Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[KJHburg]

Not sure if this right place but land is being secured for the new Harrisburg Amtrak station.

https://harrisburgnc.org/CivicAlerts.aspx

[kermit]

57 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Not sure if this right place but land is being secured for the new Harrisburg Amtrak station.

https://harrisburgnc.org/CivicAlerts.aspx

First step towards Airport/Gastonia/Kings Mountain - Concord/Kannapolis/Salisbury commuter rail...

Edited August 15, 2019 by kermit

[King of the Queen City]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Not sure if this right place but land is being secured for the new Harrisburg Amtrak station.

https://harrisburgnc.org/CivicAlerts.aspx

I wonder how feasible it would be to take the blue line up 49 and have it terminate there if Cabarrus County would contribute? This would provide better Amtrak access to the University area.

[kermit]

2 minutes ago, King of the Queen City said:

I wonder how feasible it would be to take the blue line up 49 and have it terminate there if Cabarrus County would contribute? This would provide better Amtrak access to the University area.

My impression is Cabarrus has their heart set on a blue line extension along US 29 to the Speedway (and beyond). (I don't really think that routing would be practical or useful but I am not the guy signing the checks)

[King of the Queen City]

42 minutes ago, kermit said:

My impression is Cabarrus has their heart set on a blue line extension along US 29 to the Speedway (and beyond). (I don't really think that routing would be practical or useful but I am not the guy signing the checks)

Cabarrus could still extend it further if they wish, but it’s hard for me to imagine a lot of people taking the light rail to the speedway.  The tracks are already pointing more towards 49 from UNC Charlotte Main Station and could meet up with 49 around John Kirk Drive.

 

[KJHburg]

I will put this here the huge intermodal yard at CLT airport off West Blvd and I-485.  Every time I occasionally drive by it, it seems busier and busier.  Anyone know how many "lifts" they are up to now?    http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/shipping-options/intermodal/terminals-and-schedules/charlotte-n-c-.html   Actually according to this chart is quicker service to Savannah than to Charleston.  Good thing Savannah is the 4th largest container port in the USA

On the passenger front I do think NCDOT is setting up for future regional commuter rail with the new station in Harrisburg and of course there is one in Kannapolis.  The fastest growing  part of Cabarrus is on the Harrisburg side of Concord so the new proposed Harrisburg station would allow easy commutes to uptown Gateway station. 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by KJHburg

[KJHburg]

this concerns the new Harrisburg Amtrak station and I would think it would attract many University area residents as well as Cabarrus county residents and possibly even students at UNC Charlotte coming from Triangle etc as it is quicker Uber or Lyft ride to the campus.

https://justoutsidetheloop.com/2019/08/26/town-officials-train-station-brings-benefits-now-and-down-the-tracks/?fbclid=IwAR0VUYIYcSccMjfeRtzYVizUAwYf4ISftL8A44s2JuME4fZHFFZ1sjRuouE

[orulz]

this concerns the new Harrisburg Amtrak station and I would think it would attract many University area residents as well as Cabarrus county residents and possibly even students at UNC Charlotte coming from Triangle etc as it is quicker Uber or Lyft ride to the campus.
https://justoutsidetheloop.com/2019/08/26/town-officials-train-station-brings-benefits-now-and-down-the-tracks/?fbclid=IwAR0VUYIYcSccMjfeRtzYVizUAwYf4ISftL8A44s2JuME4fZHFFZ1sjRuouE

The ship has sailed on this it seems, but NC49 and Mallard Creek Church (walking distance to the university, and a potential target for an extension of the Blue Line) would have been a better spot for this IMO. They considered it but rejected it, largely because the parcel was too small if I recall correctly. Funny thing is, the parcel they wound up choosing in Harrisburg is smaller than the one they rejected near the university.

[tozmervo]

It appears the new (temporary) Greyhound station is now open. 

[Skyybutter]

On 8/17/2019 at 9:54 PM, KJHburg said:

I will put this here the huge intermodal yard at CLT airport off West Blvd and I-485.  Every time I occasionally drive by it, it seems busier and busier.  Anyone know how many "lifts" they are up to now?    http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/shipping-options/intermodal/terminals-and-schedules/charlotte-n-c-.html   Actually according to this chart is quicker service to Savannah than to Charleston.  Good thing Savannah is the 4th largest container port in the USA

On the passenger front I do think NCDOT is setting up for future regional commuter rail with the new station in Harrisburg and of course there is one in Kannapolis.  The fastest growing  part of Cabarrus is on the Harrisburg side of Concord so the new proposed Harrisburg station would allow easy commutes to uptown Gateway station. 

 

Im thrilled about the Hburg station. I technically live in Concord but closer to Hburg. While the area is growing fast I think the fastest growing area in Cabarrus is Poplar Tent around Harris Rd as well as the Cox Mill Rd area near CMills. 

I think Cabarrus will see the regional rail like you said but also I think the Blue Line will somehow extend again into Cabarrus via 29.  Not because of the speedway necessarily. I think the old Phillip Morris site will evolve into a major employment and residential center much like Ballantyne. 

 

 

[XRZ.ME]

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/federal_legislation_regulation/news/FRA-releases-draft-environmental-documents-for-Long-Bridge-project--58513?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

Draft EIS released for Long Bridge in DC

[XRZ.ME]

Finally some wooden floor on trade st railbridge. Almost no work east of it.
The bridge for 4th st begin construction. Some tanker on old greyhound parking lot.


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[kermit]

Similar view of Gateway tracks at Trade st (from 4th), old Greyhound station at right. (Open Streets!)

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by kermit

[XRZ.ME]

Bridge over 5th st. Work continue for 4th and 6th st.


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[kermit]

Heard today that the passenger equipment and storage yard won’t open until Gateway track work is finished (about 1.5 years?) due to NS intransigence.

The Gateway RFP’s we’re due to the city on September 11th so I would think we would get news on those soon.  I did hear a rumor today (I have absolutely no idea about the quality of the rumor source) that the Tepper organization submitted a proposal for the Gateway land.  This thought does align nicely with his recent interest in trains....

Edited September 22, 2019 by kermit

[KJHburg]

18 hours ago, kermit said:

The Gateway RFP’s we’re due to the city on September 11th so I would think we would get news on those soon.  I did hear a rumor today (I have absolutely no idea about the quality of the rumor source) that the Tepper organization submitted a proposal for the Gateway land.  This thought does align nicely with his recent interest in trains....

are you talking about the land right around the new station where a mixed used development is planned?  this is very interesting and would show me he has no long term  plans to move the stadium or the team outside of uptown. 

[kermit]

6 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

are you talking about the land right around the new station where a mixed used development is planned?  

Yes, that was the rumor.

[kermit]

The Draft EIS for Charlotte to Atlanta passenger rail has been released.

Executive Summary: http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/Rail/Documents/Atl-Char/02-Executive Summary.pdf

Full Doc: http://www.dot.ga.gov/IS/Rail/AtlantatoCharlotte/EIS

The numbers are really steering clear of the NS-Crescent route. Greenfield is cheaper than I had thought it would be. 6 million riders is about 24 full trains per day (12 each way). By way of comparison the Virgin route (which they have said they plan to build) from Victorville to Las Vegas is estimated to be $4 billion (and it ends more than 80 miles from Los Angeles) and Texas Central (Dallas to Houston true HSR) is about 20 miles longer is estimated to cost about $14 billion.

If Texas Central gets off the ground and comes close to being in the black then we will see greenfield HSR between Charlotte and Atlanta shortly after that.

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by kermit

[jthomas]

I too am pleasantly surprised by how well the greenfield option performed in this analysis - it seems to be the superior choice by far. It will be interesting to see how the alignments get refined, particularly the Atlanta approach (I think they have the right general idea).

On a side note, it is hard to come up with a good way to serve Greenville and Spartanburg on a high-speed line. Normally I'm not crazy about the French approach of bypassing intermediate cities (ex. Montpellier or the Bordeaux line), but I think that could be the best strategy in this case.  Perhaps there could be 1-2 stations on the bypass which get the majority of trains, while some trains could serve the central stations via upgraded legacy tracks.

[ertley]

I have a lot of family in the Clover area, and so I looked in depth at the Greenfield route through the area, and literally it's projected to pass through a brand new middle school that's not even pictured on the Bing map they used for the visualization, so that right of way purchase through there just went up quite a bit. 

[Madison Parkitect]

1 minute ago, ertley said:

I have a lot of family in the Clover area, and so I looked in depth at the Greenfield route through the area, and literally it's projected to pass through a brand new middle school that's not even pictured on the Bing map they used for the visualization, so that right of way purchase through there just went up quite a bit. 

What's wrong with a train going 220mph through a middle school?

[ertley]

17 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

What's wrong with a train going 220mph through a middle school?

They could even get a better, newer (it's literally only 3 or so years old) school complex out of it--I mean, it'll be 10 years at least until this happens--but there's still a (beautiful) field across the road, so if that were the chosen option they'd likely alter the route several hundred feet to the east... But regardless I can just *see* the tempest this'd stir up in town!  

[SgtCampsalot]

9 hours ago, Madison Parkitect said:

What's wrong with a train going 220mph through a middle school?

I am so American; the first thought I had when I saw those potential speed ranges was "How could a train ever go 200+ mph?" 

Edited September 25, 2019 by SgtCampsalot

[dubone]

So exciting to see progress in this front.  

I know within the lens of the Charlotte-Atlanta route, this doesn't seem the best, but I really vastly prefer the 77-20 route, Charlotte-Columbia - Augusta-Atlanta.   Adding 50 miles to the route would be an impact, but is so better in the big picture considering that it builds towards the Florida system that now exists and is working towards Jacksonville.   From Augusta to Jacksonville is 240 miles or so vs 380 miles from Charlotte-Jacksonville *or the absurd 480 mile Raleigh - Jacksonville route through nearly no intermediate cities they put in that old HSR map.)   

High Speed rail is of course about medium distance connections.  But the more they can string together while connecting a larger network will have the most long term opportunity.  Going through Columbia/Augusta  vs GSP/Athens is nearly a wash as far as population, but the long term opportunities to the Florida system.

It seems they already ruled out all 3 southeastern corridors, so they are just focusing on the roughly 85 / upstate corridors.  Given that, I think the 85 route itself is my favorite of the 3, but all 3 seem like great intermediate destinations and obviously shorter total route. 

[DEnd]

2 hours ago, dubone said:

It seems they already ruled out all 3 southeastern corridors, so they are just focusing on the roughly 85 / upstate corridors.  Given that, I think the 85 route itself is my favorite of the 3, but all 3 seem like great intermediate destinations and obviously shorter total route. 

They were only ever going to focus on the 85 corridor.  This work is done by the Georgia DOT and it makes sense for them to favor GSP over Columbia.
 

18 hours ago, jthomas said:

I too am pleasantly surprised by how well the greenfield option performed in this analysis - it seems to be the superior choice by far. It will be interesting to see how the alignments get refined, particularly the Atlanta approach (I think they have the right general idea).

On a side note, it is hard to come up with a good way to serve Greenville and Spartanburg on a high-speed line. Normally I'm not crazy about the French approach of bypassing intermediate cities (ex. Montpellier or the Bordeaux line), but I think that could be the best strategy in this case.  Perhaps there could be 1-2 stations on the bypass which get the majority of trains, while some trains could serve the central stations via upgraded legacy tracks.

I too think the Greenfield wins.  And I too am not entirely crazy about just hitting GSP over the city centers in Greenville and Spartanburg.  And my local preference is for the Crescent route.  But more than doubling the money and almost doubling the travel time (I-85 and Crescent respectively) makes the Greenfield the obvious choice.  The Crescent alignment just makes no sense.  It's faster, cheaper, more profitable and more frequent service to just provide buses.  I-85 and Greenfield provide clear alternatives to car and plane travel.