Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[DamicoKaren]

What is this they are building at the intersection of 5th and 6th street in Gateway? 

[Guest]

What is this they are building at the intersection of 5th and 6th street in Gateway? 

New police station.


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[Dale]

Dour-sounding report on WSOC about Gateway. Tone was, “Ground broken a year ago. Big splash. Still haven’t found a developer.”

[CLT>]

23 minutes ago, Dale said:

Dour-sounding report on WSOC about Gateway. Tone was, “Ground broken a year ago. Big splash. Still haven’t found a developer.”

The RFP was released June 29 so not sure how quick WSOC expected things to progress. Maybe by 11 pm on the 29th? 

[Dale]

1 hour ago, CLT> said:

The RFP was released June 29 so not sure how quick WSOC expected things to progress. Maybe by 11 pm on the 29th? 

He-he

[navigator319]

The RFP was released June 29 so not sure how quick WSOC expected things to progress. Maybe by 11 pm on the 29th?

 

 

 

It was acutely only an RFQ. RFP will be next step to the RFQ ‘winners’.

[Guest]

I’m asking around contacts but anyone know why the Hines proposal in 2012 fell thru. I find it very interesting that it’s been slashed in half, land wise, since then.


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[atlrvr]

It was slashed in half by NCDOT then as well (after Hines was named), which was why they walked away.  Smaller project and timing uncertainty.

[Guest]

On 4/4/2012 at 2:13 PM, dubone said:

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/planning/facilities/gatewaystation/Documents/CGS.pdf

 

They do have more room for tracks than what I said earlier, but still nothing like what traditional stations contain, often dozens of tracks for trains to different locations.

 

I don't see the site plan that I was referring to that shows that that the only way to access tracks such as the Red line is on 4th or Trade street sidewalks, but I have seen one.

 

Also, this IS our plan. It's the one that has had it's environmental impact, and plenty of renderings, including the best one on page one of this thread posted by RDF21.

 

Basically, what our station will be is a few tracks with a small covering, 3 small office buildings one of which will have a big lobby which will be considered the station's grand hall, and a green roof plaza over a few bus bays, and some streetscape improvements.

 

I'm just being down on it this week, because I wish it was a grander scale. In the end, the rail improvements we can probably ever hope for in this era will be this, and it will be far better and more convenient than the current one.

 

And no, Orulz, I didn't mean to imply it was downsized from previous plans, simply that the plans we have had all along do not seem to be far reaching enough.

Nobody has the original PDF do they? Theres a story here. 

[Guest]

https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Design Build Program/Charlotte Gateway Station/Executive Summary - Feasibility Study.pdf

https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Design Build Program/Charlotte Gateway Station/Multimodal Station Area Plan Planning Process Update.pdf

https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Pages/Design-Build-Letting-Details.aspx?let_id=Charlotte Gateway Station

 

All info is here

[Yeahdoug]

Has anybody touched on the fact that train whistles will now become a new issue inside the uptown loop? Love the project, but with so much money spent in the Charlotte area on removing at grade crossings, this is going to create a bunch of train horn noise right in uptown that doesn’t exist now. The Amtrak train will have to sound their whistle entering and leaving and most likely the freight train will sound passing by, whether they legally have to or not. Lots of high end apartment and condo will be less than a 1/4 mile from the station/track. Yes, mine will be one. I actually like the low rumble of the freight train currently, but dread the day that the whistles will start with the new station right outside.

 

 

[Desert Power]

13 minutes ago, Yeahdoug said:

Has anybody touched on the fact that train whistles will now become a new issue inside the uptown loop? Love the project, but with so much money spent in the Charlotte area on removing at grade crossings, this is going to create a bunch of train horn noise right in uptown that doesn’t exist now. The Amtrak train will have to sound their whistle entering and leaving and most likely the freight train will sound passing by, whether they legally have to or not. Lots of high end apartment and condo will be less than a 1/4 mile from the station/track. Yes, mine will be one. I actually like the low rumble of the freight train currently, but dread the day that the whistles will start with the new station right outside.

 

 

Yeah, that will probably happen.  Share some of the horns we get in Villa Heights all the time.

[kermit]

10 minutes ago, Yeahdoug said:

Has anybody touched on the fact that train whistles will now become a new issue inside the uptown loop? Love the project, but with so much money spent in the Charlotte area on removing at grade crossings, this is going to create a bunch of train horn noise right in uptown that doesn’t exist now. The Amtrak train will have to sound their whistle entering and leaving and most likely the freight train will sound passing by, whether they legally have to or not. Lots of high end apartment and condo will be less than a 1/4 mile from the station/track. Yes, mine will be one. I actually like the low rumble of the freight train currently, but dread the day that the whistles will start with the new station right outside.

Gateway will certainly generate some horn noise but I don't think it will be a huge problem.  I believe their will be a concrete  barrier separating the freight tracks from the station tracks, this will remove the need for freights to make any alert sounds when passing by (although I am not certain about this barrier). Amtrak does not typically 'toot' when arriving at a station and the decision to sound the horn on departure is a local one rather than being a regulatory requirement.

I would bet that PA noise might be a bigger issue.

[Yeahdoug]

4 minutes ago, kermit said:

Gateway will certainly generate some horn noise but I don't think it will be a huge problem.  I believe their will be a concrete  barrier separating the freight tracks from the station tracks, this will remove the need for freights to make any alert sounds when passing by (although I am not certain about this barrier). Amtrak does not typically 'toot' when arriving at a station and the decision to sound the horn on departure is a local one rather than being a regulatory requirement.

I would bet that PA noise might be a bigger issue.

Yeah, i’ve been talking to one of the Gateway PMs, they expect Amtrak to sound when they transition to the station tracks and most likely before moving. While not required it seems most Amtrak engineers do this. 

My PA questions went unaddressed as they probably don’t know what kind of effect it will have, i’m actually trying to get a copy of the updated Gateway environmental study right now as the only one available online was from all the old proposals and there wasn’t much on noise and vibration. 

[XRZ.ME]

Charlotte railyard from summit ave. Is it in use now?


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[kermit]

1 hour ago, XRZ.ME said:

Charlotte railyard from summit ave. Is it in use now?

Nope, still not tied into the main (when I last checked about a month ago).

The plan is to have a dedicated track from Gateway to the facility and (I believe) competing it is part of the current Gateway rail project. Nearly all of the dedicated track already exists and you can see it here: https://goo.gl/maps/tizPhYvRLuG6my2H8 (it also has its own bridge over Morehead). Its a nice setup since it will mean that passenger gear can travel to and from the facility without fouling the NS main.

When its finally opened we should see an additional coach added to the Carolinian (I think) and some Piedmont gear being stored in Charlotte allowing for better modification of train size to match demand (Piedmont consists can only be modified in Raleigh currently).

One tricky thing will be the Crescent, it refuels and changes crew in Charlotte (a fuel truck drives up to the platform at the N Tryon station). Crew changes are planned to take place at the Summit street facility and I don't believe their is a way to get a fuel truck up to Gateway. Getting into (and out of) the maintenance facility will require a significant backing move -- none of this is a deal breaker, but the current track configuration will slow the Crescent.

TLDR: No

EDIT: NCDOT was required to finish stage 1 of the storage / maintenance facility by X date due to the terms of the ARRA grant which paid for it. I believe the demise of the CSX grade separation caused them to decide not to use it until Gateway becomes operational. 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by kermit

[Dale]

Has the city hinted at future plans for the existing Amtrak station ?

[kermit]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

Has the city hinted at future plans for the existing Amtrak station ?

Its owned by NS.

[Dale]

34 minutes ago, kermit said:

Its owned by NS.

Gotcha, would think they’d want to capitalize on it though.

[Desert Power]

2 hours ago, Dale said:

2 hours ago, kermit said:

Its owned by NS.

Gotcha, would think they’d want to capitalize on it though.

They're notorious slow.  Would be great if they moved the rest of the storage to the airport and sold the entire piece of land so we could develop it next to the light rail.

[kermit]

4 hours ago, Dale said:

Gotcha, would think they’d want to capitalize on it though.

Norfolk Southern is mostly focused on yard security and minimizing trespassers. Developing property like the current Charlotte station is not high on their list of priorities.

IIRC the station was built at the end of the passenger rail era / dawn of Amtrak. Southern RR (the owner at the time) thought the station would just be temporary and they had planned to use it as their own office space when passenger trains finally stopped running (everyone thought that would be within a decade of Amtrak's 1971 creation).

Edited August 5, 2019 by kermit

[videtur quam contuor]

I took the Southern Crescent from New Orleans to Charlotte in 1973 or '74. It was still Southern RR with black porters and servers in the white linen dining car and so on. Quite the experience. I read The Gulag Archipelago over the 16+ hours of the journey, 800 pages or so. Perfect companion piece. The current station looked mostly then as it does now.

I know that  at about that time school groups occasionally made day trips to DC from that location. Catch the train at 1 am, exit Union Station DC 9 am, straight onto the Mall, have a bag lunch, visit the sights and board the return to arrive CLT at 3 am or so. MAJOR propers to the parents and teachers who chaperone such event.

Wiki has more info about this and says station is from 1962. If one looks at the station from the front it is easily apparent that ventilation and AC and other "improvements" have been tacked on with little to no concern for overall appearance.

At some point in the past few years I was there for another family member traveling and the freight office was the most active part of the building since freight moves 24/7.

 

[XRZ.ME]

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[Jasons0013]

1 hour ago, XRZ.ME said:

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Does anyone know when are they supposed to move here?

 

[CLT2014]

At least they got it slightly further away from the bridge so you can see them charge at you. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by CLT2014