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May Town Center


smeagolsfree

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I wish they could develop MTC in the downtown area as well but can't for certain reasons.

1. The May family owns the land out in the Bells Bend area, but do not own any land around downtown. If they were to do a 4B investment downtown, they'd first have to purchase the very expensive land to do the investment...

2. The type of development Tony Giarratana and the May family are aiming for are companies that do not want to be downtown, but rather in a "corporate campus" where they can have a lot more room to run their business (i.e. Nissan, verizon wireless, etc.)

Basically the MTC is trying to be Cool Springs (where Nissan hdq is), but in Davidson County in order to have big companies working in Davidson County and increasing Davidson County revenue.

In a perfect world I would want all those large companies wanting to work downtown, but most of the very large fortune 500 companies don't want to be enclosed in a downtown so they choose the corporate campus. I don't like that but at least let's have them in Davidson County... in comes May Town Center.

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In the words of DMX: Here we go again. Controversial May Town Project Revived Developer Makes Project Smaller edit: I just say put this thing in one of our dilapidated malls (HH, Ri

May Town Center may just be the most important development contemplated for Nashville right now. Yes, more important than the Convention Center and all the ancillary development that will go with that. Nashville needs May Town Center. This center, if developed as shown in the video, will be a huge magnet for companies wanting to locate and set up corporate headquarters. It could even attract relocations to the area that might not even be contemplated otherwise. I know of no other complex anywhere in the nation. Imagine a trendy, urban setting with beautiful parks, walkable, few cars, surrounded by a 1000 acres of parkland, with thousands of condos and apartments and tons of retail. Imagine the entire area compact, and capable of being walked from end to end, and imagine this development being located a scant 5 miles from downtown Nashville. People would be crazy to choose developing in sprawly, traffic congested Cool Springs if this were an option. May Town Center is a great vision and is a must for Nashville.

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May Town Center may just be the most important development contemplated for Nashville right now. Yes, more important than the Convention Center and all the ancillary development that will go with that. Nashville needs May Town Center. This center, if developed as shown in the video, will be a huge magnet for companies wanting to locate and set up corporate headquarters. It could even attract relocations to the area that might not even be contemplated otherwise. I know of no other complex anywhere in the nation. Imagine a trendy, urban setting with beautiful parks, walkable, few cars, surrounded by a 1000 acres of parkland, with thousands of condos and apartments and tons of retail. Imagine the entire area compact, and capable of being walked from end to end, and imagine this development being located a scant 5 miles from downtown Nashville. People would be crazy to choose developing in sprawly, traffic congested Cool Springs if this were an option. May Town Center is a great vision and is a must for Nashville.

It would be great to see the MTC going with the proposed redevelopment of the East Bank of the Cumberland. The proposed Riverfront Master Plan had many of the same features as the MTC. Maybe not as much park space, but definitely the ability to have corporate campuses (sharing parking with the Titans), retail, residential and high density mixed use development. Together, these could encompass $8B in new development, perhaps happening in concert. They could be linked via water shuttle, interstate, and hopefully some sort of rail or BRT over the bridge to MTC.

Here are a few projects that are comparable in scale and attempted market share. They could be competition for the same corporate tenants. It's interesting to see how other cities are approaching this type of development. Most do not compare to the potential of MTC or the proposed downtown Riverfront Master Plan and redevelopment.

http://www.stapletondenver.com/Redefining-...n-Overview.aspx

http://www.trinityrivervision.org/TRVWeb/A..._Overviews.aspx

http://hoffmantowncenter.com/about.html

http://www.dullestowncenter.com/ppdtcpp.html

http://www.sfcyonkers.com/plan/index.htm

Here is an interesting article on Town Center Development and design:

http://www.co.dane.wi.us/PLANDEV/community...resentation.pdf

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It would be great to see the MTC going with the proposed redevelopment of the East Bank of the Cumberland. The proposed Riverfront Master Plan had many of the same features as the MTC. Maybe not as much park space, but definitely the ability to have corporate campuses (sharing parking with the Titans), retail, residential and high density mixed use development. Together, these could encompass $8B in new development, perhaps happening in concert. They could be linked via water shuttle, interstate, and hopefully some sort of rail or BRT over the bridge to MTC.

I agree. With the projected several hundred thousands population growth in the Nashville MSA by 2025, and MTC only acommodating 40,000 to 45,000 workspaces, both projects would be filled to capacity. If the Riverfront development outdoes May Town, it may slow down the suburban project and protect the land for a while. But if the markets are different, then ultimately neither with hurt the other and Nashville will offer business the best of both worlds.

I think the owners and developers of downtown Nashville commercial space should band together to create a May Town-like vision for downtown, complete with master plan from RTKL or similar and fly-over video knock-em-dead sales pitch, and "internally" fund property acquisition, parking structures that have commercial/retail wraps, a trolley system to convey workers from parking to the office, and even trains out the main spokes to the suburbs. If the parking lot operators won't sell out, condemn their property. If Richard Lawson is right, downtown commercial space will have a ten-bucks-per-square-foot higher asking price with free and convenient parking, which may translate into all the downtown commercial property value increasing better than 50%, repaying all their investments.

If we're going to compare the sizes of MTC and downtown, we should also inquire what downtown can do for itself to compete with MTC without having government 1) spend tax dollars to spruce up downtown to compete or 2) deny the existence of MTC, and by doing so kill off the in-county competition with downtown.

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It would be great to see the MTC going with the proposed redevelopment of the East Bank of the Cumberland. The proposed Riverfront Master Plan had many of the same features as the MTC. Maybe not as much park space, but definitely the ability to have corporate campuses (sharing parking with the Titans), retail, residential and high density mixed use development. Together, these could encompass $8B in new development, perhaps happening in concert. They could be linked via water shuttle, interstate, and hopefully some sort of rail or BRT over the bridge to MTC.

Here are a few projects that are comparable in scale and attempted market share. They could be competition for the same corporate tenants. It's interesting to see how other cities are approaching this type of development. Most do not compare to the potential of MTC or the proposed downtown Riverfront Master Plan and redevelopment.

http://www.stapletondenver.com/Redefining-...n-Overview.aspx

http://www.trinityrivervision.org/TRVWeb/A..._Overviews.aspx

http://hoffmantowncenter.com/about.html

http://www.dullestowncenter.com/ppdtcpp.html

http://www.sfcyonkers.com/plan/index.htm

Here is an interesting article on Town Center Development and design:

http://www.co.dane.wi.us/PLANDEV/community...resentation.pdf

Great post, Michael. Thanks for sharing some of the other vision for corporate relocation and development in other cities. I think the most successful cities of the future will all have developments on this type available. May Town Center will be a great project like these others, but the potential for the East Bank, if included with the full blown island development of the river would be even greater. The cost, however would be enormous, and it will take bold leadership to make it happen. If I had my choice between the two, I would certainly prefer a grand East Bank redevelopment project to May Town Center. I think May Town Center could be accomplished sooner, so that project could become the launching pad a for a bolder, even more dramatic and important project a few years later on the East Bank.

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I kind of look at MTC as MetroCenter II. I'm not a big fan of MetroCenter, but I would say it moderately successful.

Rearding bringing the Bell's bend bridge through Cockril bend: this may be to take advantage of the new Briley Pky / I-40 interchange - which would be relatively useless if the bridge were built further down towards Bellevue.

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Todays Tennessean:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...S0202/807240363

I am still not for this

I do not buy into the May spin on keeping areas rural - if built it will sprawl and nothing can stop it.

Who will build the schools, fire / police halls, etc?

Metro Center would be a nice HQ location for a company

There are way too many unknowns on this

If it gets built, it can't sprawl on the Bend if everything else is in conservation. I don't think that once conversation districts are created the are easily dismantled.

Throwing out the who will pay for this or that, could be used with every new development. If the county wasn't a consolidated government and Scottsboro were an incorporated city, folks there would be dealing with how to increase tax revenue and such to pay for services.

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If it gets built, it can't sprawl on the Bend if everything else is in conservation. I don't think that once conversation districts are created the are easily dismantled.

Throwing out the who will pay for this or that, could be used with every new development. If the county wasn't a consolidated government and Scottsboro were an incorporated city, folks there would be dealing with how to increase tax revenue and such to pay for services.

Has Mr May turned over the rest of the land to a conservation? IMO if MTC gets built the extra land he owns surrounding the build will eventually be developed.

Also, what about all the vacant business property already downtown? (ATT is 1/2 empty now) and business leaving downtown to move to MTC (80% of moved business are internal to Davidson Co - 20% come from outside) so would business just be moving from one plot to another?

Metro is trying to pay for a Convention Center downtown - how can they expect to pay for schools, police, etc in MTC?

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Has Mr May turned over the rest of the land to a conservation? IMO if MTC gets built the extra land he owns surrounding the build will eventually be developed.

Also, what about all the vacant business property already downtown? (ATT is 1/2 empty now) and business leaving downtown to move to MTC (80% of moved business are internal to Davidson Co - 20% come from outside) so would business just be moving from one plot to another?

Metro is trying to pay for a Convention Center downtown - how can they expect to pay for schools, police, etc in MTC?

Yes there is space downtown. That is now. And there always will be space available downtown. The space in MTC would only be built out as demand allows with the office side. Most Nashville office buildings do not start construction without some sort of an anchor tenant. Office developers here are very conservative relative to other markets in speculative office development.

Everyone opposed to MTC act as if the thing will spring up overnight and that 40,000 people will just flood the area. This is a land development. Other developers will be the ones coming in and doing it all. It is shortsighted to say that development should be rejected now because of space downtown being available. It would be several years before an office building would be built out there.

May isn't going to turnover the land to conservation until the zoning is approved. The conservation piece will be protected as part of the zoning. He's not going to turn it over to conservation before all that because if MTC gets shot down, he will just sell the land and some other developer would come with a different plan, which may or may not involve conservation.

Metro isn't paying for the convention center out of the general fund, which is what pays for schools and police. Hotel motel taxes and other tourist related taxes are set for it. There are plenty of folks speculating that taxpayers would have to pay for it but that never proved out with the current convention center.

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From what I understand, they are not wanting to build MTC to compete against downtown, but to compete against Cool Springs and other future "campus" style developments. There are corporations who prefer this type of development and do not want to go downtown. So...this is probably vital for Davidson County to compete with the burbs.

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From what I understand, they are not wanting to build MTC to compete against downtown, but to compete against Cool Springs and other future "campus" style developments. There are corporations who prefer this type of development and do not want to go downtown. So...this is probably vital for Davidson County to compete with the burbs.

Exactly. Nashville needs this development. Otherwise, the vast majority of all new development will continue sprawling outward into Cool Springs and beyond. And each time that happens, Nashville loses the potential tax revenues that instead go to the suburban counties. If you support not building MTC, then you are supporting sprawl, more highway congestion, the loss of tens of thousands of acres of rural lands in surrounding counties and an overall lowering of the quality of life throughout the entire Nashville area.

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Exactly. Nashville needs this development. Otherwise, the vast majority of all new development will continue sprawling outward into Cool Springs and beyond. And each time that happens, Nashville loses the potential tax revenues that instead go to the suburban counties. If you support not building MTC, then you are supporting sprawl, more highway congestion, the loss of tens of thousands of acres of rural lands in surrounding counties and an overall lowering of the quality of life throughout the entire Nashville area.

^on that note: meanwhile, it looks like Cool Springs may be getting the Westin we never got.

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For a city trying to rediscover its downtown, this would be a terribly dangerous project to pursue. It would totally alter the focus of Nashville away from revitalizing its urban core to urban sprawl. Whenever you have a guy like Eric Crafton signing on then you probably know it's not a good idea. I believe the Metro Planning Commission is wise enough to understand the absurdity of the May Town Center Proposal, but I'm not sure many members of the Council do.

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I believe the Metro Planning Commission is wise enough to understand the absurdity of the May Town Center Proposal, but I'm not sure many members of the Council do.

Please explain said "absurdity" of May Town?

Please explain "sprawl"?

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Exactly. Nashville needs this development. Otherwise, the vast majority of all new development will continue sprawling outward into Cool Springs and beyond. And each time that happens, Nashville loses the potential tax revenues that instead go to the suburban counties. If you support not building MTC, then you are supporting sprawl, more highway congestion, the loss of tens of thousands of acres of rural lands in surrounding counties and an overall lowering of the quality of life throughout the entire Nashville area.

Wow, that's one slippery slope you're sliding down there Hankster. Care to connect the dots in that great, unsubstantiated chain of causation or are we supposed to just swallow it whole?

That's like saying, if you don't support the war in Iraq, then you support oil dictators. Or, if you vote for Obama, America will become a fundamentalist Islamic state and our women will have to wear veils and baby seals will be clubbed to death. Huh?

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Wow, that's one slippery slope you're sliding down there Hankster. Care to connect the dots in that great, unsubstantiated chain of causation or are we supposed to just swallow it whole?

That's like saying, if you don't support the war in Iraq, then you support oil dictators. Or, if you vote for Obama, America will become a fundamentalist Islamic state and our women will have to wear veils and baby seals will be clubbed to death. Huh?

I don't consider what I'm saying a slippery slope at all. I think what has happened over the past several decades provides substantiation to my statements.

Let's look at it this way. If Nashville does not come up with a truly attractive alternative to Cool Springs and other surburban office development areas, then we will most likely continue to see the the majority of new office, retail and housing developed outside Davidson County just as been happening for the last twenty years or so. I think few will argue that these surburban office developments contribute to sprawl in a big, big way. If Nashville were to be successful in attracting these companies back inside Davidson County, that would help put the breaks on this trend and help to reduce future sprawl. These companies are looking for value, and a high quality of life in the areas in which they locate. MTC can offer this, but downtown Nashville and areas near downtown may not. Costs will always be higher there, and crime and other inner city ills may always be a perceived threat, whether real or not.

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if you call hankster's reply a slippery slope, you should include the may town opposition's argument one as well. while hankster talked about things that have already happened, the opposition is stating things that have not happened, and will not happen due to the buffer zone that are in the plans for may town center. the truth is, nashville HAS lost jobs due to competition in the surrounding counties. hardly a slippery slope.

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I don't consider what I'm saying a slippery slope at all. I think what has happened over the past several decades provides substantiation to my statements.

Let's look at it this way. If Nashville does not come up with a truly attractive alternative to Cool Springs and other surburban office development areas, then we will most likely continue to see the the majority of new office, retail and housing developed outside Davidson County just as been happening for the last twenty years or so. I think few will argue that these surburban office developments contribute to sprawl in a big, big way. If Nashville were to be successful in attracting these companies back inside Davidson County, that would help put the breaks on this trend and help to reduce future sprawl. These companies are looking for value, and a high quality of life in the areas in which they locate. MTC can offer this, but downtown Nashville and areas near downtown may not. Costs will always be higher there, and crime and other inner city ills may always be a perceived threat, whether real or not.

Nashville has had locations to attracted HQ's in the past 20 yrs - Metro Center is the main one - some came, most left.

You mentioned "Value of life" and I would argue that Williamson Co offers much more than Davidson Co does (crime, schools, shopping)

Not only are compainies looking at a building to move into but what the County offers - Williamson Co is perceived to have much better schools than Davidson Co. What "incentives" does Williamson Co offer over Davidson Co?

Also, look at where the bridge might go - Cenntinnal Blvd - prisions and industry which may bring crime over or make the MTC less desirable to reach

I do not see this as simple as "build it they will come" type of mentality.

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Also, look at where the bridge might go - Cenntinnal Blvd - prisions and industry which may bring crime over or make the MTC less desirable to reach

how would the bridge bring crime because it's close to a prison? i would think that would be the safest place to build a bridge. they are locked up. i could say that the bells bend area scares me because it's wooded and "rural", therefore it might be full of methlabs. we need to focus on facts instead of fears.

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First - a link to a story in todays Tennessean:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...T0301/807280319

Suzilla - MTC is advertised as being more upscale, corp HQ type of place. If you recall when MTC first advertised it linked in names like Belle Meade, West Meade, ave income within 5 miles, etc. Having the ONLY bridge directly to MTC coming from Cenntennial Blvd does not fit the "image" Yeah the prisioners are locked up but...still not too attractive entrance to the new downtown.

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First - a link to a story in todays Tennessean:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...T0301/807280319

Suzilla - MTC is advertised as being more upscale, corp HQ type of place. If you recall when MTC first advertised it linked in names like Belle Meade, West Meade, ave income within 5 miles, etc. Having the ONLY bridge directly to MTC coming from Cenntennial Blvd does not fit the "image" Yeah the prisioners are locked up but...still not too attractive entrance to the new downtown.

that article does make a good point. that is until you realize that downtown still does not have the campus style office space that corporations are wanting more and more of. those spaces lie outside of the city, along with the jobs and taxes that come with it. why blame may town center for something that cool springs is already doing and has been doing for the past 10 years? at least may town center would provide those jobs and taxes within the city, which correct me if i'm wrong, would actually help the downtown area. it's just another use of fear by the opposition.

i still find it hard to believe that a company would not want to move to an area simply because they have to drive by a prison. just look at the thousands of people who drive everyday by the scrapyard on 24 everyday.

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I can see it now.. the news headline reads.. "Extreme Makeover: City Edition, Bells Bend residents help demo blighted areas for new location of May Town Center."

But seriously.. I think the big issue here that is not being discussed in all of this is... regionalization.

All this talk of counties competing against other counties for new office relocations.. we need campus style offices in Davidson... etc etc... what we really need to be talking about is how to get the counties to help one another, for the better of the entire region as a whole. None of the articles that i've read regarding May Town Center ever touch this subject, but it's really at the heart and soul of it.

If we had better collaboration between counties, we could better compete with other cities across the nation.. and provide regional planning for things such as mass transit, which we all want. I'm no expert on this, by any means, but it sounds like a better focus of our time and energy than focusing on competition between counties.

Once an answer is figured out for the topic of regionalization, then we can talk about whether or not May Town Center is a necessity...

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First - a link to a story in todays Tennessean:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...T0301/807280319

Suzilla - MTC is advertised as being more upscale, corp HQ type of place. If you recall when MTC first advertised it linked in names like Belle Meade, West Meade, ave income within 5 miles, etc. Having the ONLY bridge directly to MTC coming from Cenntennial Blvd does not fit the "image" Yeah the prisioners are locked up but...still not too attractive entrance to the new downtown.

I agree completely, and have said as much several times in this thread. However, a bridge to the airport that doubles as construction access is necessary, so it makes sense that it gets proposed and constructed first. Hopefully, prospective clients will see beyond the immediate surroundings and the school redistricting wars that are about to start.

It is my contention that if the MTC developers can get their first bridge built and get the first couple million square feet leased, the politicians and power brokers that have either been on the fence or absent from the discussion will swiftly board the bandwagon. Once MTC is perceived as successful, though, politicians willl approve and fund a bridge through the Wallmart if need be to get access to the 37205 and 37221 areas.

May Town's weakness is not environmental damage and it's not the additional burden on county services (the oppositions's stances on those issues would result in MUCH much worse problems). It's the lack of access to space in county to put 35,000 more dwellings. Bellevue has space that can be accessed from Old Hickory Boulevard, but the Cockril Bend bridge empties closest to Scottsboro where homes on two acre lots will wipe out Northwest Davidson. There's not much flat land up there. It's the city's job to plan for expansion, and tens of thousands of dwellings will be needed each decade to absorb projected growth, even without MTC. If I were in planning, I'd welcome the opportunity to know where a good portion of that growth will be for certain.

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