Foray 48B

[Raintree21]

They're giving everyone notice of the impending spraying. No big deal.

[I CARE]

its already been admitted that certain people would be sensitive... yet they are trying to stress this "natural control" will have NO adverse effects on any thing or any one. This is not a naturally occurring substance, so here we have basically major propaganda to serve their short sighted purpose. Oh well, I forgot there is just no honesty among thieves and the City Council are exactly that.

Apparently there is a time frame to get the munching little buggers and weather conditions must be just right so I say let it rain.

I wonder who's brother or in-law got the contract to spray? And how much over budget will it go?!

I don't know why I expect more from the most superficial place I have ever seen. I lived in Santa Monica for several years, I thought I had seen a lot. Charlotte is like one great big anal HOA

[monsoon]

It's interesting the city's spin on this stuff. Black mold is "naturally occurring" but I wouldn't want any in my house. It is an irrelevant platitude designed to make people think this stuff is indeed safe. The fact remains that without any independent verification on what the manufacturer has sold the city, and the fact that other countries that actually put the needs of the people before big business have banned it, I would think the city is doing a big disservice to it's people by spraying this substance on people's property. Of course they didn't ask for the citizen's permission to perform this aerial spraying and are just going to do it, and we are to take the corporation's word this stuff won't hurt you. Years ago they were spraying DDT in the environment and that wasn't supposed to hurt anyone, and millions ended up with cancer decades later because of it.

[I CARE]

From the City website also:

Will the spray affect my children? There have been no known affects of the aerial spraying of Bt around children. <LI>Should I bring my children inside during the spray? You are welcome to do that, but it is not required. <LI>Will the spray affect my pets? There have been no known affects of the aerial spraying of Bt around animals or fish. <LI>Should I bring my pets inside during the spray? You are welcome to do that, but it is not required

What fantasy fluffy cloud dream world do these people live in?

[Spartan]

^The one where scientific studies have regularly shown that it is not harmful to people, maybe?

[monsoon]

^The one where scientific studies have regularly shown that it is not harmful to people, maybe?

[Spartan]

Yeah its true that they don't tell us all of the ingredients. I can't argue with you there. I am just going on the previously quoted studies that show whatever they use is not enough to be harmful.

[I CARE]

Yeah its true that they don't tell us all of the ingredients. I can't argue with you there. I am just going on the previously quoted studies that show whatever they use is not enough to be harmful.

[uptownliving]

Anyone who wants to know the ingredient list of Foray 48B just has to go to the link that I CARE provided a while back. Most of the chemicals in Foray 48B are also used in cosmetics that people apply to their face everyday in this country in doses much more concentrated that it would be physically possible to get from this spray. The EPA,FDA, and NC Goverment know the full ingredient list of Foray 48B and have listed every ingredient as "Generally Accepted as Safe" This chemical has been sprayed for decades now over populated areas. If it caused serious problems to humans then it would have popped up by now.

You can buy BT worm killer at Home Depot, Lowes, and most any garden store for personal use.

This spray is a one time deal. Whatever harm this spray might cause is minuscule compared to the harm caused by daily air pollution that we breath in spewed out by the cars we drive.

[monsoon]

......

.....Whatever harm this spray might cause is minuscule compared to the harm caused by daily air pollution that we breath in spewed out by the cars we drive.

[uptownliving]

I base this on my personal experience of the previous 2 sprays here in Charlotte which I was here for. I also base it on all the vegtibables I have eaten that were sprayed with Foray48B which I have had no health effects from. And lastly I based it on the mutliple government studies of this spary and its effects on the population.

Personally I think the greater public safety risk from this spraying will be from the low flying aircraft that will have very little time to correct anything that might go wrong while flying and will have an increased chance of crashing.

[monsoon]

^OK so your claim that it is safe (presumably for everyone) is based solely on the fact that you have not gotten sick from eating vegetables sprayed with pesticides and/or you were not affected by the last, much smaller sprays. That probably would not pass much scientific muster, but as we say here everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I will point out the advice that everyone is to wash their vegetables before eating them and of course this stuff can't be used on produce labeled organic. (which I prefer these days) Unfortunately for homeowners they can't wash the air and I would say that it will be close to impossible to remove this stuff from your property once sprayed.

[uptownliving]

Actually Foray 48B is allowed to be sprayed on Organic crops. It is one of a handful of approved sprays for Organic Farmers. So all that stuff that is bought at the Farmers Market or local Grocery and is labeled "Organic" was likely sprayed with Foray 48B.

As I posted earlier multiple governments have studied this spray and its affects on the general population and so far have found nothing of significance for health issues.

I agree with the Ombudsman report that I CARE posted earlier where they stated that if the company would publically list out all the ingredients of Foray 48B then a lot of the hysteria over the spray could be avoided. However that list is publically available on the internet for anyone that cares to take the time to educate themselves.

[I CARE]

Actually Foray 48B is allowed to be sprayed on Organic crops. It is one of a handful of approved sprays for Organic Farmers. So all that stuff that is bought at the Farmers Market or local Grocery and is labeled "Organic" was likely sprayed with Foray 48B.

As I posted earlier multiple governments have studied this spray and its affects on the general population and so far have found nothing of significance for health issues.

I agree with the Ombudsman report that I CARE posted earlier where they stated that if the company would publically list out all the ingredients of Foray 48B then a lot of the hysteria over the spray could be avoided. However that list is publically available on the internet for anyone that cares to take the time to educate themselves.

[Raintree21]

^OK so your claim that it is safe (presumably for everyone) is based solely on the fact that you have not gotten sick from eating vegetables sprayed with pesticides and/or you were not affected by the last, much smaller sprays. That probably would not pass much scientific muster, but as we say here everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I will point out the advice that everyone is to wash their vegetables before eating them and of course this stuff can't be used on produce labeled organic. (which I prefer these days) Unfortunately for homeowners they can't wash the air and I would say that it will be close to impossible to remove this stuff from your property once sprayed.

[monsoon]

Actually Foray 48B is allowed to be sprayed on Organic crops. It is one of a handful of approved sprays for Organic Farmers. So all that stuff that is bought at the Farmers Market or local Grocery and is labeled "Organic" was likely sprayed with Foray 48B......

[Raintree21]

They will be spraying 68,000 acres of the city which is more than twice the amount they did in the past.

[monsoon]

^I misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry about that.

[geekUSA1981]

I also basically knew but did some more checking and in fact the leaves the caterpillars eat will grow back, the damage "looks" bad but does not in fact kill the trees! These trees are old, many are diseased and not in the most optimum of growing conditions but because of "looks" the City Bleeders will waste an awful lot of money (it will end up being more I would bet the farm). The RISKS do not outweigh any perceived benefits or the cost. Plain simple common sense and logic, not a strong suit Uptown.

[Raintree21]

For those who may have forgotten about the importance of leaves in relation to the health of trees:

No leaves = no photosynthesis. No photosynthesis = less energy. Less energy = weakened tree. Weakened tree = increased susceptibility to diseases, parasites, falling limbs, or entire trees falling over.

While it's unlikely that a single canker worm attack would kill a large/mature tree (although it is possible it could kill a smaller tree, like a dogwood), it does weaken the tree. This is especially true during times of drought, when a lack of water makes it more difficult for trees to releaf. It is possible for a tree to die as a result of canker worms if 1) the tree has been defoliated several times before, and 2) it is during a time of drought (like we are in, now).

Also, keep in mind that CO2 is removed from the air during photosynthesis, and Oxygen is released. Fewer trees conducting photosynthesis would most likely result in a decrease in air quality for Charlotte. So, obviously there's a lot more at stake here than just bad-looking trees. And I would say the RISKS and benefits of spraying 48B do outweigh the costs.

[monsoon]

A deforestation of Charlotte causing us to lose our tree canopy would have widespread effects on the air quality of the region. ....

[I CARE]

A deforestation of Charlotte causing us to lose our tree canopy would have widespread effects on the air quality of the region. Our air pollution would dramatically increase without all of the trees and leaves and we would lose federal highway funding.

[Spartan]

Interesting link to the Madison Park NA monsoon. That site is of particular interest to me since they quoted the same studies that I did several pages back, though they did not give credit to them.

so, would you allow your children, grandchildren, little Fluffy the pooch be out in the spray since it is not "required" or otherwise necessary to not be in it for safety? Would you be willing to be personally sprayed since you believe it to be so safe because they say so? Do you trust a for mega profit industry who has repeatedly been shown to lie, cheat and steal? Do you trust the City Council of Charlotte to know better and/or truly care?

[monsoon]

....

I recommend my technique to everyone. Research it for yourself and draw your own conclusions. Heck, you might still oppose the spray after you do, but at least you will have done so based on a real thought process and not propaganda.

[I CARE]

I have found much more information, studies, posts by people who have experienced problems (more often than not these real cases are ignored, discredited, not known etc...). Not wanting to have another battle of the links I have not added them. How long did it take to admit other chemicals were actually harmful?! And all the while claiming they were perfectly safe, we did studies, we say so.

Again, who will stand in it, allow their children, grandchildren, grandparents and little Fluffy the pooch to stand out and be directly sprayed? The City says it is perfectly safe and not required to stay indoors.. while other times saying well, yeah, just go inside.

This has not been a well thought out answer to a perceived problem, I have also found respected scientific data saying the spray will not curtail the next larval population. It is a waste of money and resources and puts undo "risk" on those with health issues. Plain and simple.