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Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements


dubone

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The key to Norfolk's success is not necessarily a tribute to VDRPT as much as it is a tribute to Virginia's legislature and governor to work across party lines to see that a successful transportation network is one that is multi-modal.  Virginia recognizes the value of investment in rail and highway transportation.  NC has not gotten there yet?  VA has set aside a consistent and reliable funding source for their state-supported passenger trains.  NC is still playing catch up.  At the end of the day, the success of passenger rail in NC is dependent on a forward thinking legislature.

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NC was somewhat ahead of the game, except for money.   It is a shame to see the politics pull us back from our lead.   There is a reason we got more HSR funds than most states.  We had done quite a bit of work pushing the SEHSR forward despite lack of momentum.  

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The key to Norfolk's success is not necessarily a tribute to VDRPT as much as it is a tribute to Virginia's legislature and governor to work across party lines...

Virginia's swift advances in passenger rail in the past few years were done by a GOP governor working with a GOP-majority legislature.

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Virginia's swift advances in passenger rail in the past few years were done by a GOP governor working with a GOP-majority legislature.

 

There is a distinctive difference between the Virginia & NC Legislature..  The Virginia legislature is far less gerrymandered than NC and thus much more open to compromise.  

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It is true that any time you have a political switch like that, it gets a lot done.   Meanwhile, Patty McCheese is going the other way, PUSHING for offshore oil drilling despite the fact that we would risk far more in tourism than we would gain from drilling.  

 

Hopefully the corporate interests in railroad infrastructure can keep it going in NC so we can get to the next level beyond what has already been funded by stimulus.

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Improving the Raleight to Charlotte Corridor will always be a challenge because of the North Carolina RR.  Though the State of NC owns all of the stock, it is still a private company over which the State exercises limited control.  NCDOT has truly been ahead of the game.  However, imagine what would be possible if our politicians (Democrat and Republicans) recognized the value of Rail Transportation.  A legislature that supports and exercises the authority that it has over the NCRR works with our Class 1 RR partners makes for an effective passenger rail system.  They (policy makers) are under the impression that passenger rail is suppose to compete with highways.  It can't and never will.  They need to understand that it is not about competition, but supplemental capacity along corridors.  The existing and future projects along the NCRR Raleigh to Charlotte Corridor are not designed to take cars off of I-85/40.  It is designed to provide additional capacity for freight and passengers along the primary economic corridor in NC.  This is for intra and inter-state trips.  The Northeast Corridor is no different.  The NEC between DC and NYC will never carry more vehicle trips than I-95 and the NJ Turnpike.  However, it provides additonal passenger and freight capacity along what is likely the busiest economic corridor in North America.  They (the Policymakers) also need to recognize that highways and airports are subsidized as well.

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There is a distinctive difference between the Virginia & NC Legislature..  The Virginia legislature is far less gerrymandered than NC and thus much more open to compromise.  

The difference between VA and NC is that VA has opened multiple Amtrak routes in just the past few years with a GOP legislature and GOP governor, while Democrats in control of NC for many, many years did less in the space of a longer time. 

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^ while I agree that NC could have moved more quickly on passenger rail over the past 20 years we should be realistic about apples and oranges comparisons.Virgina's relative location means its feasible to extend existing equipment from the NEC into Lynchburg, Richmond, Norfolk and Newport News. This geography means higher ridership, higher frequency and lower costs than North Carolina can ever dream of.

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Pinoca is TINY.  Yardmasters are always having to shove cars here or there to get them out of the way.  Tryon yard would be REALLY helpful to get wheat cars for ADM out of the way.  Shove about ~30 or so in there. 

 

ADM can get 12 cars a night, assuming they order them in... but they don't always and their cars don't come in evenly either.  Some days the train from Hamlet won't bring any, then the next day he'll bring 40.

Edited by TotalLamer
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^^^ why would they reopen Tryon? Is Pinoca too small to handle the traffic? And wasn't Pinoca to be expanded as part of CRISP?

The intermodal yard at Pinoca was expanded.  The yard orginally had stub-end tracks.  Now the loading/unloading tracks connect back to the main track on the west end of the yard.  THere was some discussion about NCDOT paying for the expansion of Pinoca Yard to replace the storage lost at Tryon Yard due to the Mainline Grade Separation. 

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Does anyone know who owns this piece of property with an abandoned rail spur next to the Panthers practice field / J&W  and kitty corner from Gateway Station?  Is it NCRR or NCDOT?

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=panthers+practice+field&hl=en&ll=35.229862,-80.851071&spn=0.000905,0.001321&sll=35.231726,-80.850516&sspn=0.010236,0.021136&hq=panthers+practice+field&t=h&z=20

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The plans for Gateway Station involve property on both sides of the tracks, correct?  

 

Since Heavy and Light Rail can't share the same tracks, I'm assuming this property on the west side of the tracks would be a terminus for Light Rail (airport line) and the east side where Greyhound now is would be for Heavy Rail (Amtrak)?

 

Please correct if wrong... 

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^The property you mention above would be used for the Red Line platforms. The NS mainline will pass in between, and the Amtrak platforms will be on the Greyhound side. The most recent plans call for three Amtrak/NCDOT specific tracks, two mainline tracks, and two Red line tracks.

The Airport line as of now is planned to be a streetcar and it would share the East-West streetcar station on Trade Street. Airport streetcar service would terminate at CTC, not at Gareway. This project stands to change a lot but as of now that is the plan.

Alex

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^The property you mention above would be used for the Red Line platforms. The NS mainline will pass in between, and the Amtrak platforms will be on the Greyhound side. The most recent plans call for three Amtrak/NCDOT specific tracks, two mainline tracks, and two Red line tracks.

The Airport line as of now is planned to be a streetcar and it would share the East-West streetcar station on Trade Street. Airport streetcar service would terminate at CTC, not at Gareway. This project stands to change a lot but as of now that is the plan.

Alex

I know relying on Wikipedia can be stupid, but it says the West Corridor will enter uptown from Summit > Cedar > BofA Stadium > Gateway Station > Tryon > CTC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Corridor_(LYNX)

 

If the current NCRR/NS tracks alongside BofA stadium will all be dedicated for Heavy Rail, then the Stadium station would have to be in the parking lot to the south of the stadium.  Would the line then get to Gateway along the current abandoned tracks that run beside the Duke Energy substation / Baston Cook building?  

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Bank+of+America+Stadium,+South+Mint+Street,+Charlotte,+NC&hl=en&ll=35.227851,-80.852034&spn=0.00181,0.002642&sll=35.203154,-80.839829&sspn=0.655326,1.352692&oq=bank+of+a&hq=Bank+of+America+Stadium,+South+Mint+Street,+Charlotte,+NC&t=h&z=19

 

I know it's a pipe dream for now but oh well, after the BLE and Gold Streetcar are completed, an airport line is about the only passenger rail project that could possibly make economic sense...

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Does anyone know who owns this piece of property with an abandoned rail spur next to the Panthers practice field / J&W  and kitty corner from Gateway Station?  Is it NCRR or NCDOT?

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=panthers+practice+field&hl=en&ll=35.229862,-80.851071&spn=0.000905,0.001321&sll=35.231726,-80.850516&sspn=0.010236,0.021136&hq=panthers+practice+field&t=h&z=20

 

pretty sure this was built for the Charlotte Observer to ship paper in when they opened the current uptown facility (early 70s) but has been used for that purpose just once. Believe there was rail under where the CO plant is  pre them pulling the thru rail after the (1950s?) fire. If the CO abanadons uptown (they just bought the WSJ facility near University City) then what is left of that track will be pulled up

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pretty sure this was built for the Charlotte Observer to ship paper in when they opened the current uptown facility (early 70s) but has been used for that purpose just once. Believe there was rail under where the CO plant is  pre them pulling the thru rail after the (1950s?) fire. If the CO abanadons uptown (they just bought the WSJ facility near University City) then what is left of that track will be pulled up

I also think this is programmed for removal if they do the ARRA mainline improvemements south of uptown down to the new NCDOT rail maintenance facility

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pretty sure this was built for the Charlotte Observer to ship paper in when they opened the current uptown facility (early 70s) but has been used for that purpose just once. Believe there was rail under where the CO plant is  pre them pulling the thru rail after the (1950s?) fire. If the CO abanadons uptown (they just bought the WSJ facility near University City) then what is left of that track will be pulled up

Thanks for the update.  Are you referring to this spur line that reaches the Charlotte Observer between Mint and Church?

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=The+Charlotte+Observer,+South+Tryon+Street,+Charlotte,+NC&hl=en&ll=35.223838,-80.851497&spn=0.000905,0.001321&sll=35.240335,-80.867497&sspn=0.005117,0.010568&oq=charlotte+ob&hq=The+Charlotte+Observer,&hnear=S+Tryon+St,+Charlotte,+North+Carolina&t=h&z=20

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That spur was built so they could ship the printers to the location. For some reason the rail crossing on Graham was upgraded and the ROW has been maintained over the years.

 

REALLY?!  They built an entire spur just for shipping the printers to the building?  With a second track to switch towards and everything?  I always assumed it was for shipping paper.

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