SouthEnd Midrise Projects

[atlrvr]

Simpson property is in play. That is about all I can say. Look for great density and views if all works out.

Seems like 2inthePink has something to worry about...

This is a rendering of what is proposed for the Simpson Lighting property at Carson and South.

I think its Wunderbar as far as massing goes....best of all it hides Camden South End from South Blvd. Hopefully the execution of the exterior facades will not disappoint. I'm eager to see what Steve Harris comes up with after leaving the shackles of suburban thinking.

[Charlotte_native]

Seems like 2inthePink has something to worry about...

This is a rendering of what is proposed for the Simpson Lighting property at Carson and South.

I think its Wunderbar as far as massing goes....best of all it hides Camden South End from South Blvd. Hopefully the execution of the exterior facades will not disappoint. I'm eager to see what Steve Harris comes up with after leaving the shackles of suburban thinking.

Are there two towers or is that one in the background the Pink Building?

[atlrvr]

Should be 2.....there is to be an office, hotel and residential portion, so I believe they would have multiple towers.

Big Pink (The Arlington) is set back from South Blvd, with the 7-story parking/office building closer to the street, with the residential portion more than likely aligned behind the tower in the foreground in this rendering.

[Charlotte_native]

Wow. I knew something was coming but had not seen the renderings. This, Big Pink, Royal Court, the Apartments at Tremont and Camden, and Summit Grandview are certainly creating quite a mini-skyline in Southend.

[UrbanFuture]

Is there a website for any part of the Simpson Lighting property, i.e. architect, developer, sales? Where can I find more info on this project? It looks interesting

[tozmervo]

Very nice. Does this only go as far south as to include the Simpson property? The old white house next door has had a rezoning sign up for some time now - is it included?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Big Pink is taller than what is shown here, which may explain its absence from the view.

[atlrvr]

I lifted the rendering straight from Harris Development Group's website....

http://www.harrisdevelopmentgroup.com/prop...tails.cfm?id=78

Not a ton of info....the most interesting thing is that the rendering show ~15 stories and what I would estimate at 175' in height. Harris just got a Planning Dept. sponsered rezoning for the property, but it was TOD-M which has a height limit of 120'. I assume their purchase contract stipulates successful rezoning to TOD-M, and that they will have to finalize the purchase before rezoning again to allow for the proposed height shown in the renderings.....I'm sure there is a Plan B that makes this work at 120'.

Edit. This includes all property between Carson and Big Pink except the old Firehouse #2 (1212 South).

[orulz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like they will not be closing Palmer Street for this development. Looks like a 3-story low rise between Carson and Palmer, and the larger towers will be located south of Palmer. The three-story building would probably be either all retail (major tenant?!) or office on retail. I guess Palmer will probably serve as an alleyway for loading, parking access, and perhaps as a port cochere for the hotel.

Next it would be nice if someone would develop the sliver of land between Carson and Palmer west of the tracks, in front of Camden South End.

[UrbanFuture]

me = over excited about a building I haven't seen yet. Thanks.

[atlrvr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like they will not be closing Palmer Street for this development. Looks like a 3-story low rise between Carson and Palmer, and the larger towers will be located south of Palmer. The three-story building would probably be either all retail (major tenant?!) or office on retail. I guess Palmer will probably serve as an alleyway for loading, parking access, and perhaps as a port cochere for the hotel.

Next it would be nice if someone would develop the sliver of land between Carson and Palmer west of the tracks, in front of Camden South End.

Good eye....I was thinking that was a curb-cut for parking access, which irked me, but I think you're right...that is Palmer. That would be great if they didn't request Palmer to be abandoned, and instead had a smaller scale building on that very short block....and I agreet about that strip between Palmer and Carson up by Camden South End....every time I drive by, I envision townhouses fronting Carson, with vehicle access from Palmer.

The only other thing I would wish is that Carson could be aligned with Lexington, so they could make it a four-way intersection and get ride of the median. I heard that this was part of the original SCIP plans, but that extensive buried utilities at the NW corner made it nearly impossible....still hoping though.

[rockhilljames]

Woah. My post disappeared. That was weird.

Anyway, I'd hate to lose the Simpson's Lighting sign, rooftop signs are such a rarity in our fair city.

Anyone notice the green roofs? With that amount of glass, they could be going for LEED, although I realize it's more of a massing diagram than anything else.

[Andyc545]

Woah. My post disappeared. That was weird.

Anyway, I'd hate to lose the Simpson's Lighting sign, rooftop signs are such a rarity in our fair city.

Anyone notice the green roofs? With that amount of glass, they could be going for LEED, although I realize it's more of a massing diagram than anything else.

Yeah- I did see all of that green on the roof. Looks like they may go for some sort of LEED or at least be an example with the growing trend of going green. This project kind of came out at the weirdest time, when a lot of projects are haulting and the market it luke-warm. I really wasn't expecting anything of this magnitute. I really can't wait to see this South End skyline in a few years, it's going to compliment uptown tremendously.

[Charlotte_native]

Yeah- I did see all of that green on the roof. Looks like they may go for some sort of LEED or at least be an example with the growing trend of going green. This project kind of came out at the weirdest time, when a lot of projects are haulting and the market it luke-warm. I really wasn't expecting anything of this magnitute. I really can't wait to see this South End skyline in a few years, it's going to compliment uptown tremendously.

One of the reasons you are probably seeing this now (timing) when others are pulling back is the office and hotel component. This will fill a void for hotel space right outside of uptown (if you don't count the Ascot Inn!! ).

You are correct as well, they will be going for a LEED / green building.

[tozmervo]

Good eye....I was thinking that was a curb-cut for parking access, which irked me, but I think you're right...that is Palmer. That would be great if they didn't request Palmer to be abandoned, and instead had a smaller scale building on that very short block....and I agreet about that strip between Palmer and Carson up by Camden South End....every time I drive by, I envision townhouses fronting Carson, with vehicle access from Palmer.

The only other thing I would wish is that Carson could be aligned with Lexington, so they could make it a four-way intersection and get ride of the median. I heard that this was part of the original SCIP plans, but that extensive buried utilities at the NW corner made it nearly impossible....still hoping though.

Maybe you'll get your wish. They've been tearing up and replacing roadbed up and down Carson and at the Carson/South intersection for weeks now. I couldn't figure out what the heck they've been doing, but maybe they're moving utilities?

[2inthePink]

Wow! The 1200 South project really concerns me!!!!!!!

I will start my organizing immediately to object to the 2nd rezoning.

When everyone purchased here at the Arlington they expected the rezoning to

TODD-M eventually and expected the Simpson property to be developed to about 11 stories. I invested a sizable chunk in purchasing 2 unit's on the 16th floor (15th really as we have no 13th). I did this with the comfort that it was not reasonable to be rezoned to allow more than 11 stories. I think TODD-M is 110" not 120".

The main thing I purchased here was the view.

I will not go down without a major fight!

BTW" cut this down to 11 stories and I love it!

[cltcardfan]

Wow! The 1200 South project really concerns me!!!!!!!

I will start my organizing immediately to object to the 2nd rezoning.

When everyone purchased here at the Arlington they expected the rezoning to

TODD-M eventually and expected the Simpson property to be developed to about 11 stories. I invested a sizable chunk in purchasing 2 unit's on the 16th floor (15th really as we have no 13th). I did this with the comfort that it was not reasonable to be rezoned to allow more than 11 stories. I think TODD-M is 110" not 120".

The main thing I purchased here was the view.

I will not go down without a major fight!

BTW" cut this down to 11 stories and I love it!

Good luck with that. You didn't purchase a view at all. You bought and were conveyed the airspace within your 4 walls and an equal, undivided interest in the common area. The view just happened to be there at the time. Its your own fault for banking on a view next to a property that's not a cemetery. If the view argument is your only ammo against it, it'll be like showing up to a boxing match with pillows tied to your hands.

[2inthePink]

The view equates to Value.

This project would have a major effect on the value of my property and all others in the Arlington facing downtown.

[maratletter]

Good luck with that. You didn't purchase a view at all. You bought and were conveyed the airspace within your 4 walls and an equal, undivided interest in the common area. The view just happened to be there at the time. Its your own fault for banking on a view next to a property that's not a cemetery.

This is hereby nominated for the post of the year; perhaps the decade. The dichotomy between reality and "victimhood" has rarely been shown with such clarity.

[Miesian Corners]

The main thing I purchased here was the view.

And those that purchased on the north side of Factory South also purchased a view. Seven years later it turned pink.

[Appetite for Construction]

Switching gears, the Biz Journal has an article in this coming Monday's issue regarding high radon gas levels at Latta Pavilion. Anyone out there with a print subscription that could summarize what it says?

This can't be good news for 131 Main. Maybe that restaurant spot is cursed ...

[UrbanFuture]

My friends live there, they do have high levels of radon in the building, and several units had unsafe levels at the time of the testing. Latta is taking steps to remedy the situation, I'm not sure exactly what they are doing, but in new construction you can install a sub slab vent system and it'll take care of the naturally occuring gas (i.e. redirect it from entering the building)

I think 131 Main will be alright, the place is never empty.

[Appetite for Construction]

I think 131 Main will be alright, the place is never empty.

That's good to hear. I haven't been to this 131 Main location yet, but really like the one up in Huntersville.

[UrbanFuture]

The view equates to Value.

This project would have a major effect on the value of my property and all others in the Arlington facing downtown.

I've recently started to come to appreciate the beauty of the uniqueness of the Arlington. I also know the units are very nice on the inside. However, I'm kind of excited to see a LEED building block it out partially from the view south from downtown.

Also, in regards to legal ramifications, your argument sounds something along the lines of people believing they have the right to sue in urban settings when a new building pops up across the street. You just can't do it. Like someone else said "airspace with 4 walls and undivided share of common areas". Should all of the western units in 5th & Poplar go into uproar when the Vue is built? No, its a fact that you cannot control land you do not own, especially in urban settings. Your argument might fly in the burbs. Sadly, the Arlington (nor any other building) can garuantee or predict what might happen on land they do not own. The only way you might be able to stop an adjacent building's height would be to argue that your solar panels will be blocked out by the building's height, thus reducing the value of your building by adding to energy costs and reducing sustainability (which last time I checked, the Arlington did not have solar panels, and even if they re-clad the building in them, it wouldn't hold up unless they did it before the rezoning)

EDIT: Before I get flamed for not stating it, I know you can "control" land use through zoning. This assumes zoning changes go along with higher density and height as Charlotte continues to grow.

Edited February 22, 2008 by QCkid

[atlrvr]

The view equates to Value.

This project would have a major effect on the value of my property and all others in the Arlington facing downtown.

In NYC or Boston, you would have a good arguement. Local courts there recognize views as value. You would have the ability to sue the city to prevent a rezoning, or if the rezoning is approved, sue the developer or the city to reclaim lost value. That said, don't expect much in Charlotte.

In essence, it's the same as anyone protesting a rezoning for any other reason....just like people who passionately fought against a fire-station being built next to their houses off Providence Rd. a few years ago. The bought (hopefully) with the knowledge of what could be built next to them, so had the reasonable expectation that a fire-station could not be their neighbors. The arguement being that a fire-station would decrease their quality of life and decrease property values.

I will say, the comparison to Factory South isn't quite fair, because when they bought, they had the knowledge that the Park Elevator building site was zoned UMUD therefore could ultimately be any height. Depending on when 2inthePink purchased, the South End plan may well have been completed, indicating that the maximum allowable height for the Simpson parcel is 120'. I'm not a lawyer, but I would say this constitutes reasonable expectation, and he would have a case.....were it not in Charlotte.

The reality, this is going to become a huge issue in the future, as Charlotte develops a large inventory of skyscrapers. With no "natural" view, skyline views will continue to command premiums. As of now, planning does not have any regulations protecting views as many other more urban cities do. Perhaps its time it gets addressed.

As far as this particular building, if it does go to rezoning, I would request the developers to provide mock-ups of what the "views" would be from the Arlington. It might not be as bad as you think.

[Charlotte_native]

I have west and north views in my unit at 230 S. Tryon. As I write this my view of BofA stadium is disappearing due to Catalyst (it actually disappeared this week with the 14th floor). When 300 S. Tryon goes up a bit more of my views go and when Novare finishes the rest of their project on the Catalyst site, 1/3 of my mountain views go away. When they build at 222 Church even more goes. What do I get in return? A view of a park, a view of beautiful buildings (to me), and still slivers of views going northwest, west, and other patches here and there. I knew this was part of the deal when I bought here -- nothing stays the same forever -- if it did, my building wouldn't be here.

I sucks, for sure, but none of these buildings will have the same views for many years, that is just part of a growing urban core. No one should ever buy into anything assuming or hoping that they are 100% protected with their views. Nothing personal to anyone on here whatsoever, but any of us living here deal with this and, again, it just comes with the territory.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Charlotte_native