Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[michaelef]

This was just posted on Instagram 

[QCxpat]

Today 10:55 a.m. - Norfolk Southern RR & W. Trade St. - new railbed

 

[CLT704]

1 hour ago, michaelef said:

This was just posted on Instagram 

It appears that SOM are involved as the architects, if so this is gonna be HUGE! I remember how excited I was for the Little proposal but I think that is going to be blown out of the water. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, CLT704 said:

It appears that SOM are involved as the architects, if so this is gonna be HUGE! I remember how excited I was for the Little proposal but I think that is going to be blown out of the water. 

I'm telling ya.

[Cadi40]

When will we learn more about the specifics? 

[Madison Parkitect]

I've only seen one rendering besides the one posted on Instagram just now, but if it ends up like what I've seen it'll become the new gravitational center of uptown.

Edit: I'm a little surprised ColeJenest & Stone released a rendering and even tagged SOM in the post, as far as I know nothing has been announced yet and having SOM as the architects is a major get for Charlotte.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Madison Parkitect

[videtur quam contuor]

Skidmore Owings Merrill is the SOM trio. For those who are more familiar with the name rather than the intitialism. (Such as I)

[Madison Parkitect]

30 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

Skidmore Owings Merrill is the SOM trio. For those who are more familiar with the name rather than the intitialism. (Such as I)

And to expand on that, they're one of the most important architecture firms in the world, pretty much invented modern skyscraper design, and would be by far the biggest architectural name to grace Charlotte. Having SOM do a project here is a MAJOR deal.

[B Randy]

1 minute ago, Madison Parkitect said:

And to expand on that, they're one of the most important architecture firms in the world, pretty much invented modern skyscraper design, and would be by far the biggest architectural name to grace Charlotte. Having SOM do a project here is a MAJOR deal.

SOM has had someone in Charlotte for a couple of years...likely pursuing this project. 

[SouthEndCLT811]

Wow, the projects on SOM's page are impressive.  I'll take one of these for Gateway

https://www.som.com/projects/the_78

https://www.som.com/projects/philadelphia_30th_street_station_district_plan

[Cadi40]

I thought it was recently that I heard some talks regarding the scope of this project not coming to fruition, has that changed? Hopefully this is not just hype.

[Norm2]

8 hours ago, Madison Parkitect said:

I've only seen one rendering besides the one posted on Instagram just now, but if it ends up like what I've seen it'll become the new gravitational center of uptown.

Edit: I'm a little surprised ColeJenest & Stone released a rendering and even tagged SOM in the post, as far as I know nothing has been announced yet and having SOM as the architects is a major get for Charlotte.

Which IG account was the rending posted to?

[Madison Parkitect]

4 hours ago, norm21499 said:

Which IG account was the rending posted to?

The one someone posted near the top of this page was posted to ColeJenest & Stone's IG account. As far as I know that's the only one that's been released publicly, and to be honest I'm pretty surprised the civil engineer/landscape architect was allowed to be the first one to break the embargo.

Edit: Haha they also tagged the other team partners in the post so, uh, if that news wasn't public yet I guess it is now. Looks like Arup is the engineering firm, which is almost as big of a deal as SOM being the architects. With SOM and Arup on board I feel comfortable saying this would be the most important current project south of NYC. Those guys doing the project means Charlotte gets serious international recognition, especially if it's a legit multimodal transit hub.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Madison Parkitect

[B Randy]

24 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

The one someone posted near the top of this page was posted to ColeJenest & Stone's IG account. As far as I know that's the only one that's been released publicly, and to be honest I'm pretty surprised the civil engineer/landscape architect was allowed to be the first one to break the embargo.

Edit: Haha they also tagged the other team partners in the post so, uh, if that news wasn't public yet I guess it is now. Looks like Arup is the engineering firm, which is almost as big of a deal as SOM being the architects. With SOM and Arup on board I feel comfortable saying this would be the most important current project south of NYC. Those guys doing the project means Charlotte gets serious international recognition, especially if it's a serious multimodal transit hub.

I think CJS just posted info that was already out there.  Ashley Fahey tweeted the entire team a few days ago.  Render was in her article. Team sounds awesome.

[15895]

13 hours ago, Madison Parkitect said:

The one someone posted near the top of this page was posted to ColeJenest & Stone's IG account. As far as I know that's the only one that's been released publicly, and to be honest I'm pretty surprised the civil engineer/landscape architect was allowed to be the first one to break the embargo.

Edit: Haha they also tagged the other team partners in the post so, uh, if that news wasn't public yet I guess it is now. Looks like Arup is the engineering firm, which is almost as big of a deal as SOM being the architects. With SOM and Arup on board I feel comfortable saying this would be the most important current project south of NYC. Those guys doing the project means Charlotte gets serious international recognition, especially if it's a legit multimodal transit hub.

 

I doubt it would be the most important project south of NYC. Even if this isn't totally pie in the sky, which I would be completely shocked if this came true at all. No insider by any means, it just seems a little silly.

Also, Charlotte's Transit hub would basically by CTC 2.0. There will never be much Amtrak traffice outside of a couple trains to CLT; I see no reason for it to be any more grand than Raleigh Union Station.

Not trying to be a downer, just don't want to get disappointed.

Edited June 12, 2020 by AirNostrumMAD

[stiluvclt]

I realize that some of you great UPers are privy to better info than the rest of us but I curiously ask: Is Skidmore officially involved with this project?

 

[Madison Parkitect]

1 hour ago, stiluvclt said:

I realize that some of you great UPers are privy to better info than the rest of us but I curiously ask: Is Skidmore officially involved with this project?

 

It appears so, yes. They're the architects on the list of project team members that's been publicized. 

 

2 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

I doubt it would be the most important project south of NYC. Even if this isn't totally pie in the sky, which I would be completely shocked if this came true at all. No insider by any means, it just seems a little silly.

Also, Charlotte's Transit hub would basically by CTC 2.0. There will never be much Amtrak traffice outside of a couple trains to CLT; I see no reason for it to be any more grand than Raleigh Union Station.

Not trying to be a downer, just don't want to get disappointed.

Not most important project overall, just most important project currently being constructed. If it gets built the way it looks on paper so far. And Raleigh Union Station is just a train station; this will be multiple types of transit and a huge amount of commercial and residential space. It's going to be a big big big deal if it goes through.

[KJHburg]

RUS or Raleigh Union Station is a lot more than just a train station too.  They have proposal out for high rise mixed use tower next door where a major bus transfer point will be built.  

http://rusbusnc.com/

[JRCLT]

On 6/12/2020 at 11:57 AM, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

I doubt it would be the most important project south of NYC. Even if this isn't totally pie in the sky, which I would be completely shocked if this came true at all. No insider by any means, it just seems a little silly.

Also, Charlotte's Transit hub would basically by CTC 2.0. There will never be much Amtrak traffice outside of a couple trains to CLT; I see no reason for it to be any more grand than Raleigh Union Station.

Not trying to be a downer, just don't want to get disappointed.

Yes, I totally get that, but if it does come to be as good as it seems to be looking in the renderings and information we have it should attract a lot of people when it’s completed. So many people travel between Raleigh and Charlotte all of the time and maybe people who would take a train would rather not take it because, let’s be completely honest, the current station is isolated, crowded, and just outright under equipped of the little people it does service. No one will take a train if they have to deal with that mess of a station. Either way it’ll be an upgrade from what we currently have. But of course hopefully it’s something very exciting and something that can become a landmark for Charlotte and the district as well becoming less of an area around the station and a destination that links the rest of the third and fourth ward to their eastern halves. 

[15895]

23 hours ago, JeanClt said:

Yes, I totally get that, but if it does come to be as good as it seems to be looking in the renderings and information we have it should attract a lot of people when it’s completed. So many people travel between Raleigh and Charlotte all of the time and maybe people who would take a train would rather not take it because, let’s be completely honest, the current station is isolated, crowded, and just outright under equipped of the little people it does service. No one will take a train if they have to deal with that mess of a station. Either way it’ll be an upgrade from what we currently have. But of course hopefully it’s something very exciting and something that can become a landmark for Charlotte and the district as well becoming less of an area around the station and a destination that links the rest of the third and fourth ward to their eastern halves. 

 

I don't know much about the railroad industry, but I know some of you do. Could the trains that stay in NC not be scheduled to act as a commuter rail during while not running between Charlotte and Raleigh?

 

As in a Train in the morning could obviously just go to Raleigh, but another train act as a commuter rail (frequencies at like. 7AM, 8AM, 10 AM) and then head for Raleigh at like. 11AM or 12PM or something?

 

I don't know if the tracks even go to anywhere worthy of a commuter line or whether whoever owns the tracks would allow that many trains but. Just wondering

[kermit]

52 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

I don't know much about the railroad industry, but I know some of you do. Could the trains that stay in NC not be scheduled to act as a commuter rail during while not running between Charlotte and Raleigh?

 

As in a Train in the morning could obviously just go to Raleigh, but another train act as a commuter rail (frequencies at like. 7AM, 8AM, 10 AM) and then head for Raleigh at like. 11AM or 12PM or something?

 

I don't know if the tracks even go to anywhere worthy of a commuter line or whether whoever owns the tracks would allow that many trains but. Just wondering

Commuter rail on the NCRR tracks between Charlotte and Raleigh makes sense in several places based on current auto commuting patterns and the availability of state-owned infrastructure with extra capacity.

• Charlotte to Salisbury (with new stops at Sugar Creek, Harrisburg / UNCC, Concord, I-85 and Landis
• Greensboro to Lexington and Burlington
• Raleigh to Mebane (via Durham) and out east into Johnston county (Clayton and Selma)

While the state already owns the tracks and stations, commuter rail would have some costs (hundreds of millions)  for new stations, rolling stock and track work, particularly east of Greensboro. Some of this will be paid for by transit agencies in the Triangle from their transit sales tax.

You have probably already noticed that the gaps in the three commuter systems listed above are very small (Salisbury to Lexington is 16 miles and Burlington to Mebane is 9 miles. Given these tiny gaps, and the inefficiency of operating three different commuter rail systems (three service yards, three CEOs, etc) the state (and the NCRR) should step up and provide continuous commuter rail service on the NCRR. Ideally this would be trains every 15 minutes at peak, 30-45 minutes off peak, with fare integration with all the local transit providers along the route (some trains would need to run “express”) As a side benefit, the system would encourage commuting between the urban centers which would eventually stitch our cities together into a single CSA — making NC much more visible to global capital and skilled workers. (And Reduced carbon outputs, and more affordable housing, and avoiding congestion and...)

I will admit, this would be an unusually long distance for commuter service.

The current Piedmont trains are not well suited for ‘fill in’ commuter service during their layovers. The normal schedule only has trains sit in Charlotte for around 2 hours. Between the schedule padding they need to insure on time departure cleaning time there are not many spare minutes that the train could be put to work on a consistent schedule. And the very low frequency of this service would not appeal to riders. More ‘commuterish’ trains (meaning less upholstery and fewer bathrooms) require less cleaning, and if the next one is just 15 minutes behind the first then schedule issues are less problematic so the “long-commute“ service could work.

Edited June 15, 2020 by kermit

[Rufus]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

I will admit, this would be an unusually long distance for commuter service.

I'd say it isn't. One look at Caltrain, MetroLink, and event the three big commuter rail programs in NYC show that this is the right scope. I think the big issue is validating that scale compared to our population. All of those aforementioned lines serve 10mil people, whereas this would serve maybe 7mil. Justifying that might be hard considering the cost. But the precedent remains, and I think the timing is right. 

[jthomas]

1 hour ago, Rufus said:

I'd say it isn't. One look at Caltrain, MetroLink, and event the three big commuter rail programs in NYC show that this is the right scope. I think the big issue is validating that scale compared to our population. All of those aforementioned lines serve 10mil people, whereas this would serve maybe 7mil. Justifying that might be hard considering the cost. But the precedent remains, and I think the timing is right. 

I agree that the time is now to start planning, and that the state should be thinking big with the rail asset that it already owns. I-40/85 is already always busy, and IMO has become significantly less pleasant to travel in the past 10 years. Other than widening the two roads from 4 to 6 lanes in Orange County, I think these highways have already been expanded to what should be their finished state for the next 50 years. Any additional capacity needed (and demand is only going to continue to grow) should be added to the parallel railroad instead. I'm sure it would take multiple billions to further widen I-40/85 between Charlotte and Raleigh. If that level of investment was instead put into the NCRR, we could likely have an electrified, fully multi-tracked railroad capable of high levels of intercity and regional service, moving more people faster than the highway ever could. Oh, and this alternative would also be better for the environment and would likely stimulate massive investment in the central areas of every city along the line. 

[Blue_Devil]

I mean if the trends being seen hold, Charlotte is about to explode in pop density. I know there are a lot of rumors, but it seems people really are moving out of NYC and Chicago, and Charlotte is reaping a lot of that influx. If the rumored companies follow, we are going to need a multimodal station Like this with Amtrak, light rail, commuter rail, and bus. Or else we are going to quickly outpace our highway growth. 

[GuiTarHeel]

Long time lurker here... anyone know how many more upgrades are in the works in the short term for the Raleigh to Charlotte rail corridor (grade separations, double tracking, etc.)? Seems like a lot of the major projects in the Triangle area are mostly done now. I know there are long term plans for the SEHSR project, but is it anticipated that the travel time by train from Raleigh to Charlotte will have been reduced significantly by the time gateway station is open? I’ve looked for info on this but everything I’ve found is really out of date.