May Town Center

[wrdbrn]

Right up there with the Beaman's, Warner's and others. What an incredible legacy. Thank you for at least seeing the score that I am singing from over here.

[grapa]

WrdBrn,

I, would have problems with living within earshot of 440, as can you imagine what a race track would have brought, think of Gladeville. I am one of those who wish to do what ever "off my front porch." Make the drive down Briley near Ashland City exit and look at the man-made mountains that a consumption hungry-obese society is content with as long as it is in someone else' front yard.

I love the idea resembling Leiper sFork. The log cabin replica that was placed at the intersection of hwy 12 and OHB was a great idea and we had a big yard sale and barbecue to help. All of this "is" what I woould strongly support, "but" at that location I fear the site would not be successful due to the much more heavy traffic load down Hyw 12. most of which is headed out of town or into town. Hwy 12 is a "means to some place else" and I can not see it being workful at that site. Now, something down around old Wade school might work, but(there that word is again) a "bit' out of the way and sight.

Before going further, I do want to show some appreciation to WrdBrn understanding that you helped out with the other issues of encroachment we have put up with. Thanks!

[smeagolsfree]

From the CP today. Concerning a land swap with the May family.

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/news.php?viewStory=59577

The idea of a land swap has appeal to me. I think it could be worked out that an unlimited height could be proposed in the areas in question. The fairgrounds could work well for this and there is a lot of other land in that area that is misused or underutilized that could be bought for a lot less than you would think. There is a rail line that runs right next to the site, so they could conceivably have a rail commuter connection there too. Even if they didn't have mass transit a rail line there then the 2nd and 4th Aves, would be prime corridors for a BRT route. If this is in the middle of town then there would not be a real need for a lot of residential to be built as there at the very start and there could be ample mass transit to the site. If they did want to add residential, then it could be done easily by multiple developers all around that area. Supply and demand would run the market. This would also cause the entire area between DT and the Fairgrounds to be developed.

[Richard Lawson]

From the CP today. Concerning a land swap with the May family.

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/news.php?viewStory=59577

The idea of a land swap has appeal to me. I think it could be worked out that an unlimited height could be proposed in the areas in question. The fairgrounds could work well for this and there is a lot of other land in that area that is misused or underutilized that could be bought for a lot less than you would think. There is a rail line that runs right next to the site, so they could conceivably have a rail commuter connection there too. Even if they didn't have mass transit a rail line there then the 2nd and 4th Aves, would be prime corridors for a BRT route. If this is in the middle of town then there would not be a real need for a lot of residential to be built as there at the very start and there could be ample mass transit to the site. If they did want to add residential, then it could be done easily by multiple developers all around that area. Supply and demand would run the market. This would also cause the entire area between DT and the Fairgrounds to be developed.

I hope this generates discussion beyond just comments on the CP site. Far too often, conventional thinking rolls and creative thinking seems never to appear. Not that I was being creative necessarily, but I wanted to pose and idea that has folks looking at the box differently.

[titanhog]

From the CP today. Concerning a land swap with the May family.

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/news.php?viewStory=59577

The idea of a land swap has appeal to me. I think it could be worked out that an unlimited height could be proposed in the areas in question. The fairgrounds could work well for this and there is a lot of other land in that area that is misused or underutilized that could be bought for a lot less than you would think. There is a rail line that runs right next to the site, so they could conceivably have a rail commuter connection there too. Even if they didn't have mass transit a rail line there then the 2nd and 4th Aves, would be prime corridors for a BRT route. If this is in the middle of town then there would not be a real need for a lot of residential to be built as there at the very start and there could be ample mass transit to the site. If they did want to add residential, then it could be done easily by multiple developers all around that area. Supply and demand would run the market. This would also cause the entire area between DT and the Fairgrounds to be developed.

Plus...the I-440 exit for Nolensville Rd is right there as well.

[titanhog]

I hope this generates discussion beyond just comments on the CP site. Far too often, conventional thinking rolls and creative thinking seems never to appear. Not that I was being creative necessarily, but I wanted to pose and idea that has folks looking at the box differently.

I saw where you took a beating on the CP. Sorry bout that for ya!

I don't think the fairgrounds would work out there at BB because of accessability...but it's a good idea to maybe do a swap somehow.

As of now, the TN State Fair is a joke compared to state fairs in other states...and it's crazy that the Wilson County Fair draws larger crowds than the State Fair.

I do believe the fair and race track land should be used for something other than it's current use, especially if it helps to upgrade the area. Surely there's some land in Davidson County where you could hold the state fair...somewhere closer to a county line...more rural. Whites Creek or Joelton? Antioch? Bellevue? Donelson?

[Hankster]

I can't imagine the May family or the developers being interested in swapping for land at the fairgrounds. Access is a problem for sure, but I don't think the companies interested in relocating corporate headquarters to Nashville will be too interested in relocating in an area surrounding by middle class neighborhoods.

I think being surrounded by 1000 acres of park lands is the lure that would bring them in.

[Shuzilla]

"If the discussion over the May Town Center proposals indeed becomes about the urban core, then perhaps one idea would be to swap land the city owns in the urban core with the Bells Bend property the May family owns."

Sounds like, rather than compromise, it's another special intrest piglet wanting to eat from the Bells Bend trough. Folks who want to see the urban core more dense, folks who consider anything not built on a street grid laid out prior to the great depression as eeeeeeeeeeeeee-vile sprawl, now want a piece of the action!

I am assuming that the speedway would not make it's way to the bend in this swap, nor will the fair and flea markets because of the same access problems the Mays are facing. Hmmm... exactly why are the relatively few people who want Bells Bend to come to a complete standstill soooo much more important than the thousands who go to the fair grounds to watch car racing, the tens of thousands who attend the monthly flea markets, and the many thosands who come to the state fair? Is it because the Bells Bend opponents are nature-loving right thinking people and the fairground patrons are knuckle-dragging rednecks? That's a serious question, by the way, because I don't see those thousands of people included in this deal.

Now, since the fairgrounds are only a couple hundred acres, if that, and the Mays are giving 900 acres over to a conservation easement, then may I suggest swapping acre for acre, giving the Mays the fairground site to develop and putting the fairground site in a fraction of the 900 acre conservation easement? That would get the fairgrounds redeveloped AND take only a small fraction of the park space in the Bells Bend/Scottsboro area away to do it. But, no racing and no flea market - the "rednecks" would have to take a hike, I guess.

If folks want something from the Mays, you have to give them something in return. Let the Mays have their Town and they might have to pay for some of that bridge that's been planned for years. Let them build, and in return require several hundred public acres for organic farming along the river as part of the deal. Let them have their zoning variance, but in return require them to be part of the Belle Mead UDO that they got out of, and initiate UDO's for their remaining city properties.

[grapa]

I will give Mr. L. credit for getting some to continue the dialogue. How can there be some who take credit for helping the BB community with keeping RACING out of OUR neighborhood now see how popular it would look here when it fits their agenda.

The fairgrounds has had it's troubles over the years from poor attendance at events to what some thought to be management problems. The city has hired the guy they think can help resurrect the FG. How many times do we make a change like moving an established proprietor like the FG and it's scheduled events only to see that the change caused it's demise.

Could it possibly be that the hosting community has changed it's priorities where a 'State Fair' is not as welcoming as it was in the "past'? Has it logically become the 'Middle Tennessee' Fair and that Williamson and Wilson County will always out draw it? These are "fair" communities.

I won't even go into the economics of the loss that would come from the swap.

If we are just throwing ideas off the wall why has not someone come up with the idea of an Agri-Center using all of the existing land in Bells Bend. News has come back from Epcot Center and demostrations there using new growing techniques. The University of Tennessee has just moved part of one of their developmental farms away form Knoxville and it landed in another Middle Tennessee County near-by!! But, I am talking in a 'grand scale' and not the plant a field and let it grow plan that some think will label our Bend as the food source of Tennessee and the Garden Spot of America.

Our economy is in needs of some relief, I am on a fixed income as many residents I know and call neighbors and want to be able to say what we want to do with our land. It is a right and what our country was built on, the American Dream.

[Richard Lawson]

I saw where you took a beating on the CP. Sorry bout that for ya!

I don't think the fairgrounds would work out there at BB because of accessability...but it's a good idea to maybe do a swap somehow.

As of now, the TN State Fair is a joke compared to state fairs in other states...and it's crazy that the Wilson County Fair draws larger crowds than the State Fair.

I do believe the fair and race track land should be used for something other than it's current use, especially if it helps to upgrade the area. Surely there's some land in Davidson County where you could hold the state fair...somewhere closer to a county line...more rural. Whites Creek or Joelton? Antioch? Bellevue? Donelson?

I had some defenders... I recognized that the fairgrounds out there could be bothersome. I think the thing some folks missed though was that the idea wasn't swapping only the fairgrounds property. There would have to be a collection of properties. Fairgrounds alone isn't an even swap. There would have to be more. it wouldn't necessarily be a direct acreage swap but valuation swap.

I think the history of the site was some sort of horse racing. Bring that back and do a tie in with the Mars Farm near Pulaski which has a practice track from the days of yore that replicates the Derby one with dirt and distance. Just another idea.

[grapa]

I had some defenders... I recognized that the fairgrounds out there could be bothersome. I think the thing some folks missed though was that the idea wasn't swapping only the fairgrounds property. There would have to be a collection of properties. Fairgrounds alone isn't an even swap. There would have to be more. it wouldn't necessarily be a direct acreage swap but valuation swap.

I think the history of the site was some sort of horse racing. Bring that back and do a tie in with the Mars Farm near Pulaski which has a practice track from the days of yore that replicates the Derby one with dirt and distance. Just another idea.

Are saying do this without the 'bridge'? It seems to be the block that stumbles. With the MTC there seems to be some consideration of Mr. M. of coffing up some $ to help pay.

[smeagolsfree]

May Town is back in the news with a possible compromise. This involves moving the center closer to the river and moving the location of the bridge. Also the possibility of setting up a fund to help local land owners gain conservation easements. I am not real up on this issue and maybe someone can explain what this is and involves.

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/news.php?viewStory=59888 From the City Paper today.

[Shuzilla]

"Residents say they embarked on the community plan process to protect the area from development."

There's the money quote from the CP article. There is no compromise desired by the opposition, only total victory is acceptable. This has become a personal battle between the Mays and those who have chased out previous developments. The reason that the planning commission was brought into Scottboro/Bells Bend neighborhood in the first place was for preservation, not planning, which is why the wheels have come off of the process. I suspect that the reason May Town was put together as it is was for the May's to get their foot in the door before preservationists locked it shut.

Again, I'm left wondering how serious the redesign and alternate bridge proposal is. Was it a serious attempt at placating critics while keeping the overall concept viable? Or, was it simply an exercise to show planning and the PTB the obvious, that no amount of compromise will satisfy critics?

If planning really wants corporate office space in Davidson, and they favor the Bend for its location, then they need to sprout a pair and remove the May property, the Park and the treatment plant from the current neighborhood discussion. Place the south tip of the Bend in the same neighborhood across the river for planning purposes, for gosh sake. Free the folks of Scottsboro to consider whats best for them, their family and neighbors without having to first consider whether what they desire helps or hurts the preservationists' crusade, which has been the real hijacking of the planning process. Opponents have squandered excelent opportunities to get some of the concessions they have requested, such as organic farming on someone else's property, and have done so as far as I can tell because those concerns were insincere attempts at obstruction.

[Nashville_maestro]

If the May's own the land, don't they get the final say in what happens with it? It seems to me that the residents of scotsboro have been given a privelage to have a say in what they think. They should be working with developers and try to make the best of what they believe is a bad situation. Not fight them.

[Hankster]

Someone please explain to me what power, if any, the people of Scottsboro community have to stop this process if the city fathers decide they want to have this development. After all, isn't this in the city of Nashville?

[vinemp]

Cities grow, or they die.

I think that these negotiations will (should?) quickly boil down to what is appropriate for the [greater good] of Nashville. Especially in a major city, the greater good is often synonymous with a steady, but manageable population growth, ample business development and commerce, a favorable employment rate, and bountiful tax revenues. Nashville-Davidson County, the state [capital] and consolidated municipality in which Bells Bend is located, is a major U.S. city, now. I do not believe those Bells Bend residents opposing the May Town Center development truly fathom what it is they are fighting: namely, the greater good. Forty thousand jobs and $63.8-$99.5million in tax revenues is no mere trifle of good to Nashville, a growing city, with not only an apparently severely limited budget, but a dynamic city that severely needs to improve its infrastructure. As such, the greater good must not be ignored.

[grapa]

Discussion is good for working out differences when 'all' sides agree to share for the benefit of all concerned. Personal agendas only create an atmosphere of conflict and while it is productive to have 'causes' in our society they should not be used to obtain personal gain. Those outside this area of District 1 need to realize that the area in discussion, the Scottsboro/Bells Bend, is just that. It is combining the two mostly because of geographic relationship. Highway 12 separates the two and there is a distinction today that has changed over the years.

The assigned role of the Planning Commission has always been clear and plainly stated. Can it be that there existed a plan to use them to carry out a plan to take the first step in blocking any development in the Bells Bend area. Without the PC and it's direction we would already have had a dump, race track, or 50,000 residents polluting our ditches and streams and no 'cranes' the last ten years or more!

There are property owners trying to remain on the side of fairness and willing to work our way through the process and not continue on a course of conflict. The arguments used to bring a combative atmosphere to our town meetings are valid issues in our society today, but have been used wrongly here.

There has been and is no concrete long term plans and opportunities to develop and use the Bells Bend area for what has been described as a means to feed Nashville. These are well thought out dreams and may have been shared by myself once, but we must come to the conclusion that this would be a wise and constructive move into the future for Nashville.

[GID]

I keep hoping this development will just die or go away as so many others do.

It is a massive project.

I was on the Cumberland in my little sailboat last night; a eagle was flying around looking for its dinner. Just very quiet and peaceful.

Nashville has other areas that are in need of restoration / developement - can one area of a City not be kept rural?

[Hankster]

I keep hoping this development will just die or go away as so many others do.

It is a massive project.

I was on the Cumberland in my little sailboat last night; a eagle was flying around looking for its dinner. Just very quiet and peaceful.

Nashville has other areas that are in need of restoration / developement - can one area of a City not be kept rural?

I could visualize the exact same picture happening after this "massive" project is built. It would be built far away from the shoreline, not visable from the river at all, and the 1000 acres of parkland lining the river guarantee that development never be built there. Without the park, anything could happen along such prime real estate in the future.

[vinemp]

I keep hoping this development will just die or go away as so many others do.

It is a massive project.

I was on the Cumberland in my little sailboat last night; a eagle was flying around looking for its dinner. Just very quiet and peaceful.

Nashville has other areas that are in need of restoration / developement - can one area of a City not be kept rural?

That's just it: a city is not rural, by definition. There are ways cities develop while maintaining land it its natural state--parks. For, "city" also implies an [organization] of landuse.

[grapa]

Population and debt can not be stopped! We make wise management decisions at times and struggle to deal with these societal problems at others. We tend to make band-aid style decisions neighborhood by neighborhood hoping that these problems will go away and not rear their ugly heads again.

The budget proposal is before us on the local and state level. There are problems that have arisen that society as a 'whole' will suffer from and have the responsibility to solve. So, that means you and me! We can not stick our heads in the sand and want things to stay "just as it has always been" in our own neighborhood.

We can hold onto the 'tales' our parents and grandparents share with us of times that are often thought to be the happy years growing up. But, we live in a period and society with much different problems and demands that our parents and grandparents did not have to face. I can not drive across town into someone else's neighborhood to work, shop and for family entertainment and then return to my home and expect it to remain as it has been for the last 100 years, or more.

The developments of the week have revealed cuts in jobs and department budget reductions at a time our local educational budget seeing an increase in funding. The leaders of Davidson County will be making the decision of trying to maintain where we are economically or how do we work out of the hole we find ourselves in today. Will Davidson County make the hard decisions to build for the future and be prepared to deal with the delicate and unexpected demands that come with community planning.

[timmay143]

Wouldn't this development be competing with downtown, ie. WES, Eakin, Lionstone, and AT&T just to name a few? Seems like we should be concerned with filling up those office spaces. We know how hard it is now, imagine how hard it would be with the MTC.

[titanhog]

Wouldn't this development be competing with downtown, ie. WES, Eakin, Lionstone, and AT&T just to name a few? Seems like we should be concerned with filling up those office spaces. We know how hard it is now, imagine how hard it would be with the MTC.

Actually...they're trying to compete with Cool Springs, which DT has had a hard time doing over the last few years.

[Hankster]

I found this on Bidclerk.com today. It calls for the construction of a 2,700,000 Sq Ft business park in Nashville that includes retail. There's no mention of residential. The project is listed as conceptual with a 2009 start date. I'm guessing it's May Town Center. Could it be something else?

http://www.bidclerk.com/project.785324.html

[smeagolsfree]

Good find Hank. I would bet this is Maytown as well. The current zoning and the planned zoning for the area do allow for this project to happen.

I dont think the opponents to this proposal have enough money to fight this for long, much less the support since there are so few residents out this way. In talking to folks who do not live in the area, they pretty much do not care what happens and many are all for it. I think the only way they can stop it or slow it down is an environmental lawsuit of some sort. They have to find an earthworm, snail, or other species that will be impacted even to bring a lawsuit. They may be able to get big money behind them then.

I have mixed feelings, but I feel like it will probably happen regardless of what the folks in that area want, or in this case dont want.