Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[RVA2CLT]

It's a shame that re-storing, retro-fitting and expanding on the old Seaboard Air Line Railroad Passenger Station is not currently a viable alternative. The Blue Line extension passes so close that you could create a station/platform right at Alpha Mill with and extended pedestrian walkway to N College to allow easy transfer between Amtrak and LRT line.

I supposed it could be feasible to build something with promise and even act as an anchor catalyst to the N-Tryon if it were possible to purchased all the land surrounding the existing station north of 12th St to the existing ROW, and west from the Blue Line Extension to Graham St.

 

Edited March 6, 2015 by RVA2CLT

[ajfunder]

I have always wondered why the existing Seaboard station wasn't seriously considered. Part of the deal could include a replacement, modernized facility for the current homeless shelter/soup kitchen service currently there. It is a unique and beautiful building to restore for passenger trains, and would likely be a lot cheaper and provide a direct connection to the Blue Line

[southslider]

^and the homeless could be beside Greyhound, if swapping locations.

[seth0423]

Why can't we build, not necessarily on the scale of it, but something like the new Union Station project in Washington DC? That project is set to completely revive a neighborhood, and North Tryon desperately needs that. I board trains to Raleigh (when i go) in Kannapolis and that is a nicer station than Charlotte.

[ajfunder]

In regards to the derailment of the Carolinian today, despite a truck stuck on the tracks, in classic fashion local TV news managed to blame the Amtrak train and question passenger rail safety.

Question: do you think the Seaboard Station could be a viable alternative to Gateway Station despite being separated from Uptown by I-277? Are there ways to make the site appealing to developers and add pedestrian access to Uptown? Or is the idea of using the Seaboard Station a non starter. I assume dealing with CSX would be a large obstacle.

Edited March 9, 2015 by ajfunder

[kermit]

Given the path in and out of Seaboard station from the NCRR and NS there appears to be no way to create a platform which:

1) does not foul and cross CSX

or

2) does not require passengers to walk across active CSX tracks (this will never happen)

 

In essence using Seaboard station would create a second grade crossing of NS and CSX -- remember not long ago the Federal Government was willing to pay more than $200 million to eliminate the problems created by the existing grade crossing. CSX would never consent to a second set of crossings.

[ChessieCat]

The old Seabord station is indeed beautiful and the best way to get a glimpse of it is to railfan at this obscure spot where N Church crosses both the NS and CSX tracks (35.235238,-80.834061):

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=28202&hl=en&ll=35.235286,-80.833996&spn=0.002779,0.004128&sll=35.203153,-80.839829&sspn=0.503276,1.056747&hnear=Charlotte,+North+Carolina+28202&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=35.235238,-80.834061&panoid=Q0cdSPbd1XH_r0H-17H7xg&cbp=12,165.34,,0,9.12

 

The station only makes sense if commuter service to Matthews commences along a double-tracked CSX mainline.  Otherwise. its location on the south side of the tracks along the East-West trunkline creates a problem for Piedmont/Carolinian/Red Line trains which would only be able to unload their pax on the north side of the tracks.  A pedestrian bridge would solve the problem of getting to the south side but it's safe to assume most passengers would care most about connecting to the BLE, so the southeast corner of Charlotte Yard is still the best option for a station in that vicinity.

Edited March 10, 2015 by ChessieCat

[Guest]

The old Seabord station is indeed beautiful and the best way to get a glimpse of it is to railfan at this obscure spot where N Church crosses both the NS and CSX tracks:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=28202&hl=en&ll=35.235286,-80.833996&spn=0.002779,0.004128&sll=35.203153,-80.839829&sspn=0.503276,1.056747&hnear=Charlotte,+North+Carolina+28202&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=35.235238,-80.834061&panoid=Q0cdSPbd1XH_r0H-17H7xg&cbp=12,165.34,,0,9.12

 

The station only makes sense if commuter service to Matthews commences along a double-tracked CSX mainline.  Otherwise. its location on the south side of the tracks along the East-West trunkline creates a problem for Piedmont/Carolinian/Red Line trains which would only be able to unload their pax on the north side of the tracks.  A pedestrian bridge would solve the problem of getting to the south side but it's safe to assume most passengers would care most about connecting to the BLE, so the southeast corner of Charlotte Yard is still the best option for a station in that vicinity.

File this under things I didn't know existed. Beautiful.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?q=1100+N.+Church+St.+Charlotte%2c+NC&mkt=en&FORM=HDRSC4

[ChessieCat]

File this under things I didn't know existed. Beautiful.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?q=1100+N.+Church+St.+Charlotte%2c+NC&mkt=en&FORM=HDRSC4

 

The station is beautiful. The railfanning location itself is about as industrial as it gets... 

[Guest]

The station is beautiful. The railfanning location itself is about as industrial as it gets... 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.233446,-80.832954,3a,75y,9.92h,72.21t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s46WVmaxWANVhjdAe6uNcGg!2e0

I think i Have seen it before, and just thought it was part of urban ministries, what a waste of a great building. 

[SentioVenia]

Excellent find!  I never knew about this.  Here's another Google Maps view through the trees: 

 

https://goo.gl/maps/jlFSz

[orulz]

I don't know, you guys are all down on the Gateway Station plan but truth is, Seaboard is probably an inferior location compared with Gateway. It is a somewhat dilapidated industrial area outside the 277 loop. Other than the possible connection to the blue line, the Seaboard station is only marginally better than the existing station from a location standpoint. Plus, could a platform even be added there on the blue line anyway? Platforms basically have to go at a spot where the rail line is not sloped. At the very least it would require a chunk of the line to be rebuilt.

 

If the only concern is connectivity with the blue line, there might be an alternate way to achieve this. NCDOT is considering where to put a train station in the vicinity of Harrisburg. A block at the corner of Mallard Creek Church Rd and University City Blvd is on the short list. That would be about a 3/4 mile extension of the Blue Line.

 

The existing Charlotte Amtrak station feels very dated right now, sure, but it's also sort of cool in a retro way.

[archiham04]

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.233446,-80.832954,3a,75y,9.92h,72.21t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s46WVmaxWANVhjdAe6uNcGg!2e0

I think i Have seen it before, and just thought it was part of urban ministries, what a waste of a great building. 

hold hold hold hold hold on...  "waste of a building" is rather harsh for an organization that does A LOT of good.  urban ministries does use the building.

Edited March 17, 2015 by archiham04

[Guest]

hold hold hold hold hold on...  "waste of a building" is rather harsh for an organization that does A LOT of good.  urban ministries does use the building.

I wasn't calling it a waste of a building in regards to Urban Ministries... 

[archiham04]

I would encourage all listening (er reading...) to got to urban ministries and see this facility if you haven't.  It is so difficult to explain in words... impressive, depressing, and inspiring all at once.  If you don't know about what they do, you should take a few minutes to learn.  They are fighting a good fight.  I think I first visited to deliver toiletries for Room in the Inn or something... 

[RiverwoodCLT]

I been down to Urban Ministries to pick up homeless and have worked in the soup kitchen. Urban Ministries has their hands full. 

There is not much room around the Seaboard station any more, Urban Ministries would have to move to make room for any other used of the old station.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Plans move forward to build new transportation hub in uptown

 

On Wednesday night, the Metropolitan Transit Commission (MTC) approved the revised municipal agreement, originally signed in 2009, between the City of Charlotte and NCDOT.

 

Votaw says the facility could be ready around the time phase two of street car opens in 2018-2019.

 

[[http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/local/2015/03/26/plans-move-forward-to-build-new-transportation-hub-in-uptown/70474240/

Edited March 27, 2015 by RiverwoodCLT

[HopHead]

^So this thing went from dead in the water to alive and kicking again? Color me shocked...

[ah59396]

I'm going to go ahead and put myself firmly in the camp of skepticism on this.  I'll believe it when I see movement on the site.

[tozmervo]

This thing is somewhere behind the "Levine" folder. Not holding my breath.

[kermit]

Yea, this is weird. My guess is there could be two root causes to this 'movement'

1) some type of miracle happened and some small amount of money for the project was found at the federal level

Or

2) the past agreement between CDOT and NCDOT was about to go dormant and they needed some activity to insure that the project didn't get lost in a file cabinet in Raleigh

Number 2 is far more likely, although there is a remote possibility that the FRA was able to find some cash or a loan for the freight side of the trackwork.

The current holdup on the project is actually due to NS sending their demand modeling for the tracks to a consultant, that report is due around September. AFIK no planning, plotting or designwork to any part of the station can begin until NS discloses their track requirements.

Edited March 27, 2015 by kermit

[RiverwoodCLT]

With the attitudes of the law makers in Raleigh, towards Charlotte, I don't think we will get much help there.

[southslider]

^^Combo of 1 and 2: old grant was about to be lost, so CATS and NCDOT found a way to spend it. However, the grant isn't enough to actually relocate Amtrak, and obviously, not enough for Red Line.

[Guest]

Here is another one of the designs that competed for the Gateway Station Design. 

http://wagnermurray.com/civic/charlotte-multimodal-station/

 

Who ended up winning the design contract again?

[kermit]

^ It was Hines (I probably got the name wrong, but it starts with an H). There has been discussions that they drooped out of the project due to uncertain track layouts which changed the amount of developable land. Other stories on the project said Haines was still involved -- its very unclear.