May Town Center

[Shuzilla]

i hadn't heard a figure yet but $50 million for the bridge to nowhere doesn't surprise me. imagine what kind of activity the city could stimulate inside the core with just half of that kind of investment in infrastructure. to think that the city would speculate with that kind of money on such a speculative project is really hard to fathom.

TG said $50 million to $80 million. Just say that out loud... $80 million.

Having said that, didn't downtown just get a bridge to almost nowhere, the Gateway bridge? What did that cost, $25 million? I'd buy the first bridge to the bend before the sixth into downtown. Yeah, it will help future SoBro development, but right now there doesn't even seem to be a concrete concept of how or where Koeran Vets Boulevard terminates.

And, as we all know, downtown just got a new convention center approved. Though not likely to pay for itself out of operations, it will hopefully boost tourist economy downtown enough to be a net positive cash flow for the city. But, like the proposed bridge to MTC, is pure speculation, but to the tune of $600 million.

Say that out loud. $600 million. And change. A CC to nowhere?

So, Neptune, why should the May familiy and the rest of Nashville wait for the owner of PCS Metals to decide to redevelop that site, have plans drawn up, get it approved AND get reqisite city funds in order to then have the city help out in Bells Bend? What's this pecking order for taxpayer funding you've come up with that suggests prioritizing yet-unannounced downtown projects over serious proposals outside of the CBD? Shouldn't the Johnny-come-latelys get in line and wait their turn, once they get their crap together? 450 developed acres at MTC is the current discussion, not PCS Metals. Not the fairgrounds. This bridge will be funded and constructed long before any serious move to redevelop either of those sites, and with a future expanded tax base (should MTC flesh out) and a current economic downturn they may be better off for having come along later than earlier.

An argument between the suburbs and downtown over who gets the lesser tax dollar investment is just going to get really boring really fast. It's suburban Nashville's turn with Bell's Bend and the Bellevue Mall. Downtown has had some nice stuff done lately, places we can be proud of, like the Sommet and the library and public square at the couthouse and bicentennial mall...

I posted some statistics on growth in Nashville/Davidson earlier and compared growth to the entire metro statistical area. There will be opportunities for growth all around, but recent history shows the surrounding counties are outpacing Nashville. It's not a given that $50 million spent on a Bells Bend Bridge will come at the expense of downtown projects. However, if growth continues to favor the out-of-Nashville exurbs, it's much more likely that downtown will have a to struggle even harder for a piece what little growth remains inside Davidson County.

[johnmott59]

Building a "new Cool Springs" with only one point of access is just plain stupid. Look at the traffic nightmare in Cool Springs now with multiple access points. Hopefully this is DOA and this area can remain undeveloped.

Hi all,

Full disclosure, I live in 37205 about 2 miles from the Costco. First, I'm not 'agin' development or developers, and I recognize that no place escapes change forever. This is a very important part of the city, and if it is time, it should be integrated into the areas west and north in a way that makes sense for all of Davidson county. Developers are, by definition, limited in scope in the way that they plan, and the current design really looks to the be the private office for us 37205 residents.

A quick glance at a map shows that extending Old Hickory from I-40 across the river would integrate Bellevue as well as us. A further view from 30,000 feet reveals to me that this development should connect to Briley Parkway -- a road whose reason for being is to allow access to North Davidson county to promote development and to connect I-65 North to the area. Anyone travelled recently on the Briley Parkway/I-65 interchange or Briley Parkway/I40 interchange? Hundreds of millions of dollars were spent to make sure that that Briley Parkway was integrated into the Interstate system. A connector from Old Hickory through Bell's Bend to Briley Parkway would create another bypass for downtown (good for traffic) and make access to Bell's bend available from multiple directions, including Bellevue, Ashland city, Madison, Goodlettseville, as well as those of us across the river. Then an office park makes sense, as would residential etc.

In my view thats the right way to integrate Bell's Bend -- not piecemeal with what is functionally one large quasi-gated (by virtue of one entrance) community. A single access point is asking for trouble and planning for failure.

Thanks,

john

[ATLBrain]

I think there is a lot of fear that new roads will bring the type of commercial development found on Murfreesboro Rd., and other thoroughfares around Nashville (e.g. Cumberland Pkwy in Atlanta), etc.. That danger exists without lots of good zoning in place. So I think the focus of residents in that area should be a push for the highest quality of materials and limited convenience service centers like fast foods and gas stations, etc. They should be restricted to certain locations only. There are office centers like this not far from some of the best residential areas of large cities around the country... wealthy areas less than a mile from Interstate type roads. Bethesda, MD, and Madeira outside of Cincinnati are just a couple that come to mind. If you drive through those areas on the expressway, you have almost no clue that there's civilization around you.

[Dawn]

I think there is a lot of fear that new roads will bring the type of commercial development found on Murfreesboro Rd., and other thoroughfares around Nashville (e.g. Cumberland Pkwy in Atlanta), etc.. That danger exists without lots of good zoning in place. So I think the focus of residents in that area should be a push for the highest quality of materials and limited convenience service centers like fast foods and gas stations, etc. They should be restricted to certain locations only. There are office centers like this not far from some of the best residential areas of large cities around the country... wealthy areas less than a mile from Interstate type roads. Bethesda, MD, and Madeira outside of Cincinnati are just a couple that come to mind. If you drive through those areas on the expressway, you have almost no clue that there's civilization around you.

No, I think the concerns lie more in the idea that at least 40 homes (according to neighborhood association via councilman & developer) will be lost and that a stable (over 50 years) middle class neighborhood will suddenly be divided in half by an unnecessary additional interstate spur and bridge mentioned in the proposed plan when there are other viable bridge and interstate access locations...some already in existence. Did I mention that the bridge will have to be "in the sky" above neighbors heads (as well as in their backyards - not a mile or two away) because it must be tall enough to span the Cumberland River...a major outlet for commercial barge traffic? If you notice from some of the goggle pictures, the part of the bend most frequently mentioned is actually one of the bend's most narrow points - good for the developer but bad for everyone else. Barges already have a hard time navigating the turn. I believe there are also severe environmental impact concerns for this pristine natural wildlife habitat and wetland which serves as home for whooping cranes, bald eagles and other equally important wildlife. Even more concerns are being raised about the Native American burial grounds, civil war and slave graves in the area. For the residents of Bell's Bend, Scottsboro, Charlotte Park and Beacon Square, "almost no clue" just isn't good enough to surrender their quality of life and wealth of irreplaceable natural resources when there are other viable alternatives.

[ATLBrain]

Good luck. You are after all in a county of more than 600K people. Seems like a hard case to fight. Don't blame you for fighting, but development will come someday.

[Dawn]

Good luck. You are after all in a county of more than 600K people. Seems like a hard case to fight. Don't blame you for fighting, but development will come someday.

Thanks! I'm sure all the folks "fighting the good fight" appreciate your good wishes. From all that I have heard, I believe that folks know that "development will come someday" but I think the larger question is in what form that development should take. Personally, I believe Nashville truely has an opportunity to "step up" to being a 21st century thinking place by taking more time to study what some have called "New Ruralism". After attending the Visioning Sessions sponsored by Metro Planning, listening to some very creative ideas voiced by local residents and reading the conclusions presented in their Draft Concept Plan so far their ideas seem to fit much more into this school of thought.

Don't misunderstand, as someone with a background in engineering, I do like tall shiney buildings and lots of concrete in an appropriate setting. Heck, it's even more fun to breathe new life into a blighted area but that is just not the case here. I also understand the importance of preserving those things that can't be built of concrete and steel and can never be replaced .

[Shuzilla]

No, I think the concerns lie more in the idea that at least 40 homes (according to neighborhood association via councilman & developer) will be lost...

So, much of the concern stems for a wholy unsubstantiated yet quite tasty rumor. Nice.

Or, would someone please post images of the bridge plans, if they even exist? Given there's so much detail discussed here with such certainty, they must be circulating quite freely. I'm genuinely curious.

I can't see the need for more than two homes to be taken for the bridge and a "McEwen-type interchange", which is not a clover leaf but straight ramp runs paralleling the interstate. The southbound off ramp would definitely take out the nice old bungalow on the corner of Annex and Thunderbird, and maybe some other homes on T-bird would lose back yard to an expanded ROW if the existing is insufficiently narrow.

Extending Annex from the north into a tee with the extended Old Hickory Boulevard would take the house on the corner of Cleeses Ferry and Annex. There looks to be sufficient length through that corner lot to achieve elevation.

To preserve the most homes, the road out to the bend needs to veer south into the trees and away from the east-west section of Annex. (There are no homes on the south side of Annex for some distance of the interchange.) The eastern four or five homes might have to connect to the new road, but otherwise existing Annex would simply dead end at her east terminus, and none of those properties are affected.

Thunderbird and Cabot would have to join and bridge over Annex/OHB because the existing (goofy) four-way is too close to the interchange. The corner of Marauder and Thunderbird is about 20 feet above Annex, so it's do-able. A connector through the trees from Cabot could then lead to a new intersection with Annex/OHB about 800 feet beyond the new interchange, giving ample space between.

BTW, the houses in the area of the bridge are generally 30 feet above the river. It's the bend side that needs to be built up the most. Does anyone know how much higher a bridge would have to go to clear river traffic?

[Connect the Dots]

Anyone see the editorial from The Tennessean last Saturday? Doesn't seem to be much discussion on it... interested to hear some thoughts.

Here's the Tennessean's view: http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...ION01/802230337

An editorial from Tony G: http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../802230340/1008

An editorial from a Scottsboro resident Brenda Butka: http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...ION01/802230334

Editorial from Lonnell Matthews, councilman for the Bell's Bend district: http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../802230338/1008

[smeagolsfree]

To suggest that the area be used for organic farming may be a little ludicrous as the May family will determine what will happen with their property. I find that argument lacking to the extreme. With the price of gas rising the project makes more since to be close in rather than on the fringes.

Another point someone made was that it would be the same old restaurants and shops. I think they may be missing the point of the type of development this is. This is not Cool Springs or any thing that has been built int he state before. This is more like a self sustained city.

I do agree that the project will have a tough go of it, if only relying on one access to the development.

That property will be developed at some point in time, whether it is now or 50 years when the children of all these surrounding property owners decide they want to make money and sell it. Its all about controlled growth or uncontrolled growth.

[ATLBrain]

Anyone see the editorial from The Tennessean last Saturday? Doesn't seem to be much discussion on it... interested to hear some thoughts.

What is "it"? The bridge, or the whole project? Or what?

[smeagolsfree]

What is "it"? The bridge, or the whole project? Or what?

I think It may be the entire project. Thats how I read "it".

Or in the words of Bill Clinton. "Could You define, it" ..... just kidding guys

[Connect the Dots]

I think It may be the entire project. Thats how I read "it".

Or in the words of Bill Clinton. "Could You define, it" ..... just kidding guys

sorry, by "it" I meant The Tennessean's thoughts on the development and the other three editorials.

[wrdbrn]

I saw that a new THREAD had been started. Wanted to make sure that it was included in the MAYTOWN thread. The project was SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED! Thank you to the NEW YORK TIMES for keeping the importance of protecting the land that sustains all front and center!

Here is the link to the article (permalink from the NYTimes... comes with a brief advertisement)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/us/01cra...xprod=permalink

[grapa]

Is it safe to say this place would become known as "Maytown"?

Other points of interest with the MTC is nearness to John Tune airport, possibly hinting bridge access could be made from Briley Parkway. They also hint at closing thu traffic on OHB from highway 12 to AC. It was mentioned about buffer zones to block intruding on neighborhood.

[wrdbrn]

Wow - where did the cut and paste come from?

So, much of the concern stems for a wholy unsubstantiated yet quite tasty rumor. Nice.

Or, would someone please post images of the bridge plans, if they even exist? Given there's so much detail discussed here with such certainty, they must be circulating quite freely. I'm genuinely curious.

I can't see the need for more than two homes to be taken for the bridge and a "McEwen-type interchange", which is not a clover leaf but straight ramp runs paralleling the interstate. The southbound off ramp would definitely take out the nice old bungalow on the corner of Annex and Thunderbird, and maybe some other homes on T-bird would lose back yard to an expanded ROW if the existing is insufficiently narrow.

Extending Annex from the north into a tee with the extended Old Hickory Boulevard would take the house on the corner of Cleeses Ferry and Annex. There looks to be sufficient length through that corner lot to achieve elevation.

To preserve the most homes, the road out to the bend needs to veer south into the trees and away from the east-west section of Annex. (There are no homes on the south side of Annex for some distance of the interchange.) The eastern four or five homes might have to connect to the new road, but otherwise existing Annex would simply dead end at her east terminus, and none of those properties are affected.

Thunderbird and Cabot would have to join and bridge over Annex/OHB because the existing (goofy) four-way is too close to the interchange. The corner of Marauder and Thunderbird is about 20 feet above Annex, so it's do-able. A connector through the trees from Cabot could then lead to a new intersection with Annex/OHB about 800 feet beyond the new interchange, giving ample space between.

BTW, the houses in the area of the bridge are generally 30 feet above the river. It's the bend side that needs to be built up the most. Does anyone know how much higher a bridge would have to go to clear river traffic?

[Shuzilla]

Wow - where did the cut and paste come from?

No cut and paste. Those were just my thoughts. I deemed them sufficiently boring to require a smaller font . I've hoped we could get away from the particulars of the bridge, but then there I went...

[grapa]

Wow - where did the cut and paste come from?

As a resident of BB we HAVE been warned of development, tlk of a bridge has been on the table for years, this is not new! Defeated projects to this point have been for obvious reasons(dump, racetrack). This deserves looking at, naturalists will receive nearly 1000 acres, economic relief would help all in the county, and NEW jobs would be formed benefiting the region. From the OHB side an empty trailor and small empty homes would come down to allow for a bridge at that site. The May Group also has purchased Robertson Island, opposite the Cockrill Bend Park area on Centennial Blvd. which is in the neighborhood of John Tune Airport, corporate jets fly out of there dailey.

[wrdbrn]

As a resident of BB we HAVE been warned of development, tlk of a bridge has been on the table for years, this is not new! Defeated projects to this point have been for obvious reasons(dump, racetrack). This deserves looking at, naturalists will receive nearly 1000 acres, economic relief would help all in the county, and NEW jobs would be formed benefiting the region. From the OHB side an empty trailor and small empty homes would come down to allow for a bridge at that site. The May Group also has purchased Robertson Island, opposite the Cockrill Bend Park area on Centennial Blvd. which is in the neighborhood of John Tune Airport, corporate jets fly out of there dailey.

Naturalists are one thing and they do an excellent job of keeping the protection of our resources on the front burner. This thread still ignores the question of where is our local food going to be grown? Has the Corps of Engineers given approval for this bridge? Last I PERSONALLY heard was that the only thing they were willing to approve was ferry access. No bridge no project. There fore the bridge is very important to the topic. Why hasn't Hickory Hollow or Bellevue DEVELOPMENT done any better ... go fix all of those first before you just build something new! Including that crater at 17th and Broadway. For the very breathe I draw I cannot understand what is so blinking hard to understand about better utilization of land already marred by concrete and asphalt.

Note: The last stated number is 40 homes, single family owned R-10 zoned homes to be taken on the Charlotte Park Side. A neighboor hood that is 75% generational owned since +/- 1963. Even I can read the nashville.gov maps.

[wrdbrn]

No cut and paste. Those were just my thoughts. I deemed them sufficiently boring to require a smaller font . I've hoped we could get away from the particulars of the bridge, but then there I went...

I offer public apology... my typing fingers got wrapped around my eye teeth and caused me to spout off. That was mean-spirited and unnecessary on my part.

[grapa]

The idea of BB turning into "the food source" for middle Tennessee is difficult to accept. This area has some generation holdings, but they have not continued the farming concept, generations before had only been self sustaining and only selling marginal products.

Those who today 'farm' do so not as means of 'making a living'. There is only a couple of residents raising cattle and even they do not use this as a primary income source. The term "farming" is being used to describe an area that has not been developed but is surrounded by residential growth. Using the term 'farming' is sending a picture that does not apply, today.

I love our wetlands, wild life, and scenic views. A compromise needs to be found so that everyone, we who live in the 'Bend' and across Davidson County. We have known that 'development'(CHANGE) was coming, a well planned concept between developers and our mayor and council will give us a balance that can be accepted.

[grapa]

Even today it surprises us when we meet people who can not find our address. We just think everyone knows that Old Hickory Boulevard really does run through the middle of Bells Bend. Delivery, fire, and those who read the newspaper can't find us!

[wrdbrn]

The idea of BB turning into "the food source" for middle Tennessee is difficult to accept. This area has some generation holdings, but they have not continued the farming concept, generations before had only been self sustaining and only selling marginal products.

Those who today 'farm' do so not as means of 'making a living'. There is only a couple of residents raising cattle and even they do not use this as a primary income source. The term "farming" is being used to describe an area that has not been developed but is surrounded by residential growth. Using the term 'farming' is sending a picture that does not apply, today.

I love our wetlands, wild life, and scenic views. A compromise needs to be found so that everyone, we who live in the 'Bend' and across Davidson County. We have known that 'development'(CHANGE) was coming, a well planned concept between developers and our mayor and council will give us a balance that can be accepted.

I have talked personally to the owners of some 30K acres who have already made such a commitment. It is not unreasonable to want to support them. It is good for the overall make up of the city WE call home. The protection of land that has the potential to sustain all of Us; Our river, Our wildlife, OUR natural resources, Our community, Our growth. Goodness. Have you been to the meetings? The development while perhaps conversationally tolerated out of courtesy is certianly not the desire of the land owners I have talked to.

[Shuzilla]

Naturalists are one thing and they do an excellent job of keeping the protection of our resources on the front burner. This thread still ignores the question of where is our local food going to be grown? Has the Corps of Engineers given approval for this bridge? Last I PERSONALLY heard was that the only thing they were willing to approve was ferry access. No bridge no project. There fore the bridge is very important to the topic.

1. Please define local. 2. Yes, there's nothing to oppose until a bridge is approved and funded. The impacts of this kind of development can still be discussed without bridge particulars.

Why hasn't Hickory Hollow or Bellevue DEVELOPMENT done any better ... go fix all of those first before you just build something new! Including that crater at 17th and Broadway. For the very breathe I draw I cannot understand what is so blinking hard to understand about better utilization of land already marred by concrete and asphalt.

HH and the Bellevue malls HAD their day. They did work for a time. Circumstances changed their viability. But the commercial part of May Town Center is as much, if not more, for the population living and working there as it is to draw shoppers into MTC like a shopping mall would. The main emphasis will be for corporate campuses (campi?) and needed office space in the '05.

I don't think that anyone disagrees with the assertion that it is better to build on brownfields than on greenfields, but rather with the assertion that it is imparative to do so. The May property is in question, and it is underdeveloped. I do not believe that every brownfield must be developed prior to the May property. Future growth (numbers I posted earlierr) pretty much guarantee the need to develop both brownfields and greenfields at some time in the future. When that time comes, there will still be 800 + 900 acres in Bells Bend untouched, plus Beaman Park to the north, plus Percy and Edwin warner parks to the South, etc.

Note: The last stated number is 40 homes, single family owned R-10 zoned homes to be taken on the Charlotte Park Side. A neighboor hood that is 75% generational owned since +/- 1963. Even I can read the nashville.gov maps.

If you would, please offer up the source who stated 40 homes, and I will be happy to call him/her immediately and get a firm quote from that person to put in this thread. However, your broader point is well taken about the impact across the river from the bend. I think that, for the opposition, there will be much more resistance to be found in Hillwood, West Meade, Belle Meade as well as Charlotte Park, than many may think. Perhaps even a more solid resistance than from Bells Bend and Scottsboro. Not just from property condemnation, but also from increased traffic flow through existing infrastructure for which it was not designed.

[grapa]

I offer again the possibility of bridge access from Briley Parkway and Centennial Parkway, giving access to the Tune Airport that has also been mentioned in the meetings.

The 'loudest' voice you were hearing at community meetings came from individuals not"living" in the Bend, south of Highway 12. I can support the feelings to meet the goals of "Friends of Bells Bend" and the idea to connect Beamon Park to Bells Bend Park with walking and bike trails, but the idea of preserving the area "just as is' is unrealistic!

The members of the planning commission attednding these meetings tried to convey that message when they said, "we are the planning commission, planning is our job." It is hard to accept the good of the whole, and for one family who did attend the meetings it is fair to consider all of the plan and not get bogged done by one part of the plan.

I do acknowledge that access to the Bend is the vital step, it is one that has been driven home to us many projects ago, and must accept!

[Velo_Editor]

I might have missed the details about who will pay for a bridge, but knowing two TDOT employees, one who is a bridge designer, they both laugh at the idea that TDOT would be able to foot any part of the bill for a bridge like this. With the federal funds being slashed repeatedly they're struggling to fulfill current projects, let alone undertake new ones. I was told that the budget for the completion of 840 will nearly exhaust the budget for new construction this year alone.