Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[Silicon Dogwoods]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-09/canadian-pacific-said-to-explore-takeover-of-norfolk-southern

 

If it happens, how would it affect Gateway, maybe the Red Line?

Edited November 10, 2015 by Silicon Dogwoods

[Third Strike]

I wonder if the new liberal government in Canada would allow this.

It would be nice if the new company was able to work out a permanent deal with the NCRR, and decided to let the NCDOT build the Red Line along the O-Line corridor.

[Deleted.]

I wonder if the new liberal government in Canada would allow this.

It would be nice if the new company was able to work out a permanent deal with the NCRR, and decided to let the NCDOT build the Red Line along the O-Line corridor.

TBH I don't think the Liberal Party would allow it. But if they did, let's hope for the Red Line. cause driving on I-77 is a f'ing nightmare. 

[Dale]

If it was the Liberal Party of Canada it would probably be some lady from Sri Lanka telling us no.

[Deleted.]

With the opening of Gateway eventually, will the CTC close and be demolished? I thought it was but reading through the 2020 Vision Plan it appears that it won't. I thought that the Gateway would take over the role of the CTC. 

[southslider]

CTC's primary function is a transfer hub. While bus-to-bus transfers work at Gateway, bus transfers to/from LYNX Blue Line do not work at Gateway.

[Deleted.]

58 minutes ago, southslider said:

CTC's primary function is a transfer hub. While bus-to-bus transfers work at Gateway, bus transfers to/from LYNX Blue Line do not work at Gateway.

So the CTC won't be demolished? 

[southslider]

^Not in the near future 

[Guest]

I'll leave this gem here instead of in the Panthers Thread.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/11/30/denver-broncos-new-england-patriots-week-12-nfl-cj-anderson

Please scroll down to the section called "Mr. Starwood Preferred Member Travel Note of the Week"

Has a nice account of traveling down to Charlotte Via Amtrak.

[jednc]

1 hour ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I'll leave this gem here instead of in the Panthers Thread.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/11/30/denver-broncos-new-england-patriots-week-12-nfl-cj-anderson

Please scroll down to the section called "Mr. Starwood Preferred Member Travel Note of the Week"

Has a nice account of traveling down to Charlotte Via Amtrak.

Great "travel note" and it underscores what is so special and unique about North Carolina.

[orulz]

On 10/29/2015, 6:02:42, kermit said:

We haven't seen Total Lamer (the CSX employee) in a while, I hope he returns at some point. I had heard a while ago that since NS controls the interlocking (they were there 'first") they get to decide how many trains run through it. I was skeptical of that statement at the time -- their must be some type of agreement between railroads that limits trains passing through. 

Now that the Clinchfield is closed, there is a slim chance that CSX might be willing to move their intermodal terminal to the other side of town (around Four Mile Creek and 485) if NCDOT was willing to build it for them. If this happened CSX could (theoretically) move its Paw Creek liquid freight through Bostic to Spartanburg (since they now have spare capacity). If this happened then NCDOT and CATS could 1) close the NS interlocking (problem solved) and 2) CATS could take possession of the ROW from downtown to Matthews for LRT (which could terminate at a park and ride at 485 and John St). I think there is currently only one freight customer between Matthews and ADM.

While this strategy has lots of moving parts, it might be cheaper than the original grade separation plans (which had a cost of $128 million) and create bigger  benefits for Charlotte in terms of transit and land use. 

EDIT: The NS Intermodal terminal at the airport cost $90 million to build.

It was not a big deal to take the Blue Line route through South End and Uptown and abandon it, turning it over to Light Rail, because there was a nearby alternate route. As for the CSX line, handing it over for Light Rail would come at the expense of eventual commuter rail to Monroe and direct intercity service to Wilmington. Freight rail is not without merit as well. As an alternative, I would suggest buying the line from CSX and implementing DMU or EMU based service with 1-mile station spacing would be ideal, and move freight to late-night hours. Posted about this idea a few months ago [url=http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/246-charlotte-center-city-streetcar-network/?do=findComment&comment=1371170]here. Connect to the Blue line at Alpha Mill, go through Gateway, and then on to the airport. That gives Charlotte three intersecting transit lines, with the vertices of the central triangle being CTC, Gateway, and Alpha Mill.

 

[SgtCampsalot]

^Hm, good points. I'm starting to get the feeling that LRT for the Silver Line only makes sense if CSX abandons the line, and that won't happen.

If they did DMU freight passenger line, it could still split off from the CSX line around McAlpine Creek Park in Matthews, and then go through the Independence Pointe Parkway (which Matthews is hoping to have rail through), ending at Levine Campus CPCC, then it could meet up with the CSX right after that in Union county to extend as a commuter line.

Otherwise, I just don't see it double-tracking through downtown Matthews. It would remove an important internal corridor road.

Edited December 2, 2015 by SgtCampsalot

[Third Strike]

Would CSX, or Norfolk-Southern for that matter, be open to sharing their tracks with DMU trains? On NS' end, for example, what would be the benefit of allowing CATS to operate a DMU-based passenger line on the O-Line, versus the current plan of using standard locomotives? I'm genuinely curious.

[southslider]

^No, which is why Red Line is shelved.

[ChessieCat]

21 hours ago, Third Strike said:

Would CSX, or Norfolk-Southern for that matter, be open to sharing their tracks with DMU trains? On NS' end, for example, what would be the benefit of allowing CATS to operate a DMU-based passenger line on the O-Line, versus the current plan of using standard locomotives? I'm genuinely curious.

^Not without double-tracking and sidings paid for entirely by NCDOT, doesn't matter what type of locomotive is used

[Third Strike]

I recently read on Wikipedia (and with no citation) that freight railroads must grant access to their tracks to Amtrak upon request (in exchange for a fee). Is this true? So does this mean that if Amtrak wants to open a line between Charlotte and Columbia, they have the legal authority to do so?

[kermit]

^ Sorta.

In reality the freight railroads set the fee for each route based on the degree of disruption to existing and future freight traffic (its not a fixed rate) -- they generally they set the costs so high that route expansion is fiscally impossible.

Having said that, freight traffic is dropping rapidly due to the drastic drop in coal demand and (secondarily) low oil prices. If these traffic losses are sustained then look for freight carriers to 1) upgrade speeds on core routes for speedier intermodal trains and 2) look for new sources of traffic (such as more passenger rail hosting). The future of pax rail in the US _might_ be bright since intermodal trains generally run fast and on a schedule (so pax is less disruptive) and passenger rail creates significantly less wear and tear on tracks than heavy freight.

[ChessieCat]

20 hours ago, Third Strike said:

I recently read on Wikipedia (and with no citation) that freight railroads must grant access to their tracks to Amtrak upon request (in exchange for a fee). Is this true? So does this mean that if Amtrak wants to open a line between Charlotte and Columbia, they have the legal authority to do so?

^Amtrak owns almost all of the Northeast Corridor between DC and Boston so the Class I freight railroads in the eastern US (CSX and NS) get freight trackage rights there but cannot disrupt Amtrak's pax trains.  So if NS wanted to play hardball with Amtrak on a pax line to Columbia, Amtrak can return the favor in the more lucrative Northeast Corridor. 

[CLTProductions]

The parking lot at 3rd, 4th and Graham is closing and packers have been given notice. Here we go......

[tozmervo]

I'm a bit confused... why is it closing? I mean, I know it's part of the broader Gateway project, but is there pending construction we haven't heard about?

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

I'm a bit confused... why is it closing? I mean, I know it's part of the broader Gateway project, but is there pending construction we haven't heard about?

Heres what I'm curious about. (I was also curious when Circa was built on the broader Gateway project land, but thats beside the point)

I'm wondering if this could actually be signaling a start to Northwood Ravin at the Polk Site. This could be closing for construction staging. 

Edited January 28, 2016 by Guest

[cltbwimob]

^^^I hope and pray that is not equipment staging for the Polk State site.  I really don't want to lose that building.  I have been trying to follow the N-R project at Polk State in Acela, and I don't remember anything beyond the initial paperwork that was filed in May 2015, plus they seem much more interested in their Stonewall project, so I assumed that the project had gone dormant.

I was hoping that N-R would just let that project fall by the wayside, at least long enough for some of these mysterious historical preservation initiatives to set in and perhaps save the Polk State building.

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, cltbwimob said:

^^^I hope and pray that is not equipment staging for the Polk State site.  I really don't want to lose that building.  I have been trying to follow the N-R project at Polk State in Acela, and I don't remember anything beyond the initial paperwork that was filed in May 2015, plus they seem much more interested in their Stonewall project, so I assumed that the project had gone dormant.

I was hoping that N-R would just let that project fall by the wayside, at least long enough for some of these mysterious historical preservation initiatives to set in and perhaps save the Polk State building.

 

There has been progress behind the scenes on the Polk Project. But not enough to warrant this. Personally, I'd imagine it'd be staging for something, but even staging needs to be submitted through Acela, so I'm at a loss for what this could be.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Guest

[dcharlotte]

This will be the location of the new City Fair. Literally a fair within the city.

 

 

 

jk.

Edited January 28, 2016 by dcharlotte

[uptownliving]

Well this lot is where the Greyhound station would be relocated to, so most likely this is the groundwork to get that started,