Charlotte Gateway Station and Railroad Improvements

[CLT Development]

21 hours ago, tozmervo said:

There's a pretty significant amount of land for this project. 

Its 3.2M square feet spread between these sites.

On 10/10/2022 at 11:02 AM, RANYC said:

I’d guess not even close to accurate.  City was supposed to be presented with a master dev agreement for its portion of gateway phase 2 in fall 2021, and I don’t believe anything has happened.  In previous reporting on gateway, it’s been said the city has responsibility for a public plaza, parking, and a bus facility.  Safe to say a 3 year old rendering on a public-private partnership might as well be toilet paper.

Actually the master development agreement is signed, and I have rendering  updates as early as December 2021. The rendering I posted above is not old. Please note that if I didn't have the up to date information I would not be putting it on here. 

[RANYC]

25 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

Its 3.2M square feet spread between these sites.

Actually the master development agreement is signed, and I have rendering  updates as early as December 2021. The rendering I posted above is not old. Please note that if I didn't have the up to date information I would not be putting it on here. 

I trusted you to post the latest renderings in your possession, which were from 2019.  Wasn't sure whether office-heavy plans from a pre-covid world might have fallen victim to real estate trends, significant changes in priority and design and some value engineering, but if you're saying they're still representationally faithful, then great!  Thanks for sharing.  Here's to seeing this get out of the ground this decade.

Edited October 11, 2022 by RANYC

[Reverie39]

A minor but nice aspect of these towers is that they will stretch the skyline NW a little. Right now it's starting to look sort of NE-SE linear, like Atlanta's, especially when factoring in South End. Having the high density look more like a square than a rectangle is good for walkability and also just looks better imo. The Vue will also start to look less lonely, lol.

[CLT Development]

22 hours ago, RANYC said:

I trusted you to post the latest renderings in your possession, which were from 2019.  Wasn't sure whether office-heavy plans from a pre-covid world might have fallen victim to real estate trends, significant changes in priority and design and some value engineering, but if you're saying they're still representationally faithful, then great!  Thanks for sharing.  Here's to seeing this get out of the ground this decade.

The rendering above is not from 2019, the screen shot of the station plan I posted a page or two back is. The rendering I posted has been used by the developer in the past year and is current.

[DamicoKaren]

On 10/12/2022 at 4:30 PM, CLT Development said:

The rendering above is not from 2019, the screen shot of the station plan I posted a page or two back is. The rendering I posted has been used by the developer in the past year and is current.

 

On 10/11/2022 at 5:44 PM, CLT Development said:

Its 3.2M square feet spread between these sites.

Actually the master development agreement is signed, and I have rendering  updates as early as December 2021. The rendering I posted above is not old. Please note that if I didn't have the up to date information I would not be putting it on here. 

Where is 500 W Trade? Is that included in the highlighted area? 

[Poo Diddy]

1 hour ago, DamicoKaren said:

 

Where is 500 W Trade? Is that included in the highlighted area? 

It's the white roofed building North of N Graham St, and to the left of Crave Dessert Bar (W 5th St).  There's a road to the North side of 500 West Trade Apt's that separates it from the highlighted area.  (Note my cardinal directions are based on the layout of that screenshot, not true North)

[Desert Power]

Any thoughts on this?

 

[kermit]

22 minutes ago, Desert Power said:

Any thoughts on this?

 

Seems kinda inefficient to store Silver Line equipment on another line. Not only does this require extra time in the morning and evenings to relocate vehicles but it would also require shutting down both lines when maintenance happens on the Blue Line [I don't think any work was done on the Gold Line last weekend, but it was shutdown anyway because the vehicles are stored on the Blue Line.] On the other hand, this land is awfully underutilized now, its only used for low intensity scrap metal loading.

Airport land (or adjacent to airport land, the city owns a ton) presents a perfect opportunity for Silver Line vehicle storage which avoids these problems.

Edited October 21, 2022 by kermit

[southslider]

3-car trains on just the Blue Line likely makes this existing yard's expansion necessary. Gold Line also needs more cars for better frequencies. The site is landlocked between LYNX and NCRR,  hindering any TOD.  A large new park is already planned just north of here.

[Matthew.Brendan]

This RR yard will never (in our lifetimes) be moved. Forget about capping 277 and get the ball rolling on capping the rail yard instead.

Restored connectivity, parks, office, residential.

 

[tozmervo]

12 hours ago, kermit said:

Seems kinda inefficient to store Silver Line equipment on another line. Not only does this require extra time in the morning and evenings to relocate vehicles but it would also require shutting down both lines when maintenance happens on the Blue Line [I don't think any work was done on the Gold Line last weekend, but it was shutdown anyway because the vehicles are stored on the Blue Line.] On the other hand, this land is awfully underutilized now, its only used for low intensity scrap metal loading.

It's so close to the proposed Silver line route, I wonder if it would be feasible to add a dedicated third track going from the yard directly to the silver line so they can keep the two lines more or less independent. 

[Reverie39]

13 hours ago, Desert Power said:

Any thoughts on this?

 

Does an action like this mean that we are 100% certain the Silver Line will happen? As far as I was aware there were still some votes and important hurdles to get over before anything became a true certainty.

[kermit]

5 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

Does an action like this mean that we are 100% certain the Silver Line will happen? As far as I was aware there were still some votes and important hurdles to get over before anything became a true certainty.

No. No transit project is certain until the Full Funding Grant agreement is signed by the Feds (and even then). In order for that to happen the line needs to reach 60% engineering completed (IIRC) and have the local match money in hand.

Charlotte has a route selected (but no one is sure about it) and a small portion of the engineering done. But all of this effort could just sit on a shelf until the end of time. I would not be draining my 401k to bet on the Silver Line just yet. 

[kayman]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

No. No transit project is certain until the Full Funding Grant agreement is signed by the Feds (and even then). In order for that to happen the line needs to reach 60% engineering completed (IIRC) and have the local match money in hand.

Charlotte has a route selected (but no one is sure about it) and a small portion of the engineering done. But all of this effort could just sit on a shelf until the end of time. I would not be draining my 401k to bet on the Silver Line just yet. 

The embolden is correct 

[Desert Power]

On 10/21/2022 at 7:56 AM, Matthew.Brendan said:

This RR yard will never (in our lifetimes) be moved. Forget about capping 277 and get the ball rolling on capping the rail yard instead.

Restored connectivity, parks, office, residential.

 

I agree. I support the city getting this land, but wish it was for this instead. I don't put very high odds on the Silver line ever happening though.

[XRZ.ME]

Does an action like this mean that we are 100% certain the Silver Line will happen? As far as I was aware there were still some votes and important hurdles to get over before anything became a true certainty.

Increase frequency on blue line will probably need more storage and maintance space anyway.


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[DavieNative]

I think the silver line will happen, Charlotte may be slow but it has never stopped a rail mass tranist project that needs to  happen.  NS is the problem with the Red Line, I think the silver will pass easily once they get the route nailed down.

[tozmervo]

Agreed, I think the Silver line will happen. It's easy to get impatient about it, but most of us don't have the benefit of having been around for the 20 years of talk and debate before the original blue line opened in 2007, and the blue line route didn't have nearly as many complications.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

I really wish construction would get started on the station Uptown.  It would make a huge difference for riders from Raleigh -Durham to be able to arrive in Charlotte and not have get a cab or Uber.  City center to city center.  Why is this so complicated!?

[15895]

47 minutes ago, Phillydog said:

I really wish construction would get started on the station Uptown.  It would make a huge difference for riders from Raleigh -Durham to be able to arrive in Charlotte and not have get a cab or Uber.  City center to city center.  Why is this so complicated!?

I thought this was imminent, ready to break ground with Hines like 10  years ago lol https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2012/11/hines-ready-to-roll-on-charlotte.html (I know Hines backed out a while ago and new plans selected, etc. etc.)

It seems to always be around the corner. Haven't they already started if not getting close to completion on platforms or something for an uptown station? I'm starting to get too out of the loop of CLT dev after so many years of being away (despite being on here all the time, it's harder to keep up with when not actually living there)

Edited October 25, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[CLT Development]

4 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I thought this was imminent, ready to break ground with Hines like 10  years ago lol https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2012/11/hines-ready-to-roll-on-charlotte.html (I know Hines backed out a while ago and new plans selected, etc. etc.)

It seems to always be around the corner. Haven't they already started if not getting close to completion on platforms or something for an uptown station? I'm starting to get too out of the loop of CLT dev after so many years of being away (despite being on here all the time, it's harder to keep up with when not actually living there)

Hines fell through because they hadn't actually secured all the land that they offered to Hines.

[Seaboard Fellow]

Phase 1 track and platform work is 100% complete minus clean up. 

[KJHburg]

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2022/NC-By-Train-Ridership-Breaks-Record-for-Second-Consecutive-Month.aspx?

from the NC DOT on ridership 

[JRCLT]

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2022/NC-By-Train-Ridership-Breaks-Record-for-Second-Consecutive-Month.aspx?
from the NC DOT on ridership 

We need Gateway Station to hurry along and get started!!

[Reverie39]

On 11/9/2022 at 7:30 PM, KJHburg said:

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2022/NC-By-Train-Ridership-Breaks-Record-for-Second-Consecutive-Month.aspx?

from the NC DOT on ridership 

Fantastic news. We've talked about it here before, but the Piedmont line is a pretty unique and wonderful gem we have here in NC. I'd love to see it get used more and eventually justify higher frequencies as it becomes part of the state travel culture.

Raleigh finishing Union Station and now working on some impressive surrounding developments such as RUSBUS is huge for the Piedmont line. Charlotte finishing Gateway will be equally huge. Once that happens we will have a region rail line directly linking the two most impressive urban cores in the state. I feel like ridership might really explode then as no one will be reaching one end of their journey and then sit figuring out how to get around from the station (ahem... Charlotte). I think tons of people would take the trip from downtown to down(Up)town for a variety of reasons. Besides, who wants to sit on ever-increasing I-85 traffic across the whole state?

Also, I maintain that NC by Train needs more advertising than just occasional signs on the highway. I bet the majority of North Carolinians don't even know about the full extent of what is offered and just drive automatically. 

Carrying 55,000 passengers in a single month despite that is very impressive. I checked and for reference, the Piedmont and Carolinian combined for 458,000 passengers in 2019, an average of 38,000 a month. Those are some serious gains.