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May Town Center


smeagolsfree

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I will have to say that I am going back and forth on this project. I see the need for preservation and I want to see a project like this in Nashville somewhere, and contrary to waht I may have said earlier, I now see the need for farming close to the city center. This is going to be a tough issue and I dont relish being in the middle of the public debate (not here but in the Metro Council). I think a lot of good issues have sprung up. I am not even sure this thing is going to be feasible to construct with one access to the project.

I love the idea of connectivity with Beaman and Bells Bend Parks, and this project could work well in preserving almost half of the land on the proposed site.

There are several sub topics that may come out of this thread that are not related to the May Center project such as urban farming, and park connectivity. If anyone wants to tackle that, go for it.

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There have been comments made to the failure of Metro Center and 100 Oaks and the May Town Center would only be a duplicate of those projects. This is not a fitting comparison. In the new MTC priority will be given to a "corporate park". (Corporations seeking relocation to middle Tennessee such as those recently landing in the Cool Springs area.). It is from these large business concerns that the inflow of new tax money will come. The 'theory' of "if you build it, they will come", may well fit here.

Nashville is a popular commodity that needs to plan for what is ahead. At this time, maintaining where we are is causing our city to fall further behind.

Of the 1500 acres holding in the MTC project, approximately 50% is in the flood plain, the land along the river in Bells Bend Park falls into this classification, also. The Wells' farm mentioned in todays' Tennessean has land in the flood plain. This land is plentiful enough to handle the organic farming that is being suggested.

In the proposal by the Mays Group I heard there were maybe 4 different sites that might be useable for access to the Bend. One could be near Cockerill Bend Park, located off Centennial Blvd.

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The people of Bells Bend are lucky that May Town Center's developers are actually giving consideration to the surrounding area/residents.

A crew could pull building permits TOMORROW and erect homes on their private property. No re-zoning required

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It is good to hear some well thought comments from some who understand that this is a chance for all involved to benefit. One article gave the area of Bells Bend to 6000 acres. The MTC group is volunteering approximately 1000 acres for preservation. This is one-sixth of the approximate total area of the 'Bend'. I wonder how many landowners would willingly give up one-sixth of their property when land is at such a premium and in demand. The total area from the Beamon Park through Bells Bend would be between 12-13000 acres. This would mean that the MTC is handing over a large part of land nearing the size of the Beamon Park, larger than Bells Bend park and the nearly 500 acres proposed to be used is a small portion of the total land area. On top of all this "all" of the citizens of Davidson County can benefit from this source of new tax base. While some surounding counties have sufficient tax bases there are some who would beg for additional sources.

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It is good to hear some well thought comments from some who understand that this is a chance for all involved to benefit. One article gave the area of Bells Bend to 6000 acres. The MTC group is volunteering approximately 1000 acres for preservation. This is one-sixth of the approximate total area of the 'Bend'. I wonder how many landowners would willingly give up one-sixth of their property when land is at such a premium and in demand. The total area from the Beamon Park through Bells Bend would be between 12-13000 acres. This would mean that the MTC is handing over a large part of land nearing the size of the Beamon Park, larger than Bells Bend park and the nearly 500 acres proposed to be used is a small portion of the total land area. On top of all this "all" of the citizens of Davidson County can benefit from this source of new tax base. While some surounding counties have sufficient tax bases there are some who would beg for additional sources.

grapa, how do you think the residents of Scottsboro/Bells Bend would take to the idea to move the disputed area of the bend, May property southward and treatment plant eastward, to the council district across the river? How about allowing the planning commission to move that area out of the Scottsboro community and into the West Nashville community for planning purposes? Should OHB stop at the park and a bridge be built from West Nashville, such moves would best reflect the actual political and planning boundaries, IMO.

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grapa, how do you think the residents of Scottsboro/Bells Bend would take to the idea to move the disputed area of the bend, May property southward and treatment plant eastward, to the council district across the river? How about allowing the planning commission to move that area out of the Scottsboro community and into the West Nashville community for planning purposes? Should OHB stop at the park and a bridge be built from West Nashville, such moves would best reflect the actual political and planning boundaries, IMO.

A good part of Bells Bend is zoned for one unit per two acres of land. Some have tried to change this and also add cluster grouping.

MTC will use a smaller portion for development than others have proposed and will leave more acres for 'natural causes'. I believe that thru compromise the size of the deveopment will be smaller than originally planned, isn't that what negotiating is all about.

The biggest interest in this project has to be the involvement of corporate buildings to benefit the city.

As a resident of the "Bend" I can not see the closing of OHB anywhere along the existing road. Wouldn't this be counter-productive in the goal of developing a 'Park' that is suppose to serve all of the residents of Davidson County and beyond? For those who can remember when the dialogue began concerning development of Bells Bend into the future of Nashville, the building of a bridge in West Nashville was for the purpose of opening up the region and allow traffic flow from Highway 12 and the Joelton area(North) to Interwstate 40 and West Nashville.

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As a resident of the "Bend" I can not see the closing of OHB anywhere along the existing road. Wouldn't this be counter-productive in the goal of developing a 'Park' that is suppose to serve all of the residents of Davidson County and beyond? For those who can remember when the dialogue began concerning development of Bells Bend into the future of Nashville, the building of a bridge in West Nashville was for the purpose of opening up the region and allow traffic flow from Highway 12 and the Joelton area(North) to Interwstate 40 and West Nashville.

Perhaps, but the OHB bridge connecting into Bellevue is on hold indefinitely, or at least that is what someone posted a while back. The Scottsboro community has made it known that they do not want an increase in traffic that comes with either a bridge or a Bells Bend development of any size. The people who show up for planning meetings are against a bridge. That is what Metro is hearing. Metro needs to hear the other side of that argument from Bells Bend residents.

Now, has the highway department really handed the keys to the future of a bride across the Cumberland to one small community? I can't say, but being short of funding, opposition is a rather convenient excuse.

You mentioned acces to the park. Most likely, Bells Bend Park will be accessible from the north and from the south but will not allow a connection through. The proposal to cut the north off was stated by the developer to be in response to community interests. I think it was also a calculated move to divide the opposition between those who are against any development and those who don't like it but know it will come and will have some benefit to themselves and their heirs.

The corporate campus idea is, IMO, mainly to entice public money into this project. I may be mistaken, but I think a private entity can build its own bridge across a navigable river provided the proper Corps of Engineers permits are issued and the state legislature passes a bill to allow it. A less ambitious development would still more than pay for a two-lane $20 to $30 million bridge in land appreciation alone, but why pay from your own pocket when you can get the same state and federal dollars for your development as others have gotten? Who paid for the recent McEwen interchange on I-65?

I agree with you that the bridge would be worth more to the taxpayer if it connected to hwy 12, and thus the developer would be in a better position to get public construction funding approved if OHB went through. That's why he needs to divide and/or dilute local opposition in such a way that a connection northward is still in the cards. If you go to the May Town Center website and read Tony Giarrantina's address to the February 11 planning meeting attendants, you will see how his argument addresses many of the issues opponents have had with previous developments and anticipated a few others. (That is all I mean by dividing and diluting the opposition.)

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I agree that including of the suggestion of barring traffic North beyond Bells Bend Park was a 'chess' move from someone who has played this game before. I, like my neighbors would find it difficult to swallow if we were denied access to something that could be so positive while living across a drawn line in the sand. Would they actually dangle the prize before our nose and not allow us to taste it simply because some had opposing views. Stopping flow on OHB seems to be far fetched to me.

I suggest going to the Home of the maytowncenter.com, in one presentation by T.G. it was hinted that maybe there was four possible bridge accesses. Look at the bottom trees areas, the old ferry site, and to the upper right off Centennial Blvd.

Check the Tennessean daily for the budget hearings news and the school board is asking for an increase in their budget for next year. In comments made by T.G. the possibility of private financing by Mr. May is mentioned. Do I suggest he will pay for everything, I would be foolish.

The planning commission also pointed out they were wstablished to "plan" for the entire metro community, the proximity of BB to downtown could possibly be its' undoing. Do you know that a stretch along OHB is also zoned industrial? (IR - Industrial Restricted)

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Happy Monday!

I have had company and to that end I took some time off. Thank you smeagolsfree for noting the impact of some 95,000 workers commuters, shoppers funneling over to May Town thru Hilllwood, Davidson Drive, White Bridge Road etc.; infrastructure on the West Side is not ready to bear the weight. Not to even consider the impact on Schools and other services.

Hankster - you really do not understand the need for locally grown produce? Well you probably didn't understand that Florida should not have gotten Jacksonville as an expansion team. Nashville should have been the expansion team and Jacksonville should have paid for their stadium... municipal bond issues are very complicated. Weather it is better to buy tomatoes from a local farmer or from some South American or Chinese farm should be much easier.

Grapa - You sound like you are speaking for all of your neighbors. I have been to the meeting in the bend and IMO you present a contradiction to what is presented out there.

Now as for the folks on the other side of the river. Councilman Buddy Baker holds a meeting tomorrow night. Yes I will be there.

Paying for the bridge. Private? Public? whatever. It will still have to meet waterway standards, which I am using as a loose term for the hurdles from TDOT, Corps, and the myriad of other regulatory agencies.

A bridge to a development be cause one man and his developer has an idea is just wrong for the long range development of Davidson County.

Off to bring myself up to date on all of the mechanizations of this deplorable snow job by Tony G and his Steam Shovel

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I am happy to see some dialogue concerning MTC continue, I don't want to sound as if I represent myself as speaker anyone other than myself. Being directly affected by this proposal, I am concerned about my home, family, natural environment, value of life and land value. Is there a property owner who isn't?

After defeating Mr. Z, who came in telling us what was going to happen without public input! How many times will fighting get resolution. It is not a case of giving in that we face. It is an intelligent move to get those things that can possibly help everyone, this is in my opinion, and that is all that I am trying to convey.

Ten families, all property owners directly affected by this project, met in my home recently to hear proposals from individuals who live outside of the "Bend" about putting our land in conservatory and heritage land protection and Nashville Greenspace. These providing sale of the development rights to our property while maintaining ownership. There would be prearranged conditions of sale that would remain on the property.

Another of my opinions that I have tried to convey is that those who have yelled, chanted, called for a poll of hands, and portrayed a rude uncooperative spirit are led by individuals who live away from the actual building site, and North of Highway 12. Those who are familiar with the area call Bells Bend, "the Bend", when referring to someone who lives here. They are quiet living residents, mostly from families who have lived here for generations, voters, poll workers and have passed homesteads along to younger generations.

Most of these people do not, most of the support for connecting Beamon Park with Bells Bend Park with greenspace and bike trails are locally and statewide politically connected. We want to be able to say what we want to do with our property, not be told and bullied into something else!

OOOPS, I have rattled on, again! Sorry abot that. It is a touchy subject when it comes down to you. We just want the "best" fit that everyone can live with, we do not want to continue to fight and I do not want new taxes, check the budget discussions going on right now. Most would not vote for a tax increase but how do we pay!

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For those concerned about the amount of farming area, I was looking at the latest agricultural census (http://www.fedstats.gov/qf/states/47000.html) and there is over 50,000 acres of cropland in Davidson County and over 200,000 each in Williamson, Wilson, and Robertson Counties. This includes acreage for grain, bean, oilseed, egg, meat and dairy production. Even with the 600 acre May Town Center development, I think there may be just enough open land in the metro Nashville area to support the population if it's all intensively farmed and if the infrastructure can be put into place to distribute it.

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For those concerned about the amount of farming area, I was looking at the latest agricultural census (http://www.fedstats.gov/qf/states/47000.html) and there is over 50,000 acres of cropland in Davidson County and over 200,000 each in Williamson, Wilson, and Robertson Counties. This includes acreage for grain, bean, oilseed, egg, meat and dairy production. Even with the 600 acre May Town Center development, I think there may be just enough open land in the metro Nashville area to support the population if it's all intensively farmed and if the infrastructure can be put into place to distribute it.

Good point. And the area is sooooo sprawled out that there are tens of thousands chosing to live way out beyond these hundreds of thousands of acres of farmland in places like Spring Hill rather than moving to places built on development built from farmland close in to the city like May town Center. There is NO shortage of farmland, folks. And it will always be cheaper and make more sense to farm the relatively cheap land outlying the city than the vauable land located near its center.

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GID;

The least intrusive access to the Bend would have a head start on any other project.

Closing OHB never seemed a viable action as an earlier writer commented that it was used as a negotiating tactic.

The Bend is zoned one unit per two acres. Some want it all to become one per five estate acres. Mr. Z. came in too aggressive and not knowing his opponent.

The planning commission is quick to point out that the term "zoning" implies that changes can be initiated by anyone.

At tonights meeting of residents of the Charlotte Road and Annex Road area information came out about another possibility for location of 'the' bridge. I have written earlier that access from Centennial Blvd. made more sense for a lot of obvious reasons, plus very few are aware that Robertson Island lies directly in line with CB and that the MTC group already owns it. It is a virtual 'waste' land, good for just a few possible uses.(Check your maps).

Yes, I do think something is possible. I just want something good for "our" neighborhood, and if the city of Nashville benefited I can only see where we might see only more benefits.

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Sorry, I was about to forget one nugget for thought.

With all of this water access shoreline comments(rumors) have been heard, maybe hopes, that a marina could possibly been in the long range plans, especially if the bridge did come across at Centennial Blvd. and the island the start of a navigatable waterway.

There really are a lot of possibilities!

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At tonights meeting of residents of the Charlotte Road and Annex Road area information came out about another possibility for location of 'the' bridge. I have written earlier that access from Centennial Blvd. made more sense for a lot of obvious reasons, plus very few are aware that Robertson Island lies directly in line with CB and that the MTC group already owns it. It is a virtual 'waste' land, good for just a few possible uses.(Check your maps).

I'm not against a bridge there per se, but I think it would kill the development, or at best create another Metro Center. Have you seen what is out there at Centennial Boulevard? Prisons and industry, as was the plan. As you said, the primary drive for MTC is to land corporate headquarters in Davidson. I don't think one will lure national and international corporations to Nashville driving their search team through prison bend. As a secondary access/airport access, yes. But the primary access should be from the West Nashville or Bellevue area.

Something also to consider is that, should a bridge go to Centennial, there won't be another bridge built to the Bend for decades, or until growth in MTC warrants (which, if the bridge is improperly sighted, may never grow enough to need a third access point). The first, best shot is to go for all the marbles, which is the $50 to $80 million bridge/interchange proposal.

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My take... from the meeting last night regarding the potential bridge placement for access to Maytown that is shown to cross the Cumberland at Cleeses Ferry.

At last nights meeting with Council District 20's Charlotte Park and Beacon Square residents Tony G presented Maytown. It took several calls from the crowd to keep him focused on the bridge issue. He is so focused on selling the idea of this development his standard schpiel kept slipping in. Once he started asking questions that were bridge specific the polite crowd turned. Representative homeowners that ranged from Scottsboro all the way to Belle Meade were there to ask their questions. The did not cotton to the idea of writing them down on cards and handing them in. One of the patriarchs of the community said loudly, this is West Nashville; which seemed to mean I am an adult and expect you to answer the questions I ask you face to face. Buddy Baker tried to ask the questions off the cards ~ the crowd tried to comply ~ hot words were exchanged on both sides ~ and everyone tried to apologize for their outbursts, including Tony, and assume a position of conversational tolerance.

Tony G did openly say that IF the bridge went in at Cleeses Ferry that first 6 homes would be taken immediately. That the project was 3 stages and by completion a total of 39-40 homes would be taken. He was quickly checked by all of the residents who would then look up at a 4 lane interstate SPUR (No access to Nashville West).

Next he did say that after a call from Councilman Baker he asked this team to investigate other bridge sites. He was very open to moving the bridge to the Centennial Boulevard access possibility; and then said in 20 years the need for yet another bridge would be necessary. This idea brought applause and cheers, which made even Tony G.'s shoulders relax a little. And then mutters... about stopping yet another bridge down the road.

Numbers. 40,000 ish workers, 900 ish residences, 75 million dollar a year in new tax revenue from property taxes and sales taxes - by project completion....

Tony was very up front about everything being at www.maytowncenter.com.

He noted that Central Park in NY had 800 acres and a large number (ok I didnt write that one down) of visitors. And the call from the room was that we didnt want to live in a city like NY or we would move there. The look on TG's face was one that noted he might have not chosen a good analogy. With that he moved to Bethesda Row and another development... Reston VA? Which at least dazzled the crowd into getting back to the subject of the bridge.

I talked to homeowners that had grown up on Tidwell Hollow Road and had married and made Charlotte Park their home. A couple had sold their Williamson County home and were headed back to their generational home in the Bend Area of the Scottsboro Community. A couple that had moved from Williamson county into "mom's" house on RiverRouge. All said that no matter the monetary offer that may come for thier homes; nothing could compensate for their way of life; they couldn't by a river front property that was comperable to what they have.

The meeting was graced by Senator Douglas Henry. ( And, Mr. Zeitlin was sitting calmly in the back grinning like a Cheshire cat.)

At the end of the day the information should have been conveyed that 1. Maytown is in the mind of Giarratana and the May family the highest and best use for the land. 2. The studies are 2 years out and the Centennial Bridge very appealing to Giarratana. 3. Giarratana is meeting with actual homeowners that will be looking up at the bridge starting on the 12th - today. (I bet that it is postponed with the possibility of the Centennial Bridge now in play). 4. The environmental assessment issues have not even started, and depending on the bridge location - other studies have not yet started

What Tony G. may not be counting on is the resilience and long memory of the West Nashville community, of the Scottsboro community, for that matter of the Hillwood and Bellevue Communities. This was the first volley in a very long process on the South side of the river...

Egads.. this needs a couple of quick edits but I am running late... I will update this post in an hour or so...

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Another thing to consider when contemplating a primary bridge access from Centennial Boulevard is the position Nashville would be in if the bridge is built but MTC fails to materialize, for whatever reason. Having spent money for the bridge, something will be allowed to be built there. That something would most likely be a natural extension of what is already on Centennial: industry, warehousing, prisons and junkyards. Not at all a comforting thought!

If the same happened with a bridge in the planned location, the next proposal would be more housing and some retail, a natural extension of the 37205 area. Maybe even a school. Maybe a brand-spanking-new Hellwood Comprehensive High School!

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Thanks for the update on how the meeting went wrdbrn. I dont think there was any media coverage and if there was it must have been brief. At least both sides of the issue are talking and I know this one will take a while.

Thanks to all for keeping hot emotions out of the discussions here. This is going to be a hot button issue for a long while I would bet.

There have been a lot of good discussions and ideas brought up here. Keep em coming.

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Thanks for the play by play.

Don't forget the meeting in Scottsboro on the 25th.

Keeping OHB will come up again!

Did you know there exists approximately 26 acres in The Bend zoned industrial?

If the bridge is built with a Centennial Blvd. access you will see an upgrade in the road with tree lined curbs.

The banks on both sides will require building up and could raise the bridge so frontage roads to the prison and other industry will be needed.

Channel 5 did a report live and also had video inside showing the big crowd and speakers. It was a short report, though. More will be seen today and probably in the Tennessean tomorrow.

How do you think last nites meeting will affect the next in "The Bend".

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Geeze it is a very busy day. Make no bones about it, I am adamantly against the Maytown development located in Bells Bend. I do think that TG has some interesting development ideas that could easily be dropped into Metro Center or other areas that are already worn with concrete and asphalt. As Nashvillians we need to clean up the mess we have first. Even the folks at the meeting last night need to take more ownership in the overall community. The impact of an increase in Davidson County Residents that flow thru from the "west sector" would be a disaster. Police, Fire, Schools, Roads, ... and then there is the HUGE issue of the Harpeth Valley Water District who would be getting the water revenue while METRO would eventually have to carry the infrastructure bill. Shades of Bellevue all over again. I could rage on about all of the corporates that would be paying little or no commercial property taxes as incentives to "come back," and other bennies and perks.

I did take issue with HCA leaving. HCA owns hospitals so I would hope that the bulk of its employees are not sitting at the corporate headquarters near Charlotte Pike and Centennial Park. TG did mention this as a "problem." Tom Cigarran's various health management companies sure seem happily tucked away in Burton Hills... There are plenty of well healed, well moneyed, corporate headquarters doing just fine in Davidson Co. The may not have a gigantic blue collar or union workforce. But they are sitting mighty pretty.

The Scottsboro Community, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, understands that development will come and that is why they started the community plan. Natural, planned, growth at Highway 12 and OHB. The Briley Parkway Exchange... these even they expect; and have worked very hard to develop a plan for their community that should be honored. They should be respected and commended for their foresight.

Again... I am sorry that the MAY FAMILY ASSuMEd that they could just hire a developer to build a legacy city with in the city limits. Plenty of communities band together to stop commercial spread, McMansions, and to do good things as well (walk bike Nashville right up there on the top of the list.)

This is a LONG LONG process. I have been committed to preserving the land in Bells Bend since 1990. As it is said - in for a penny in for a pound. God willing I will be healthy enough to stand for the protection of this land for at least 40 more years.

I am almost thru with the laundry... it has been such a nice day to hang things on the line out back!

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Now that I've looked at the idea of a bridge to Cockrill Bend, I am against it (sorry grapa). Just look at a map: the resulting route to West Nashville would be longer and slower than just staying on Ashland City Highway to Briley Parkway. What a waste! If the bridge is to have public funding it needs to contribute to more than MTC. At least where it is currently planned at Annex there is potential for an additional I-40 access and access to BB Park and Ashland City (I suspect OHB will connect eventually).

Again, folks in the Bend need to think really clearly about connecting to Cockrill Bend. You may not like the kind of development that follows once that bridge has to pay for itself with tax revenue. Regarding landscaping and other improvements on that side, there's not enough lipstick at Macy's to pretty up that pig. Look for salt sheds and concrete plants if MTC fails to develop as planned.

The impact of an increase in Davidson County Residents that flow thru from the "west sector" would be a disaster. Police, Fire, Schools, Roads, ...

Any growth will cause these problems. Maybe not here, but somewhere else, wherever growth will occur. Look for 300,000 to 500,000 more people living in the midstate by the time May Town Center wraps up in 20 years. All sorts of undeveloped spaces, greenfield and brownfield, will need to be utilized; it's not an "either-or" proposition.

This is really a planning issue, not a preservation issue. Land has been and will be preserved in the Bend. Compromise dictates letting that 450 acres go so that 900 private acres may be made publicly accessible, maybe even for use as an agricultural classroom. Certainly, burn-yer-bridges obstruction will not bring organic farming to property the opposition will never own.

Besides, has anyone thought about how much ecological damage pets, chemicals of all kinds, and overflowing septic fields can be wrought by the hundreds of houses that will be allowed on even 5-acre lots? If the Bend is a place so rural that folks are free to "pee off their porch" and "shoot guns," then would country folk live with the rules imposed on new home owners requiring, for example, fencing and leashes for their pets to protect the whooping crane nest?

A compact development like the one proposed here means less roads, shorter utility runs and better all-around planning than if the same amount of housing, office and commercial was distributed among a hundred smaller and more suburban developments on the periphery. Again, Middle Tennessee will grow somewhere, and what is not built intensely on 450 acres of Bells Bend farmland will probably end up sprawled over 2000 acres of Williamson or Robertson County farmland in the usual piecemeal fashion.

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I like what I see is happening today. There is sensible dialogue that can be constructive(sorry about my choice of words).

Someone wrote last week that 'consideration should be given to what roads all of those trucks and heavy equipment were going to travel during construction'. I have to conceed that there may be initial traffic to get groundbreaking and first construction of buildings started. (Maybe).

All site construction could be negotiated to take place after completion of the (first) bridge. Also, no one has said that only one bridge would be the only one built. The project is to be built in stages per TG comments. This would allow most of initial traffic to travel Centennial Blvd. and a second bridge in the second stage.

I don't want to give much credit but this isn't the "first time" for these business partners!

I also want to add that for years we in the Bend have complained about the narrow road we travel each day. I have dodged big rigs, delivery trucks, SUV, boats, and trailers for years!! Not too long ago we had a young mother killed by such over-sized traffic and the road is the same, today!

It would be nice to have ample room for each lane and shoulders for the bike riders from Beamon Park to Bells Bend Park.

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SHUZILLA,

Thanks for the comments. I am a very "big" conservationist at heart and animal lover, on the fringe of a 'tree hugger'. I am not climbing a tree and live in a tent, though.

My statements may not have given that perception, but I believe that the two sides in this discussion can live together. There is a lot of land here that can not be used for industry, factories and large scrap metal salvage yards.

No one should dream that this area could ever develop into "the" major food production source Middle Tennessee or Nashville. It could be developed into agricultural extension farm for experimental purposes, UT has several around the state. They are in the process of closing one now and moving it to Middle Tennessee.

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