Foray 48B

[uptownliving]

As you see it says the acids in the digestive systems... so, looks like you are MISTAKEN. As are any others who actually believe there will be no detrimental effects from spraying poison over popluated areas. I live in the spray zone and am absolutely against being sprayed without my consent. $2.6 million would buy and upkeep plenty of non toxic to human tree bands.

[Spartan]

Ok, I'm getting the impression that not many people looked at the map that I linked to earlier, so here is the spray zone from the City's PDF I linked to on the first page. The colors are council districts within the city.

[I CARE]

Not enough Charlotte private property owners are banding their trees to bring the cankerworm population down. The City can only band the trees in the public right of way along the streets. The rest of it is up to private property owners which obviously didn't get the job done as the cankerworm has grown exponentially.

For example the City can band a tree along the road but if the adjacent private property owner doesn't band their trees and the cankerworms crawl to the top...then it is very easy for them to jump right over to the tree next door that was banded.

If you do find some research to refute what the city says about Foray48B please do post it here. But it looks to me like you have an uphill battle since the contract for this spraying will be coming before City Council in a matter of days and it doesn't look to me like any of them will be voting against it.

[I CARE]

Ok, I'm getting the impression that not many people looked at the map that I linked to earlier, so here is the spray zone from the City's PDF I linked to on the first page. The colors are council districts within the city.

[uptownliving]

I have found so much but this seems to be the most comprehensive: http://www.peoplesinquiry.co.nz/component/...tpage/Itemid,1/

I can only say again this is an irresponsible plan and it needs to be stopped. I have no idea how to go about doing so and feel I am spinning my wheels.

[monsoon]

^It's nice that you are not worried, but lets keep in mind that does not diminish the worries and concerns listed here by those who actually do live in the area to be sprayed and who have medical issues that might be worsened by this spraying. As far as trusting the government, they just did the biggest meat recall in history because the government wasn't doing its job in protecting the people and apparently dirty nasty meat made it into the supply including the schools here operated by CMS. If they can't keep hamburgers safe I am not sure why there is confidence they know what is going on with this spraying.

[Spartan]

Lets be fair to both sides here. Its also worth noting that many people may not be worried about it. I'm guessing 2/3 or so of the City Council lives within that spray zone. We can all take comfort in knowing that if something happens to us it will happen to them too.

Also, you're talking about the federal government (bloated bureaucracy) versus a local government (less bloated bureaucracy). I would generally trust our current local government over the current federal government---- thats just me though. These people live and work here just like all of us, so one would assume they would be less inclined to do something that would hurt themselves and their livelihood, including researching things like pesticides to make sure they will not harm the population of Charlotte.

[uptownliving]

I can only say again this is an irresponsible plan and it needs to be stopped. I have no idea how to go about doing so and feel I am spinning my wheels.

[Batou]

I was watching News14 and they were talking about this and I think I saw this exact topic in the video.

http://news14.com/content/local_news/charl...ts/Default.aspx

[uptownliving]

I was watching News14 and they were talking about this and I think I saw this exact topic in the video.

http://news14.com/content/local_news/charl...ts/Default.aspx

[I CARE]

in one of the many reports I have read it said that while one specific substance was safe, what happens is it grows and then turns into another substance and yes in humans, and yes this is toxic. Always with the technicalities and loopholes. My eyes are crossing from all of this, I am contacting everyone I can and hope others will also. I think it is a reasonable expectation to look into this further before taking a risk on such a scale. Did you see the comment by the arborist that this will be a watered down version of the spray?!

I am also going to try to make some kind of arrangement to be out of town if this ends up happening, while it is happening and for a time afterwards. I do not have unlimited resources, this will be a huge task as I will not leave my family to be exposed even though they are not in the health state I am. Good luck to all.

[monsoon]

^The sad thing about this entire matter is there is plenty of evidence that it won't make any difference in the infestation. In fact spraying has made the problem worse in some places.

[I CARE]

Ok, today I am spending my time contacting many different agencies. I have discovered there is a North Carolina Pesticide Board, some articles I have read showed great uproar over agricultural spraying drifting into poplated areas and that there are all sorts of rules and possibly permits that must be obtained. Who here thinks the City Council have as yet followed any rules? Remember we are talking about the Charlotte City Council before you answer.

I have not yet contacted the NCPB but here is the website http://www.ncagr.com/SPCAP/pesticides/Authorit.htm should anyone else wish to attempt to complain or find out any information.

The more I think about this, research and speak with other people the more I believe this is a mistake and should be stopped. I hope others will get involved before it is too late. It isn't the end of the world if the spraying is not done and other options are seriously and consistently applied. Maybe after this some of the people who can do something but choose not to will take it more seriously also. Maybe not. The risks outweigh any real or imagined benefit and those people who are not worried should really think about other's who have reason to be concerned.

One last thing, I was perfectly healthy, a non smoker, active, young and successful before an illness and several things gone wrong at once (a perfect storm of illness) left me with chronic non operable lung disease, this could happen to anyone, don't add to the risk factors lightly.

[I CARE]

For anyone not worried about this spray campaign please read the following : http://www.nosprayzone.org/articles/Giuliano/index.html

For anyone already worried but not ready to do anything proactive please read the following :

http://www.nosprayzone.org/articles/Giuliano/index.html

For anyone with any common sense and logic who wants to help stop this madness please read the following and DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS!! It is not too late until the spray is actually sprayed, please help.

http://www.nosprayzone.org/articles/Giuliano/index.html

I drove around today and verified for myself what I had already noticed, there aren't any bands out of the Meyer's Park, Dilworth, outer uptown around Presby and those general areas. I do not live in those areas yet I am to be sprayed. I do not know a Willow Oak from any other oak. If the other trees around the spray area are not Willow Oaks, why are they being sprayed. If they are Willow Oaks, why are they not banded? This is public and private property with no bands. I know there is a matching grant program for banding but basically I have never been told any of my trees should be banded, have never seen any of these pesky canker worms either. All of this is irrelevant, the spray is dangerous, spraying pesticides on people is irresponsible. If the city can arbitrarily decide it has the authority to spray people without their consent, why can they not decide to "make" people band their trees? For the money it wants to spend on this fiasco it could just do it, pay for the bands and the labor!

and yes, I grow my own vegetables. see the following excerpt http://www.safe2use.com/ca-ipm/00-04-20.htm : Foray 48B is not for agricultural use and it is quite clear (from the label) that any resident near the spray or 'drift' zones growing vegetables, should NOT consume them and use caution handling them when throwing them away.

In the mid 1970's DOH was forced to state that data failed to show a causal link between 2,4,5-T and human birth defects. Just as now with Foray 48B, there is no supporting data. The data on DDT did show-up later and there is no evidence to suggest that it will not show up down the road on this Foray 48B product. Since no long-term studies on exposed populations have yet been done, prudence and common sense should reign when we consider the Public Health. The common sense thing for our Public Health officials to do is say that this is not acceptable

Do I sound upset?

[monsoon]

The vast majority of the really large trees in that area are willow oaks. These are the ones with small narrow leaves. Most people don't realize that when these places were built they were basically stripped of all vegetation, the homes and roads built, and then trees planted. Unfortunately they limited themselves to just a few species of tree and that made the area very susceptible to the epidemic that we have now. The other problem of course are these tress are reaching the end of their lifespan and this makes the problem worse. The canopy in this area also sustained a great deal of damage from Hugo almost 20 years ago which compromised a lot of these trees.

The city is trying to mitigate this imbalance with bands and chemical sprays but in the end most of these tress are all going to die at the same time anyway. I say let nature run its course and replace the stricken trees with a better balance of species so future generations won't have to deal with this problem.

[I CARE]

I have to agree that nature should take its course. I have read that the remaining moths will produce just as many egg masses after the spray. From what I have read about the moths, they aren't really "killing" any trees. Bugs eat leaves, trees produce more leaves... people are so stupid. These idiots are crying because it isn't as picture perfect and unblemished pretty as they imagine it should be. Why do people seem to think the world and everything in it is put here for there particular exploitation and enjoyment and should stay the same because they want it to? Not to get into a whole nother arena but most of these people probably consider themselves Christians, well, it isn't natural and amounts to them trying to play God. God made the buggies and the trees etc... That this whole folly is over nothing but esthetics is mindboggling.

This is so frustating, if I could just up and move, I truly would. The air here is awful anyway, the summer ozone season is a killer but if I could have already left, I would have before this. Don't they think pollution has an effect on their precious trees?

from another article: http://www.safe2use.com/ca-ipm/00-04-20.htm

Any one who still believes the spin doctors when they tell us that Foray 48B is harmless to humans, should consider the following: Health and Welfare Canada report that 370 pesticides, once deemed "safe" (officially) have been removed from the market over the last 10 years, indicating that many pesticides currently in use will meet the same fate in future.

[Spartan]

I don't really react to scare tactics very well, and I think many people here will resent your claims against our intelligence. Your articles still show that most people just get skin irritation, burning, swelling, and redness from exposure. I would assume that site is extremely biased, given its title. So I think its safe to presume she uses the most extreme cases to make her point.

I'll add that I found the following, which are taken from respected academic journals.

Field efficacy and deposit analysis of Bacillus thuringiensis , Foray 48B, against gypsy moth (Lepidoptera: Lymantriidae).

Dubois, NR; Reardon, RC; Mierzejewski, K

Journal of Economic Entomology [J. ECON. ENTOMOL.]. Vol. 86, no. 1, pp. 26-33. 1993.

Four aerial treatments of Bacillus thuringiensis (Foray 48B) were evaluated against gypsy moth, Lymantria dispar L., infestations to determine their field efficacy and foliar deposits. From an initial average density of 2,000 egg masses per ha (EM/ha), gypsy moth populations in the untreated (control) blocks increased to 6570 EM/ha. At a dose of 30 Billion International Units of insecticidal activity per hectare (BIU/ha) applied in 2.3 and in 7.0 liters, the populations decreased significantly to 337 EM/ha (95% control) and to 280 EM/ha (96% control), respectively. At 60 BIU/4.6 and at 90 BIU/7.0 liters/ha, they decreased to 1175 EM/ha (89% control) and to 50 EM/ha (99% control), respectively.

Identification of Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. kurstaki Strain HD1-Like Bacteria from Environmental and Human Samples after Aerial Spraying of Victoria, British Columbia, Canada, with Foray 48B

Giovana Valadares de Amorim, Beatrixe Whittome, Benjamin Shore, and David B. Levin*

Department of Biology, University of Victoria, Victoria, British Columbia V8W 3N5, Canada

In their review of human and laboratory data, McClintock et al. (22) concluded that B. thuringiensis subspecies are neither toxic nor pathogenic to mammals, including humans. Animal experimentation, however, has shown that intraperitoneal injection of B. thuringiensis can cause death in guinea pigs (14) and that pulmonary infection can result in the deaths of immunocompromised mice (18).

[[so in laymen's terms they injected the rodents with large dosages directly into their abdomens, which cased them to die. go figure, huh?]]

Despite this exposure, however, the human health surveillance program failed to detect any correlation between the aerial application of B. thuringiensis subsp. kurstaki HD1 and short-term health effects in the general adult population, in emergency room visits, or in aggravation of asthma symptoms in children. While B. thuringiensis subsp. kurstaki HD1-like bacteria were detected in the nares of the human population, the available evidence suggests that its presence was transient, as clinical symptoms of active nasal-pharyngeal infection were not reported. Overall, the human health surveillance program did not detect any short-term change in health status that could be associated with the aerial application of Foray 48B.

----

Now, I'll also add that I'm not generally in favor of gassing the general population of ANY city, but I believe there is sufficient evidence that shows this stuff is not going to cause us any harm.

[1979Heel]

I have to agree that nature should take its course. I have read that the remaining moths will produce just as many egg masses after the spray. From what I have read about the moths, they aren't really "killing" any trees. Bugs eat leaves, trees produce more leaves... people are so stupid. These idiots are crying because it isn't as picture perfect and unblemished pretty as they imagine it should be. Why do people seem to think the world and everything in it is put here for there particular exploitation and enjoyment and should stay the same because they want it to? Not to get into a whole nother arena but most of these people probably consider themselves Christians, well, it isn't natural and amounts to them trying to play God. God made the buggies and the trees etc... That this whole folly is over nothing but esthetics is mindboggling.

This is so frustating, if I could just up and move, I truly would. The air here is awful anyway, the summer ozone season is a killer but if I could have already left, I would have before this. Don't they think pollution has an effect on their precious trees?

from another article: http://www.safe2use.com/ca-ipm/00-04-20.htm

Any one who still believes the spin doctors when they tell us that Foray 48B is harmless to humans, should consider the following: Health and Welfare Canada report that 370 pesticides, once deemed "safe" (officially) have been removed from the market over the last 10 years, indicating that many pesticides currently in use will meet the same fate in future.

[4til4]

From the charmeck site:

Aerial Spraying

The spray we will use contains Bt, a naturally occurring substance used for decades by organic farmers and gardeners. This natural control, which reacts with the acids found in the digestive systems of cankerworms, has no adverse affects on humans, honeybees, pets, wildlife, fish or groundwater. The spraying must be done in the early spring when a large number of cankerworms are hatched and feeding at the tops of our trees.

As you see it says the acids in the digestive systems... so, looks like you are MISTAKEN. As are any others who actually believe there will be no detrimental effects from spraying poison over popluated areas. I live in the spray zone and am absolutely against being sprayed without my consent. $2.6 million would buy and upkeep plenty of non toxic to human tree bands.

[monsoon]

Stop making this a battle of the links.

[I CARE]

Well, I am going to leave and after it is all said and done I guess we will see. I still believe the spraying is a mistake. I will not be upset if I am wrong, that would be a wonderful thing. Best of luck to all and at least take precautions, better safe than sorry.

[I CARE]

Well, I was leaving this well enough alone and today received my water bill with a neat little notice in it.... I'd love to hear what any of you have to say about this saccharin presentation

[Spartan]

Could you share what the notice says for those of us that don't get water bills via CMU?

[I CARE]

It says: (all bolds in green)

Thank you for helping band our trees this fall, an important first step in controlling the fall cankerworm population.

Even with Charlotte's best efforts, the fall cankerworm populations are still high enought to endanger our trees. With the support of the City Council, the City recomments a second step in the infested areas- aerial spraying.

The substance used in the aerial spraying is Bt, a naturally occurring substance used by organic farmers and gardeners for decades. This natural control has no adverse affects on humans, honey bees, pets, wildlife, fish or groundwater.

Bt will be sprayed in early spring (late March/early April). Exact dates will be determined by local weather conditions and the hatching of the cankerworms. The City will work with the local media to notify residents when the spraying will ocur. To receive cankerworm updates, visit cankerwork.charmeck.org and sign up for the Notify Me service. You can also call 311 in late March for more specific spraying dates.

[Spartan]

I don't see what the big deal is?