Jump to content

dubone

Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

Recommended Posts

29 minutes ago, carolina1792 said:

Yep, the Piedmont Improvement Program benefitted the Greensboro to Charlotte rail line more. Triangle always gets the raw end of the deal when it comes to these things. 

Yea, kinda. The lack of double track funds for the NCRR east of Gboro was not a political decision, it was due to the light freight traffic east of Greensboro.   But, if the state ever wants to see useful commuter rail in the Triangle and Greensboro areas (and they SHOULD) then everything between Gboro and Raleigh needs double track -- plus station sidings for high platforms.

Its still 30 years away, but I would not be surprised if NS has already started to make noise about not renewing their NCRR lease for any tracks east of Greensboro. I don't believe a partial lease has ever come before up for the NCRR and I wonder how much hardball the NCRR would be able or willing to play with NS. Unfortunately, its unlikely that any other Class 1 would want the lease, and its also very unlikely that NCRR / NCDOT want to pay for the line's maintenance. If NCDOT can show strong demand for pax service, I could imagine a Brightline style company leasing the NCRR (and selling freight rights on the side). 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


4 hours ago, kermit said:

Yea, kinda. The lack of double track funds for the NCRR east of Gboro was not a political decision, it was due to the light freight traffic east of Greensboro.   But, if the state ever wants to see useful commuter rail in the Triangle and Greensboro areas (and they SHOULD) then everything between Gboro and Raleigh needs double track -- plus station sidings for high platforms.

Its still 30 years away, but I would not be surprised if NS has already started to make noise about not renewing their NCRR lease for any tracks east of Greensboro. I don't believe a partial lease has ever come before up for the NCRR and I wonder how much hardball the NCRR would be able or willing to play with NS. Unfortunately, its unlikely that any other Class 1 would want the lease, and its also very unlikely that NCRR / NCDOT want to pay for the line's maintenance. If NCDOT can show strong demand for pax service, I could imagine a Brightline style company leasing the NCRR (and selling freight rights on the side). 

 

I believe the CAMPO's effort for commuter rail is designed with zero assistance from the state due to the NCGA's efforts to kill any state assistance. It's all local and federal money.  I'm sure the NCGA will take credit once it's built. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/21/2020 at 9:11 PM, carolina1792 said:

I believe the CAMPO's effort for commuter rail is designed with zero assistance from the state due to the NCGA's efforts to kill any state assistance. It's all local and federal money.  I'm sure the NCGA will take credit once it's built. 

CAMPO is useless.  It had a chance to support commuter rail but dropped the ball in the early 2000s.  We were working with NCRR, NS, and the state for commuter rail from Wilson to Raleigh to Goldsboro.  NS was even interested in the option to operate the passenger service.  CAMPO, and TTA killed it.  CAMPO just sucks money from rural areas because it hasn't figured out that development follows transportation and Raleigh, Cary, and the rest of Wake County can't keep their heads out of the asses of developers and planners can't design a square box much less know anything about urban design.  Sorry, have not been a fan of the CAMPO team since working for the City of Raleigh in the 1990s when it was essentially a two-person operation driving sprawl.  Bitter, table for one.

Edited by Phillydog
  • Like 4
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Phillydog said:

CAMPO is useless.  It had a chance to support commuter rail but dropped the ball in the early 2000s.  We were working with NCRR, NS, and the state for commuter rail from Wilson to Raleigh to Goldsboro.  NS was even interested in the option to operate the passenger service.  CAMPO, and TTA killed it.  CAMPO just sucks money from rural areas because it hasn't figured out that development follows transportation and Raleigh, Cary, and the rest of Wake County can't keep their heads out of the asses of developers and planners can't design a square box much less know anything about urban design.  Sorry, have not been a fan of the CAMPO team since working for the City of Raleigh in the 1990s when it was essentially a two-person operation driving sprawl.  Bitter, table for one.

Let me just say I have colleagues who have left CAMPO prior and I understand 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, CLTranspo said:

Let me just say I have colleagues who have left CAMPO prior and I understand 

It's sad.  Very sad.  Especially when you compare to Charlotte MPO, which is light years ahead in terms of thinking and action.  Cheers!

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

is this correct Nashville with all those rail lines converging on the city has no Amtrak service?  that is crazy.  I would have thought they would have service to Chicago and Atlanta already.  

I do wish Charlotte had service straight south maybe connect in Savannah then on to Florida.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

THIS

14 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I do wish Charlotte had service straight south maybe connect in Savannah then on to Florida.  

and THIS

14 hours ago, kermit said:

Amtrak has considered changing the route of the Silver Star (train between NYC and Miami), to run from Raleigh to Charlotte before it turns south towards Columbia and points beyond -- this would give us a daily connection to Columbia and Savannah on to Florida as well as another train connecting us to Raleigh. I suspect that Amtrak will reconsider this route change via Charlotte when the S-Line and Gateway station opens. It is also possible that CSX may downgrade or sell the tracks the Star currently runs on South of Cary (these tracks are also part of the S (Seaboard)-Line). A Charlotte reroute would certainly increase ridership, but this would require a new station in Columbia (not easy).

Three trains a day (two plus the Star) between Charlotte and Columbia would be a VERY useful addition to our route network, alas South Carolina has gotta be South Carolina...

A route straight from Charlotte to Columbia would be so comparatively easy, I mean, it's a straight shot--literally, if you go along I 77--and most of that land is still arable and not developed, so cost, if needed, of any right of way acquisition would be minimal (comparatively). 

Charlotte and and its metropolitan area leaders need to lean hard on South Carolina leadership and get them to really understand that what's good for Charlotte is good for upper South Carolina, and having Charlotte and Columbia connected by a--what?--45 minute?--express train ride would be win-win-win. 

Wouldn't it be possible for those same tracks to be utilized for commuter rail during rush hours? People could easily live as far south as Chester County and travel up to Charlotte if the train only made stops during rush hour, say, in Chester, Rock Hill, *maybe* one other around Fort Mill/Pineville and then into Gateway...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, ertley said:

THIS

and THIS

A route straight from Charlotte to Columbia would be so comparatively easy, I mean, it's a straight shot--literally, if you go along I 77--and most of that land is still arable and not developed, so cost, if needed, of any right of way acquisition would be minimal (comparatively). 

Charlotte and and its metropolitan area leaders need to lean hard on South Carolina leadership and get them to really understand that what's good for Charlotte is good for upper South Carolina, and having Charlotte and Columbia connected by a--what?--45 minute?--express train ride would be win-win-win. 

Wouldn't it be possible for those same tracks to be utilized for commuter rail during rush hours? People could easily live as far south as Chester County and travel up to Charlotte if the train only made stops during rush hour, say, in Chester, Rock Hill, *maybe* one other around Fort Mill/Pineville and then into Gateway...

The route being considered is on the existing NS tracks which run from the airport, down along the Blue Line to Fort Mill and Rock Hill. Nobody is discussing new build HSR here. The big problem with the route is that it serves as an important connection for the new intermodal yard and NS does not want it to be gummed up. NS issues aside, the route would make for fine commuter service to Rock Hill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know at least one York County Councilman believes that the NS line is a non-starter, and would prefer a blue line extension to Rock Hill despite the much higher cost and what would be an excessively long commute from Rock Hill to uptown.  He also seemed annoyed that one of his more progressive friends poo-pooed a blue line extension, and noted that the heavily GOP leaning council would need some convincing to attempt a multi-billion light rail project.  They might still have an outside chance depending on how the November council election turns out, but I think YCC is shifting further to the right even as the spillover effects from Charlotte are making the residents shift slightly more progressive. At the very least, it sounded like they were  going to order another YC to Charlotte transit study after the last one became stale, but with the way the primary shook out, I think that may be in doubt.

All that being said, a light rail extension would really help YC create more density in pockets, even if it’s not that useful or efficient for commuting to Charlotte.  A commuter train with fewer stops would be better for commuting and cheaper if NS plays along, and a continuous route from Mooresville to Rock Hill through Gateway, possibly with an airport stop, would add a lot of connectivity in the extended metro. 

If it’s true that Charlotte could benefit from even a small shift in preferences away from the highest density cities, we’re going to need to start moving people a heck of a lot more efficiently. 

Edited by RugbyPike#11
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 10/3/2020 at 9:30 AM, Matthew.Brendan said:

MetroNorth trains leaving Grand Central Terminal on the Harlem line travel as far north as 90 miles to Wasaic NY. The New Haven line also leaving GCT arrives Waterbury CT at nearly the same distance.

Atlanta has built it's mini-opolis devoted entirely around the automobile despite having heavy rail for decades. Yes, MARTA is better these days. Sort of? The city is at least supporting some development around the stations now.

Charlotte can absolutely be the 21st century South-East capital if they build it with smart modern trains. Do a 40 or 60 mile sweep and see what comes into view.

I agree.  Why not enhance  CLT as the leisure and travel hub.  Meaning, utilize commuter rail as a gateway travel to the mountains and beaches within reason.  How far are the foothill towns in the Blue Ridge?  I think it would be a win-win.  Whatever town is the western terminus for the blue ridge express from CLT would gain economy from tourist connecting from there and Gateway station can capilize on the constant use.  On the flip side, commuter rail to the southeast could be huge as well.  In addition to north thru the metro all the way up the fringes of the Triad. I often think of thses things when taking short plane rides.  Like from OKC to Dallas.  How much easier it would be to jump on a regional train for 2 hours than to go thru all the crap of an airport for a 45 minute flight.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

Is there a render of what the first phase is supposed to look like? 

Page 54 and following of this document has the best rendering I've found.  Though I don't know how out of date this is since it's from 2017.

https://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/charlotte-gateway-station/Documents/CGS MSAP - Final Report.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/15/2020 at 12:51 PM, Blue_Devil said:

Is there a render of what the first phase is supposed to look like? 

The developer for the Gateway District was just selected in June. I believe the only developer requirements from the city are for ‘a station’ to be built -- the design is up to the developer. So I would not expect any renderings of the station until we hear about the Gateway District site plans. I think a couple of UPers have seen the sketch plans for the district and they were VERY impressed, but AFAIK the plans are still top secret.

IF I remember the stage 1 contruction plans correctly then I think we will see the platform and the fancy suspended platform canopy appear in the next couple of months.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/06/04/developer-finally-on-board-for-gateway-station.html

 

 

Edited by kermit
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.