Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[southslider]

^just need a private partner (and CATS to finally request private proposals)

[Desert Power]

15 hours ago, DH17 said:

As someone who lives nearby I also just hope they plan street closures in a logical manner and don't create a 'dead zone' between Gateway Village and Uptown for 6 months at a time.

It's Charlotte, they're totally going to do that. 

Design looks nice though, I like it.

[deleted]

https://slate.com/business/2018/06/el-space-and-redeeming-highway-underpasses.html

Regarding underpass lighting...

[CLT704]

Does anyone know if the track between Hawthorne Lane and Central Avenue can be grade separated? I think it would be a great opportunity, for instance the Gold Line could turn straight onto Central and go p to the Plaza. 

By my very rough calculations, for a train to pass under Central there would be a grade of 3.19%- steep but doable (I don't know enough about trains and railroads). 23ft drop over 720ft (not that accurate) with 80 ft before crossing Central.

Any thoughts?  It seems amazing to be that streets like Siegle Ave are grade separated but Central isn't. 

[kermit]

^ I am sure it could be done, but I am equally sure that CSX would be unwilling to contribute a penny to the job. Given train speeds in the area and the number of other grade crossings on the line, I am sure CSX considers the crossing to be low-risk, so this would need to be a city-funded project.

I don’t remeber the topo there well but I suspect that it would be much cheaper to build Central over the tracks instead of digging a trench for the railroad. Unfortunately the new apartments at the Beaver (plus the Beaver Preservation Society) would make a Cemtral overpass  much more difficult (and bad for urbanism).

[dubone]

To me, it would be ideal if they simply planned the Central bridge over CSX as part of the Gold Line project all along.  Regardless, it already ought to be a city project given how major of a corridor Central is and how slowly the trains go in this area.  With the hill up to the heart of Midwood, the grade would really be just shifting that grade / hill to west of the tracks with a short bridge over the railroad. 

It is a huge miss that they didn't have that on the books all along and allowed all the apartments in the area to plan ahead for the target grade, so they could address a new higher street level.  But they didn't, so now it will be a negative for the area to have the ramp up to go over the tracks.  

On the flip-side, the compromise plan for the Gold Line to continue down Hawthorne and double back on Clement is actually probably a great thing for that part of Belmont and in support of the mill conversions and other growth in that area, too.  

 

While it is water under the  um  bridge, I somewhat dumbstruck that they had to replace the Hawthorne bridge for the Gold Line, and with the Silver line planned along Independence, they should have simply reapplied the bridge replacement budget to start the new right of way along Independence to Pecan.   It would be right of way that the Silver Line will use eventually anyway and could have allowed the streetcar to get to the heart of Midwood in this phase.    But I know that type of redirect would have been extremely difficult that late in the stage, and they simply used the streetcar budget to replace the bridge, even though I think it was equally motivated so they could remove the pillar supports from Independence to give them more flexibility for the express lanes.   

 

[orulz]

The railroad is approximately flat between Siegle and Louise at 700' elevation, and then begins a 1% uphill grade, past Central at 715', climbing all the way to an elevation of 725' at Independence. where it starts going downhill again.

You could start the 1% grade at Siegle instead,  which would result in a peak elevation of 730' at Central, dropping back down to 725' at Independence. This would make the railroad 15' higher than it is now at Central. You'd then have to lower Central by about 5' and Louise by perhaps 8' to go under the tracks, which wouldn't be very disruptive to the streetscape at all.

In all it would be about 3/4 mile of construction and you get two new grade separations at Central and Louise, raise the slightly substandard clearance at Hawthorne, and replace the obsolete bridge at Hawthorne with a modern design with ballasted deck. Not cheap but not insanely expensive either. Maybe on the order of $50~$100 million.

[dubone]

CSX scuttled the fully funded Mainline Grade Separation which actually benefited them in the long run due to the short run disruption.  There is no way they'd play ball with such a disruptive rebuild just for a Central Ave crossing.   Plus, dropping Central would then make it have such a steep uphill east of the tracks that it would definitely be out for streetcar.  

But that is interesting, and maybe enough win with the multiple crossings to make it worthwhile. 

 

[orulz]

The existing grade is about 4%; the S70s should be able to handle 5% without difficulty, I think that's the grade they used for the ramps on the Blue Line. Of course no platforms 

Dig the road gradually lower over 500', but leave the sidewalks at their current level. To the west you'd only have to dig east of Lamar.

[dubone]

Thanks for further analyzing that.  

 

I am slightly confused as to why it has never shown up as even a possible project or need in the city. I know the streetcar extensions are not a very high priority right now, but hopefully they look into this fresh when they consider the next phase.    

[uptownliving]

Presentation about Gateway Station was made to the City Council tonight. They are moving forward with plans to buy the Meck Co land adjacent to BBT Ballpark and use that land for the CATS operations.

Also, it stated that in Phase 1 construction begins in July and will only include the foundations for the canopy.

If all goes well we will have the station operating at Gateway by 2022.

The actual canopy that has been depicted in renderings will come in Phase 2

 

 

[dubone]

Thanks for the clarification, as it was ambiguous in the previous documentation about the canopy.  

 

I thought that the city and county had a bit more tradition of land swapping rather than paying Meck county outright, as CIP money spent on that land will take away from other investments.   Seems there would normally be equivalent city land that could have been given to the county that would support their needs.    But here's hoping the county spends that money on something like some of the bond projects that have been frozen for ages. 

Looking forward to seeing the station progress and most significantly to see if they can succeed in getting development to come on what is somewhat terrible land next to the horn-happy railroad. 

[Matthew.Brendan]

This is one that I have not fully followed as it seems to have changed so much over the years. Now that it’s close to actually starting can we get a recap of what all this will entail? It’s basically a new train station for Amtrak? Will the light rail tie into it at all? Busses? Does it have anything to do with the eventual CTC move? Thanks!

[dubone]

1 hour ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

This is one that I have not fully followed as it seems to have changed so much over the years. Now that it’s close to actually starting can we get a recap of what all this will entail? It’s basically a new train station for Amtrak? Will the light rail tie into it at all? Busses? Does it have anything to do with the eventual CTC move? Thanks!

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article193815299.html

Phase I has a contract with a construction company, therefore 'under construction' which is purely for the track work.

That is while the city crafts a deal to leverage private development to build the remainder.    The goals have been somewhat reduced with just a small station building to tie in with the suspension system for a station canopy. 

http://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/charlotte-gateway-station/Pages/gateway-station.aspx

 

http://charlottenc.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=3065

Section 6 to listen to the video updating the city leadership on the progress and the need to finish buying some of the land for the 'south block' that will house CATS and Greyhound buses. 

[kermit]

Interesting story from the Greenville Business Magazine today on efforts to encourage / promote / plan (but not fund) corridor rail service in SC. Apparently their is a state legislator from Charleston who is attempting to get a study bill passed.  The plans talk about sketches to connect Greenville, Columbia and Charleston to Charlotte (with the implication being that Charlotte to Atlanta service would have a spur to Charleston via Columbia (likely in Spartanburg), although it would likely be much cheaper to run the Charleston branch CLT-Columbia-Charleston).

Anyway the article is realistic enough to admit that any state funding for such a service is unrealistic (at best) and to also show that SC legislators have no conception about the financial returns generated by rail. Nevertheless it is encouraging to hear that plans are at least being discussed.

http://www.greenvillebusinessmag.com/2018/07/05/176443/high-speed-rail-inches-forward

Edited July 5, 2018 by kermit

[KJHburg]

WSOC TV is reporting this tonight from the county commission meeting.  I didn't realize there would be residential as apart of this.   

Joe Bruno‏Verified account @JoeBrunoWSOC9 28m28 minutes ago

More

County says the offer for 5 parcels near BB&T Ballpark is $6.81 million. Land will be used for a mixed-use development near the new Gateway Station. 40 of the housing units will be affordable housing #meckbocc

Edited July 11, 2018 by KJHburg

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

The groundbreaking of Gateway Station begins Friday!   https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article214956630.html

"The groundbreaking planned this week includes the start of work for the tracks, signals, structures and passenger platform along the rail tracks. "

This is going to be a multi-year process, but glad to see it finally come to fruition.  Hopefully, the construction (platforms) will give us an idea of how that area will look someday.  Pretty exciting news...so glad to see action on this.  Our current station is embarrassing for a city our size, let alone compared to any other Amtrak station I've seen/visited.

Edited July 16, 2018 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[Dale]

Existing station is an embarrassment ... especially after you've seen Raleigh's new station.

[Crucial_Infra]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

Existing station is an embarrassment ... especially after you've seen Raleigh's new station.

Charlotte and Raleigh are constantly leapfrogging  each other in the infra department. CLT airport *terminals* have been subpar compared to RDU's upgrades but not for long... And this new train station will leapfrog Raleigh eventually too. 

[DH17]

Well, as soon as they close the sidewalk I will have to change my walking commute down 5th. The other side is already closed further down due to the new police station, and I don't plan on jaywalking every day.

[dubone]

Exciting that it CGS Phase I is now under construction!  Groundbreaking was earlier today.

 

I know there was some back and forth on whether the canopy is included in this phase, although maybe someone has already found this detail, but I went to look again because the WFAE article on it had a rendering of Phase I with the canopy.  

http://wfae.org/post/track-work-begins-uptowns-gateway-station-site#stream/0

 It seems that the contract with Crowder (C204058) is for TIP P-5705BA and P-5705BB

On the TIP, that does include the Canopy.  But maybe there is a nuance to that I am missing, like maybe just a basic canopy but not the suspended bridge-like canopy rendered. 

REG BA CHARLOTTE GATEWAY STATION - TRACK, STRUCTURE, AND SIGNALS

REG BB CHARLOTTE GATEWAY STATION - PLATFORM AND CANOPY

 

[Hunted]

On 7/20/2018 at 3:58 PM, dubone said:

Exciting that it CGS Phase I is now under construction!  Groundbreaking was earlier today.

 

I know there was some back and forth on whether the canopy is included in this phase, although maybe someone has already found this detail, but I went to look again because the WFAE article on it had a rendering of Phase I with the canopy.  

http://wfae.org/post/track-work-begins-uptowns-gateway-station-site#stream/0

 It seems that the contract with Crowder (C204058) is for TIP P-5705BA and P-5705BB

On the TIP, that does include the Canopy.  But maybe there is a nuance to that I am missing, like maybe just a basic canopy but not the suspended bridge-like canopy rendered. 

REG BA CHARLOTTE GATEWAY STATION - TRACK, STRUCTURE, AND SIGNALS

REG BB CHARLOTTE GATEWAY STATION - PLATFORM AND CANOPY

 

Are all those lots in the picture fenced off?

[TheOneRJ]

Is there a plan for the existing bus terminal once this is completed? 

[Matthew.Brendan]

Hopefully it goes away and gets redeveloped in the future as part of the inevitable N. Tryon corridor expansion/rehab. The stretch down to Matheson is going to look mighty different over the next 10 years. 

[dubone]

4 hours ago, TheOneRJ said:

Is there a plan for the existing bus terminal once this is completed? 

If you are referring to the Greyhound station, yes, it is part of the plans for this project to rebuild it a block to the south blended with a parking deck and some bays for CATS.

http://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/charlotte-gateway-station/Pages/gateway-station.aspx

If you are referring to the CTC by the blue line, it has nothing to do with Gateway Station.    Nothing about Gateway Station is even remotely close to trying to replace CTC.