so this plan I mentioned above will most likely not be needed.

[15895]

PDF from Google

http://www.bytrain.o...otteGateway.pdf

I don't know if you guys seen or remember this PDF, but it gives a good Visual of the area that, I believe, is being up for bid.

And now that Romare Bearden and BB&T Stadium is underway, it's easier to visualize how all of this will pan out.The Knights Hotel building will be directly beside Gateway. These three projects will be a huge game changer for downtown as far as becoming more of a 3D Core instead of being so linear.

One of major criteria for the bidders is state of the art TOD.

Edited October 28, 2012 by AirNostrumMAD

[15895]

CBJ reports that developer presentations of Gateway plans are today. The announcement on which developer team was selected for Gateway will be next Thursday.

Today is Thursday. Will the announcement be made Public?

[15895]

Hines lands Gateway transit project

Call it the end of the beginning. Today the state transportation department selected Houston-based Hines as master developer for the proposed $200 million Gateway Station, an uptown development envisioned as a combination transit hub and collection of offices, shops and restaurants.

http://www.bizjourna...ect.html?page=2

Not much detail otherwise yet though.

Edited November 1, 2012 by AirNostrumMAD

[nonillogical]

Well fwiw Hines' portfolio looks great, lots of high-profile projects and if not always architecturally stunning, at least always very urban and thoughtful.

[Prodev]

Can't wait to see a master plan. This has a TON of potential.

[dubone]

This will have a major impact on Fourth Ward, not just Third Ward. CBJ keeps implying that the 20 acres is bounded by 4th, Trade, and Graham, but it is actually all of the NCDOT blocks along Graham, Wilkes, and Smith from 3rd to 9th streets. It is 4 half-blocks along Smith and 3 full blocks along Graham. I can't wait to see the plans.

[Guest]

Am I the only one that doesn't understand why basically 5 blocks of developable land is only a $200 million dollar project? It just doesn't seem all that grand to me. I'm worried about being very disappointed about something that is supposed to be our "Grand Central."

[Prodev]

I agree and my take was that it was just "gateway station" that was the $200 mil project and not the overall 20 acre master plan that would very likely be well over $1 billion all told

[Guest]

That's also what I originally took away from it. Not so sure anymore. Hopefully I get proved incorrect.

[dubone]

This all seems very much like a project that will be very much like Levinetown, where the only projects that move forward being whatever the state pays for, and the rest always paralyzed by some failure of market conditions or some other excuse.

Obviously having a single winner at the table that has the means to make something happen is very good, but I worry that they wouldn't be as committed over the course of a decade as the more locally-based finalist that was not chosen. Building Gateway Village in the first place, was because BofA itself created the demand for office space in an unproven area. Certainly I could see office space working at the two blocks fronting Trade St, and possibly the half block behind Cotton Mills, yet speculative office space has not been all that popular lately (e.g. Nascar Plaza).

Obviously market conditions are not right for that whole $billion+ investment to work any time soon.

[15895]

This all seems very much like a project that will be very much like Levinetown, where the only projects that move forward being whatever the state pays for, and the rest always paralyzed by some failure of market conditions or some other excuse.

Obviously having a single winner at the table that has the means to make something happen is very good, but I worry that they wouldn't be as committed over the course of a decade as the more locally-based finalist that was not chosen. Building Gateway Village in the first place, was because BofA itself created the demand for office space in an unproven area. Certainly I could see office space working at the two blocks fronting Trade St, and possibly the half block behind Cotton Mills, yet speculative office space has not been all that popular lately (e.g. Nascar Plaza).

Obviously market conditions are not right for that whole $billion+ investment to work any time soon.

Yeah, I really thought Esse Quam Videri was going to win. I also like their name "To Be Rather Than to Seem".... I think that was Levine inspired.

However, I have faith the outcome of this project will be much different than Levine. You have a major anchor project with $200 million injected into the project for an anchor "attraction" on top of the parcels are smaller and I can imagine lowrise Southend-esque development with substantial retail. Also, Charlotte has strings attached and can butt our noses right in this. Our community leaders work for well together so I'm sure everyone will do their parts to make this happen. I can't fathom that some of these parcels would stay empty being blocks from Gateway, Panthers, Romare Bearden, and the BB&T Stadium.

I could see Student Dorms, Apartments, and a substantial office tower in the "near term" relative to how long construction, planning, etc. takes with lots of retail at the bottom.

The next step in the project will involve officials from NCDOT, the city of Charlotte, Mecklenburg County and other local stakeholders entering into a pre-development agreement with Hines to begin initial stages of creating a master development plan. An "extensive process" of stakeholder and community input will be part of that process, NCDOT officials said.

"The creation of the master development plan is expected to generate numerous opportunities for planners, engineers, architects, contractors and other developers to become part of the project as it moves through planning, design and implementation," they said.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/news/North-Carolina-DOT-choses-Hines-Group-as-Gateway-Station-master-developer--33190