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Upstate Growth... We could look like Atlanta by 2030


RestedTraveler

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The Southern Connector only opens up southwestern Greenville County to more sprawl. Period. That road will not be visionary because it will cause more of the same crappy development that is already going on in other parts of the Upstate. Thats why I'm always speaking out against new interstates. Its proven- well proven- that they don't solve transportation problems. They just create them.
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I think your last comment there is right on target breed. People need to show support for these things. Its ironic that people have less interest in their local government even though its the one that closest to them.

Interstates in and of themselves are not evil. However, my problems with interstates is that we, as a state and as a nation, rely heavily on them and on a highway system that is dedicated to one single transportation option: the automobile: as the only way to address congestion and growth. We essentially rely on interstates as the only "mass transportation" and perceive it as a way to improve congestion. Was that not one of the many reasons that the Southern Connector was built- so people in Mauldin and growing places south of there would have a congestion-free way to get downtown? Was the Southern Connector not also built to stimulate growth in southwestern Greenville County? Why type of growth has happened, and why type

What I want to see is a transportation system in the Upstate (and all of South Carolina) that makes traveling possible without a car. This would involve improving transit, but also addressing the way we are building our cities (and rebuilding them). This would have to be done in conjunction with building more housing opportunities in cities and in concentrated urban nodes. I'm not talking about huge buildings all over. Why not use all of our wonderful, historic mill villages as a base for urban nodes? They are all over the Upstate.

I think I'm the lone weirdo hear. The sprawl doesn't bother me too much, but I hate going to downtown Atlanta because of the tall buildings. Makes me feel like I'm in a canyon of glass, steel, and concrete.
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And how we truly are ruining the earth, and how Europeans are laughing at us spending so much of our lives in our cars bumper to bumper, choking on each other's exhaust fumes while they so quickly get where they need to go with high-speed rail, or by walking just down the street for everything they need. By "we" I mean Americans. South Carolinians still have time to prevent the degree of gridlock large American metros have brought on themselves, if we will only wake up and stop thinking that forests being ripped down to make way for shopping centers is a good thing, or an exciting thing, or even a necessary growth-accommodating thing.

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I think that since you are a member of UP, you are more likely to understand those costs. 90% of people out there don't. They just live their lives because thats the only way to do it. THAT is the problem with sprawl. It is the ONLY option for most people. Particularly in SC. If the options for a non-suburban lifestyle don't exist, how can anyone say that is the best way?

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Man, people really get upset here when someone says it doesn't bother them. By blessings I mean I enjoy having all of this stuff. Its better than living somewhere thats dead and has nothing going on. Everything won't be perfect and complaining won't fix anything, so I just choose to enjoy the amenties. Thats why we have different choices of where to live in this country. If a person doesn't like something they don't have to deal with it. I don't live up north because I like whats in the south. I moved from my hometown because it was dead in the aspect of amenties but was loaded with drugs. Not trying to upset anyone, but this is just my opinion and where I choose to live. Its just doesn't bother me. Simpsonville is growing on Georgia Rd. and I love it! I'm glad more stuff is coming closer to me, although I still love traveling a few minutes north to the city when I want.

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Its a pattern we see across cities all throughout America. Sprawl will happen and suburban cities of the main core city will grow a lot by themselves when given the right kinds of stimulus(Greenville). mauldin and greer are demonstrating this all too well. Sure it would be great if we had some kind of transit in place but I dont see that happening for quite sometime and by that time we will probably be at a state of gridlock on the interstate highway.Oh and one more thing. I went to canada last year and was really impressed by how their cities are so much denser. Toronto was great! I think it has to do with the cold so people dont want to be as far out from their jobs.

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"There is also a different attitude towards density and transportation in Europe. They don't have the stereotypical "dream" that involves a detached house with a white picked fence, 2 cars, 2 kids, a dog, cat and a goldfish. "

True. Americans want and expect different things than Europeans. Plus, there are geographical difference. What works well in Europe could very well be a failure here, and vice versa.

That's not saying either one is a bad thing. Just completely different environments/paradigms.

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Europeans also pay super high taxes, have socialized medicine, and generally have less freedom than we have here. There are always tradeoffs. So let's stop viewing the European way of life as better than ours. That way of thinking by politicians will ruin America.

With that said, we certainly need to improve on things. Suburbia is not bad. Neither is someone who wants a larger house or a yard. That is necessary, and I do not criticize people for wanting that. But those developments should not come at the expense of dense, urban infill. The good thing about the South is that much of our "sprawl" leaves room for quality urban infill. Greenville has tons of areas ripe for quality infill developments, created as a result of suburbs moving farther out from the city's core. That is where I would like for the city to focus its efforts. Over time, that urban infill will create a very large urban core that edges up to what are currently suburban neighborhoods.

Rather than telling people that they can't have a gated neighborhood or cul-de-sac 10 miles from downtown, city leaders should start by proposing denser urban development in the corridors that are more intown that have been abandoned. I think citizens would respond favorably to that, not because they understand urban infill but because they would like the idea of revitalization. We have wonderful opportunities for that, but it would require some more public-private partnerships as well as some risks being taken by a few investors to get the ball rolling. Heck, urban nodes of development along the proposed BRT line would make a huge difference. Laurens Road, are you listening? :)

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One that you didn't mention, although it may not be direct, but it does tie to the European comparison... homeownership. Homeownership rates are much higher in the United States than in Europe for two reasons: it's more affordable and it's subsidized. Homeownership provides a level of economic freedom that people in many other countries have a difficult time attaining. Of course, you could argue that other countries have stronger social policies to help offset the negatives of not owning a home (socialized medicine, stronger welfare programs, etc.) But overall, I'd say that high ownerships levels homeownership have to be considered a positive. I think the argument could be made that without cheaper housing being built in the suburbs, that wouldn't be likely to occur.
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Europeans also pay super high taxes, have socialized medicine, and generally have less freedom than we have here. There are always tradeoffs. So let's stop viewing the European way of life as better than ours. That way of thinking by politicians will ruin America.

With that said, we certainly need to improve on things. Suburbia is not bad. Neither is someone who wants a larger house or a yard. That is necessary, and I do not criticize people for wanting that. But those developments should not come at the expense of dense, urban infill. The good thing about the South is that much of our "sprawl" leaves room for quality urban infill. Greenville has tons of areas ripe for quality infill developments, created as a result of suburbs moving farther out from the city's core. That is where I would like for the city to focus its efforts. Over time, that urban infill will create a very large urban core that edges up to what are currently suburban neighborhoods.

Rather than telling people that they can't have a gated neighborhood or cul-de-sac 10 miles from downtown, city leaders should start by proposing denser urban development in the corridors that are more intown that have been abandoned. I think citizens would respond favorably to that, not because they understand urban infill but because they would like the idea of revitalization. We have wonderful opportunities for that, but it would require some more public-private partnerships as well as some risks being taken by a few investors to get the ball rolling. Heck, urban nodes of development along the proposed BRT line would make a huge difference. Laurens Road, are you listening? :)

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I'll also point out that home ownership should only be given to those who can afford it. Its true that there are benefits to society when home ownership is high- to a point. Our current housing market is a direct result of lending companies giving false hopes to people who couldn't afford homes.
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Arguments always turn to the extremes of both arguments. No one is saying everyone should live in skyscrapers & ride streetcars - but a balance must be maintained. Rather than arguing over transit (which I don't think the Upstate is ready for any comprehensive transit system yet), talk about HOV lanes. Rather than arguing over high density, talk about mixed use. Rather than arguing over what development "should" be like, talk about what you want to maintain. Everyone wants clean air, clean water, preserving nature, being able to walk / bicycle to destinations, less car congestion - talk about what is necessary to provide those ideals.

I think once people learn to stop chastising one another & realize we all have common goals - resolutions are a lot easier. It is completely reasonable for the Upstate to continue to have the suburban / exurban charms yet also be more environmentally sensitive than it is going in the direction of. No one wants the pastural mountains sides of northern Greenville County or the rolling hills of Spartanburg County to look like Gwinnett County outside of Atlanta.

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