SouthEnd Midrise Projects

[go_vertical]

Alright gman430, I'm gonna keep liking these pics but my thumb is starting to get sore. 

[kermit]

Random fun stat of the day:

Current upper Southend (Morehead to Iverson) population density = 14,000 per sq mile (per Popstats current estimates)

Current central Paris Population density = 65,000 per square mile (I converted this from the stat I saw on the web of 25,000 per sq km -- I might have flubbed that conversion)

Therefore quadrupling the number of Southend apartments would get us close to Parisian densities (both areas have similar heights, although Paris does not require developers give away space for car storage)

[the Apartments Backlash thread made me think of this]

Edited February 10, 2020 by kermit

[j-man]

On 2/9/2020 at 9:52 AM, gman430 said:

Great pics. But idk, why couldn’t they just make this building an even rectangle instead of the number 2? It would have looked better and have an equal square amount of that block left. 

[KJHburg]

^^ the interior courtyard to right of the photo has the pool deck which has an uptown view. I am assuming the other courtyard to the left has some sort of amenities too.  By this design they can get more units as they have all to have exterior windows and most with balconies. 

[j-man]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

^^ the interior courtyard to right of the photo has the pool deck which has an uptown view. I am assuming the other courtyard to the left has some sort of amenities too.  By this design they can get more units as they have all to have exterior windows and most with balconies. 

I’m sure if this was shaped like the letter “C” with the entire courtyard open to Uptown Views, they could put the same amount of units, if not they could have gone up a floor. And yes they could still do one more floor with a wood frame (6) to have the exact same amount of units. 

[VTinCV]

3 hours ago, j-man said:

I’m sure if this was shaped like the letter “C” with the entire courtyard open to Uptown Views, they could put the same amount of units, if not they could have gone up a floor. And yes they could still do one more floor with a wood frame (6) to have the exact same amount of units. 

Can you do 6 with wood?  I thought it was just 5 floors of wood over 2 levels of podium (which is what they have here it looks like). 

[Guest]

On 2/8/2020 at 2:15 AM, Nick2 said:

Could you work your magic and add in uptown projects from this same perspective?

sure! I hope I saved it lol

[j-man]

5 hours ago, VTinCV said:

Can you do 6 with wood?  I thought it was just 5 floors of wood over 2 levels of podium (which is what they have here it looks like). 

I’ve always thought 6 was the max with wood. If not, then they still could have found a better way to lay this one out in my opinion 

[AP3]

5 hours ago, j-man said:

I’ve always thought 6 was the max with wood. If not, then they still could have found a better way to lay this one out in my opinion 

5 floors wood over 2 floors podium is code

[tozmervo]

If you want to get technical - and who doesn't - you can not build with combustible structure (ie, wood frame) above 70 ft from grade. Wood frame is also limited to 4 stories, so you can build the top four floors with wood frame and the bottom (how ever many stories you can make fit) with a concrete podium. 

[Madison Parkitect]

You can build 5-over-2 as long as you stay under general fire code height requirements, but that's the limit. And a shape like they have there, or an E-shape or another kind of shape that winds around two courtyards like that, is the most efficient way to get the most units while conforming to the FAR rules. Code will specify FAR limits and amount of open space required and this kind of shape is the best way to do it.

Apartments these days generally look the same because they're dictated by efficiency. A unit can only be about 30 feet long before it gets too dark inside (35 if you really stretch it), and 16 feet wide is pretty much the narrowest you can make them if you want a bedroom. So if you think 30-35 feet, then a 5-foot corridor, then another 30-35 feet, and you've got a 65-75 foot width. And then the code will specify how far you can go along each facade before needing to change materials or bump walls out. 

Of course if a developer doesn't care as much about maximizing profit there can be a lot more creativity.

[JacksonH]

2 hours ago, tozmervo said:

If you want to get technical - and who doesn't - you can not build with combustible structure (ie, wood frame) above 70 ft from grade. Wood frame is also limited to 4 stories, so you can build the top four floors with wood frame and the bottom (how ever many stories you can make fit) with a concrete podium. 

Hmm.  Who made this rule?  Can builders not build properly anymore? Come see the Hotel del Coronado in San Diego.  All wood structure.  The second largest wood structure in the U.S., it's seven stories tall and still standing after 132 years.

[tozmervo]

2 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

Hmm.  Who made this rule?  Can builders not build properly anymore? Come see the Hotel del Coronado in San Diego.  All wood structure.  The second largest wood structure in the U.S., it's seven stories tall and still standing after 132 years.

It's in the international building code (upon which the North Carolina building code is based).

There are a couple of issues. The first is that today's 2x4s* are smaller and less strong than 2x4s of yester-century. The second is that construction like Coronado has proven to be generally deadly. Coronado has always had plenty of cash to upgrade life safety systems, including sprinklers and proper exits. They're an exception to the rule. 

Modern building codes have virtually eliminated deaths in commercial fires compared to what used to be.

*For those not in the industry, this is not an exaggeration. The accepted size today is 1.5" x 3.5", it used to be closer to true 2x4.

[JacksonH]

25 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

It's in the international building code (upon which the North Carolina building code is based).

There are a couple of issues. The first is that today's 2x4s* are smaller and less strong than 2x4s of yester-century. The second is that construction like Coronado has proven to be generally deadly. Coronado has always had plenty of cash to upgrade life safety systems, including sprinklers and proper exits. They're an exception to the rule. 

Modern building codes have virtually eliminated deaths in commercial fires compared to what used to be.

*For those not in the industry, this is not an exaggeration. The accepted size today is 1.5" x 3.5", it used to be closer to true 2x4.

That's very informative.  Thanks!  And very interesting that "today's 2x4s* are smaller and less strong than 2x4s of yester-century."

[videtur quam contuor]

It was interesting to me to see the structure of my 1905 Dilworth house. The attic rafters were rough cut and FULL dimension 3 x 8 (or so). Minimal milling of surfaces so splinters galore. The main floor ceiling was 10'3.5" high, an odd measurement for my modern mind. An historian said that the wall studs ran from subfloor to attic ties and the height of ceiling would be after subtraction for all the flooring and ceiling materials. To make a 10 foot ceiling height would involve ordering special length inventory from the mill at extra cost or cutting each BY HAND SAW on site. Thus the height was what remained after all other work was complete. In that hot attic the resin from had oozed from the pine timbers and then dried to black bubbles long before my time. 

I had a carpenter replace a section of sill that had long ago termite damage but treated and no infestation. He and his two crew members worked on it for several hours. He rang my door bell and said they would take a lunch break and also go to the supply house. They had broken all their saw blades on the sill, which was nearly like stone.

Issues not encountered on contemporary homes. Nonetheless, or perhaps because of all that, I am glad it is someone else's to discover now.

Edited February 11, 2020 by tarhoosier

[Hushpuppy321]

Just now, JacksonH said:

That's very informative.  Thanks!  And very interesting that "today's 2x4s* are smaller and less strong than 2x4s of yester-century."

That’s very true.  Today’s building codes have greatly improved things towards safety even though current 2x4s are not as robust as yesteryears!  And for the final time, in the US or at least NC specifically - 5 Story wood framed structures are as high as that can currently be permitted. To get higher typically developers will build a reinforced Concrete Podium around 1 to 2 stories high and go with 5 stories wood framed on top.

[Norm2]

In some cities, such as Chicago, you can't build such huge mega block structures out of wood. Everything has to be brick or cinder block. They have had these rules in place since the Chicago Fire. These huge wood buildings can be death traps if they catch on fire

[j-man]

I was one floor off but thanks everyone. Maybe it’s just me but I think developers and/or architects should try and put other factors first instead of cost because so many apartments fall short for me dealing with the height requirements among other things. There are countless examples of poorly designed apartments in Charlotte. Some have parking taller than the units, parking exposed and poorly hidden or covered, and some are just shaped odd but I get it. It’s all a business. 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by j-man

[Madison Parkitect]

15 hours ago, j-man said:

I was one floor off but thanks everyone. Maybe it’s just me but I think developers and/or architects should try and put other factors first instead of cost because so many apartments fall short for me dealing with the height requirements among other things. There are countless examples of poorly designed apartments in Charlotte. Some have parking taller than the units, parking exposed and poorly hidden or covered, and some are just shaped odd but I get it. It’s all a business. 

 

As an architect who has spent years working on apartment buildings in the past, I can tell you we love it when a developer comes along who is more concerned with aesthetic creativity than cost. But that's pretty rare. Developers are generally in it to make money (which, whatever, fine, that's their reason for being in business) and the good ones know their costs and needed profit on a large apartment building down to the cent.

[j-man]

1 hour ago, Madison Parkitect said:

As an architect who has spent years working on apartment buildings in the past, I can tell you we love it when a developer comes along who is more concerned with aesthetic creativity than cost. But that's pretty rare. Developers are generally in it to make money (which, whatever, fine, that's their reason for being in business) and the good ones know their costs and needed profit on a large apartment building down to the cent.

I bet! I’ve always wanted to be an architect but I truly care about the design aspect moreso than the engineering. Lol and don’t get me wrong Charlotte has many great designed apartments but I feel like they are not in common areas of town like SouthEnd and Uptown. They are ok but I would never sit and want them to look as many of them do. I think with the shift of populations growing cities at record numbers, Design is put on the back burner which is sad because all US cities are starting to look the same with bland apartments. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by j-man

[Mgelbach]

This whole area is going to loo so different in a few years!

[go_vertical]

What's the possibility of any potential projects down this stretch of Tryon between Elder gallery and Tremont? I could see some slightly dense residential on the empty lots and businesses. 

[Guest]

What's the possibility of any potential projects down this stretch of Tryon between Elder gallery and Tremont? I could see some slightly dense residential on the empty lots and businesses. 

I still say everyone has a price when the millions start rollin in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cpink]

17 hours ago, Mgelbach said:

This whole area is going to loo so different in a few years!

Awesome shot... how cool would it be if they demolished all of the buildings in the lot to the right of dimensional place and made it into a much needed park? I can only wish! 

[11 HouseBZ]

2 hours ago, Cpink said:

Awesome shot... how cool would it be if they demolished all of the buildings in the lot to the right of dimensional place and made it into a much needed park? I can only wish! 

Isn't there a park being built 2 blocks further past Dimensional? Or did I get flipped-turned upside down?