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Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements


dubone

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Good point, Southslider. 

 

I see that the Georgia DOT HSR report has stations in Fountain Inn, SC and at GSP.  Fountain Inn is pretty far out of the way; it's a small town in a growing suburban area, with a small population. 

 

Even in the US, Amtrak's Acela doesn't stop in such small places.  There isn't a point to building HSR track if a train can't travel at HSR speeds on it due to all of the stops.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The proposed alignments are obviously very conceptual. Part of the process in selecting a preferred alternative is showing that you considered all options and potential station locations. I think locations like Fountain Inn would get eliminated fairly quick.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm not really sure where to post this but I didn't see a general 4th ward discussion topic.

 

But I would LOVE to see something like this happen to ADM.

Not particularly this design but I think anything would be better than what it currently looks like. 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1038349520/silo-art-project

 

Another Example:

http://www.matthewiphotoblog.com/2012/07/31/a-new-canvas-for-urban-art/

Edited by Lights
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I think ADM loves their current location, which provides direct access to the mainlines of both Norfolk Southern and CSX. This probably allows them to have significantly lower shipping rates due to competition. I also have to imagine that close access to interstate highways doesn't hurt either. For these reasons, buying them out would be extremely expensive -- certainly too expensive for any private redevelopment to pencil out.

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I think ADM loves their current location, which provides direct access to the mainlines of both Norfolk Southern and CSX. This probably allows them to have significantly lower shipping rates due to competition. I also have to imagine that close access to interstate highways doesn't hurt either. For these reasons, buying them out would be extremely expensive -- certainly too expensive for any private redevelopment to pencil out.

 

If anything, ADM is looking for ways to bring in MORE carloads to their current location.  They can only fit 12 cars in the plant for unloading at a time right now, but they want to bring in whole trains of wheat at a time instead of having the cars come in piecemeal on Q469 every day... the problem is we (CSX) don't have anywhere really to store it.  Even if Tryon Yard was in service that's still not really big enough.

Edited by TotalLamer
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I think downtown, uptown, etc. with a touch of industry is a good thing. The coolest spots in Portland are under the Burnside bridge where all the auto parts distributors and cement suppliers are. The skatepark under the bridge is a result of discarded cement bags from a nearby distributor. One of the first microbreweries in Portland is about two blocks from said bridge. Reeks of industry, but every Portlander I've met loves that area....even if they have to wait for the trains and avoid the hobos. 

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I think downtown, uptown, etc. with a touch of industry is a good thing. The coolest spots in Portland are under the Burnside bridge where all the auto parts distributors and cement suppliers are. The skatepark under the bridge is a result of discarded cement bags from a nearby distributor. One of the first microbreweries in Portland is about two blocks from said bridge. Reeks of industry, but every Portlander I've met loves that area....even if they have to wait for the trains and avoid the hobos. 

 

Totally agree.  There's a place with a really cool pre-war feel right beside Tryon Yard... it's called Southern Cast Foundry.

 

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ADM is the only industry left in uptown that we still service.  Aside from them, I think NS services Charlotte Pipe & Foundry and... that's about it.  Jones Chemical used to be Uptown before the Panthers stadium went up.  They're out at Chemway now.

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At least ADM doesn't have hazardous chemicals, ASFAIK.  ;-)

 

Haha yeah... just wheat.  Jones Chemical receives some of the nastiest stuff we deliver.  Chlorine is the worst of it, though they get cars of some other nasty things on the other side.  Clariant out in Mount Holly gets some really dangerous cars too.

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Our company was located in the Cedar Hill building just up Hill St. from where Jones was. Every now and then we'd have to stop business and evacuate the area due to possible Chlorine leaks. When they left we tried to buy the land, but it "wasn't for sale". However, soon after an ex county commissioner bought it for a song and dance. In his words, "it just made sense that I would get it".  We eventually had to move out to I-85 for lack of space. We had an old rail siding next to our building. Would've made a perfect set up for a miniature rail end with shops, etc. (coming from the west)

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Our company was located in the Cedar Hill building just up Hill St. from where Jones was. Every now and then we'd have to stop business and evacuate the area due to possible Chlorine leaks. When they left we tried to buy the land, but it "wasn't for sale". However, soon after an ex county commissioner bought it for a song and dance. In his words, "it just made sense that I would get it".  We eventually had to move out to I-85 for lack of space. We had an old rail siding next to our building. Would've made a perfect set up for a miniature rail end with shops, etc. (coming from the west)

 

It's all just so sad... what there is now vs. what used to be... I mean as far as rail-serviced industry.  Not just talking about Uptown either.  Even at Chemway, there's only three industries that still have rail service... and none of them on an every-day basis.

Edited by TotalLamer
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It's all just so sad... what there is now vs. what used to be... I mean as far as rail-serviced industry.  Not just talking about Uptown either.  Even at Chemway, there's only three industries that still have rail service... and none of them on an every-day basis.

Railroads have about 40% of the freight market in the US, which is an increase over the past few decades.  They're a growth industry.  Warren Buffet wouldn't have bought BNSF if railroads were going under.

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I think he was referring to businesses that have sidings. Sure, freight gets shipped from LA to Chicago, Atlanta, etc. but then it's trucked out to the individual businesses.

 

Spurs... but yes.  A lot of it is that for a LONG time, at least as far as CSX goes, around here they didn't WANT those customers.  You hear story after story of customers being driven off or customers that wanted service and couldn't get it simply because the railroad didn't care about anything but unit trains.  Just as an example, when National Gypsum built their huuuuge plant up in Terrell, originally they were supposed to have the actual gypsum trained in from Marshall Steam Station.  But management decided it was profitable, but not profitable ENOUGH.  So they didn't do it and now we only service them with center-beam flatcars to haul the finished product.

 

Things are a bit different now that the coal business had dried up so immensely, though.  It's also a lot harder to get away with just not working customers you already have now that work orders are tracked electronically and whatnot.  It used to be crews (or dispatchers) would just... not work a customer that day and it was totally normal.  It was very much a "We'll get to you when we feel like it" culture.

Edited by TotalLamer
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Some other interesting news on the Tank Town front, forgot to mention earlier.  The Transflo facility at Toddville will be adding either 2 or 4 new tracks, I've heard conflicting stories.  But either way, the general idea is to be able to bring in 5 to 6 ethanol trains a month instead of the 2 to 3 that come in currently and a new pipeline will be built to transfer it directly to the facilities there in Tank Town.

Edited by TotalLamer
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  • 1 month later...

^ I think the CSX / NS grade separation issues need to be settled before we can expect any movement on Gateway.

 

I also fear that Gateway is not high on the 'new' NCDOT's priority list. 

 

I hope this is not delayed, the website says constructions starts in the fall of 2013. http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/charlottemainline/

Everyone contact the Development Engineer 'Ryan L. White' and bug him for updates!

If Gateway isn't built within the next few years then I'm afraid I will have to give up my goal of buying one of the few remaining19th century homes in Salisbury and taking rail to Charlotte and back during the week for work.. . sigh.. never thought I would miss NJ Transit and the PATH.

 

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I have a contact a city hall that says the grade separation project is dead. It has to do with ADM demanding way more than projected for compensation during construction. The person also said NS and CSX still had concerns how construction would impact their service. The state will go back to the Feds and see if the money can be spent elsewhere in the state and even mentioned that the money could go to Raleigh Union Station, Gateway Station, and the Charlotte maintenance facility. I got the sense that the state (NCDOT) did something to screw up the negotiations. An announcement with more details is expected in the near future..

I thought the project was required for CGS, but apparently there may be some flexibility.

Edited by ajfunder
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I would hope since it was money earmarked for downtown Charlotte that the money would go to Gateway Station.   It is absurd that a project designed to help all three private businesses can't go through because those businesses can't recognize that the future exists.   

 

The city ought to allow street parking on 10th and hurt ADM's truck access, which has a very negative impact on 4th Ward.  If they won't allow for a significant project to remedy the situation, then the remedies should be put in anyway.   

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^ The problem with repurposing the cash for Gateway is that (based on the original ARRA grant application) CSX was unwilling to allow any more than two passenger trains (e.g. the Crescent) across their tracks. The entire justification for the CRISP project was to get around this restriction.

 

In short, the original funding request clearly stated that the grade separation was a necessity for Gateway station to occur.

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Correct me if I'm wrong;

- Gateway Station is still on schedule

- Gateway Station details will be announced in near future

- There are no major obstacles stopping Gateway from being built

O lines, CSX, grade crossings, etc. mean nothing to me, so I'm Trying my best to keep up and follow! Just making sure I'm sorta understanding the bigger, watered down picture

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Correct me if I'm wrong;

- Gateway Station is still on schedule

- Gateway Station details will be announced in near future

- There are no major obstacles stopping Gateway from being built

O lines, CSX, grade crossings, etc. mean nothing to me, so I'm Trying my best to keep up and follow! Just making sure I'm sorta understanding the bigger, watered down picture

Thanks, I know I need a layman's summary of this thread every so often but was afraid to say so! 

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