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On 2/5/2021 at 3:43 AM, JeanClt said:

On the topic of Atlanta. It’s interesting to think that it’s Metro Area is over ~6 million but thinking about NC’s Piedmont Crescent (Charlotte-Greensboro-Raleigh) which is an area similar to Atlanta’s metro Area and has just about the same population. The only difference is that Atlanta is a radial versus the Piedmont Crescent being a curve. Though in terms of connection the curve would make more efficient transportation since the cities can be connected in a line versus radially which is much harder to serve wide swaths of area. I think NC rail has a good opportunity in terms of mass transit considering these cities could be more effectively connected to allow for shorter travel times could create an urban crescent that could rival a lot of other economic areas. Just a half baked thought I had at 3 am.

 

On 2/5/2021 at 8:38 AM, jthomas said:

I think you are absolutely right. In my fantasy world, NC builds a true high-speed line connecting Raleigh, Greensboro, and Charlotte that would have an end-to-end run time of 1:30-1:45. Hourly express service (with the potential to extend north to DC or south to Atlanta), plus hourly or better service to intermediate stops on the existing NCRR line. It would be a game changer for NC to create, as you say, effectively one 6M+ metro area rather than three 1.5-2M metros. Not only are the three metros in a pretty clean line (well, arc), but many of the key destinations within the regions are directly adjacent to the line (universities, hospitals, research parks, sports/entertainment destinations, CLT and RDU airports, etc.).

And I don't think this idea is as far-fetched as it seems on first glance. Travel demand will only continue to grow on the 40/85 corridor, and the only plausible alternatives are another round of mega-widening on the interstates, or perhaps a new freeway following the 49/64 route. I would think the costs of each option would not be that far off, plus rail could likely move more people (the goal of transportation, right?) without all of the negative externalities of massive freeways and auto-dependence. And while I think the project would be compelling enough for NC to do on its own if necessary, it would be a key piece of an Atlantic seaboard HSR line, and would likely be attractive to a rail-friendly federal government.

It's interesting but the Atlanta, GA "metro" geographic area is massive -- almost 10,000 square miles or twice the size of Connecticut.  The NC Crescent is a bit larger but not by much.  You are absolutely correct -- what we need is a transportation alternative that carries people -- business folk, students, tourists between our cities (and with spurs to some of the biggest tourism destinations in the country).  

We are competing with not just other countries but other states.  A high speed rail system with the state's remarkable diversity of cities, landscapes and climates would be impossible to beat at least in the eastern US.  

How did this conversation make it here?????

On 2/4/2021 at 3:48 PM, RANYC said:

Would you all say we're evolving toward being an urban improvement over what Atlanta has become (not saying Atlanta is bad, but are we growing in a way that leverages lessons learned)?

Absolutely.  Even Georgians will admit this.  Charlotte is setting an example for the US -- it hardly get any props though, which is partly a failing of North Carolina in general.  Unlike our neighbors we aren't bloviators.  A valley of humility between two mountains of conceit...  Charlotte rocks. 

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Former ATLien here. (Also, this is my first post on UP after lurking for more than a year).  I lived in Atlanta my entire life. I spent the past 3 years living in both Midtown and along the Beltl

ClearSky has new pics of SouthEnd. https://photos.clearskyimages.com/2019-05-1812-s-blvd-charlotte-nc-hli    

In reading social media comments, this is what people want: -transit friendly with ample parking  -walkable neighborhoods but no height, no density, and definitely no more apartments  -

Posted Images

On 2/5/2021 at 11:36 AM, kermit said:

:offtopic:

You guys have hit on my favorite plan for improving  NC's future prospects. Making the Charlotte-Greensboro (plus Winston)-Raleigh corridor into a single labor market using rail would make the urban crescent globally competitive for attracting talent and knowledge industries. It is also an opportunity to reduce carbon outputs and to create more sustainable cities.

The 2009 ARRA grant built the Charlotte-Greensboro tracks up to 110mph top speed specs (NCDOT has decided not to pay to maintain them at that speed level so 89mph is the best we get currently). This would make travel time between CLT-Gboro under an hour and Gboro-Raleigh less than 50 minutes (tracks east of Greensboro would still need substantial upgrades). These travel times would make daily commutes between Greensboro and the two endpoints totally doable (and a good bit shorter than many rail commuters accept in NYC, Boston, Chicago and DC)

In terms of Gross Metropolitan Product, a unified NC Crescent (all the metro areas between Charlotte and Raleigh) would produce $419 billion worth of stuff annually. This would rank us as the 12th largest metro economy, just behind Atlanta and just ahead of Miami. [Charlotte is currently the 21st largest metro economy ($178 billion per year)]

More importantly, yolking these metro's together with high-frequency passenger rail service would:

  • Improve economies in the in between areas (including Greensboro) thanks to some workers in Charlotte and the Triangle seeking out smaller town living along the rail
  • Lower the cost of living for many without increasing carbon outputs.
  • Allow for more interaction between the arts and design communities in the Triad with the R&D and manufacturing communities of Charlotte and Raleigh.
  • Create better connections between the Triangles R&D and Charlotte's finance
  • Connect Charlotte's new medical school with medical research clusters in Winston and the Triangle (Winston rail connector would need improvements)

Without some type of improvement like this, NC's cities are going to choke on traffic, be shunned by the global talent pool (most won't know we exist), and get weighted down by low-wage manufacturing jobs.

Charlotte to Raleigh is a bit too far for robust daily commute flows (even by 110mph rail) but daily commuting from Greensboro to either endpoint is totally feasible. It would look a great deal like the urban system in Switzerland (lots of rail commuting from Zurich (finance) to Basel (R&D) and Basel to Geneva (Service / Global hub). This commuting is done at sub-110mph speeds (Switzerland does not have HSR).  Our equivalent rail network is already half built, all we gotta do is make a few remaining improvements to make it to happen.

/rant/

 

image.png.0754afda4e8f9cc29fb4b4427fce133a.png

 

 

15 hours ago, Phillydog said:

You and me both -- this has been my vision for NC for the last 30 years.    

I'd add...one of the best things about NC is the diversity of landscapes and climates -- easily unmatched in Eastern North America.  But, our two tourism centers in the East and the West are too far for the average tourist to experience in a trip now.  Imagine high speed rail at RDU and CLT travelling the crescent and including Asheville and Wilmington.  Tourists from around the world could fly into CLT (or RDU) visit these cities or head directly to Wilmington or Asheville, rent a car, travel around and then get a train and be at the other end of the state in a few hours.  

I posted a response in the NC Intercity Rail thread so this one can get back on topic...

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2 hours ago, AP3 said:

Stumbled upon this approval in Accela.   This is a part of Marsh Properties' Sedgefield development (adjacent to the Waterman/HT).  This was the strip center that had Ann Dao market in it.

 

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I am hoping that more development like this will be built on the East side of South Blvd. 

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On 2/7/2021 at 7:08 PM, Phillydog said:

Absolutely.  Even Georgians will admit this.  Charlotte is setting an example for the US -- it hardly get any props though, which is partly a failing of North Carolina in general.  Unlike our neighbors we aren't bloviators.  A valley of humility between two mountains of conceit...  Charlotte rocks. 

Charlotte is cut from the same New South boosterism cloth as Atlanta, and it has paid off. Reputations and state mottos from the 18th century have become a bit outdated I'd say.

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Here here. Our state motto has always been the shiz. When the Colbert Report ran on Comedy Central, the back of the set read, "Esse videri quam." Sly little flip-flop. I always felt I was the only person that noticed. Yeah, Colbert is genius. 

Edited by DownEast
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On 2/5/2021 at 11:36 AM, kermit said:

:offtopic:

You guys have hit on my favorite plan for improving  NC's future prospects. Making the Charlotte-Greensboro (plus Winston)-Raleigh corridor into a single labor market using rail would make the urban crescent globally competitive for attracting talent and knowledge industries. It is also an opportunity to reduce carbon outputs and to create more sustainable cities.

The 2009 ARRA grant built the Charlotte-Greensboro tracks up to 110mph top speed specs (NCDOT has decided not to pay to maintain them at that speed level so 89mph is the best we get currently). This would make travel time between CLT-Gboro under an hour and Gboro-Raleigh less than 50 minutes (tracks east of Greensboro would still need substantial upgrades). These travel times would make daily commutes between Greensboro and the two endpoints totally doable (and a good bit shorter than many rail commuters accept in NYC, Boston, Chicago and DC)

In terms of Gross Metropolitan Product, a unified NC Crescent (all the metro areas between Charlotte and Raleigh) would produce $419 billion worth of stuff annually. This would rank us as the 12th largest metro economy, just behind Atlanta and just ahead of Miami. [Charlotte is currently the 21st largest metro economy ($178 billion per year)]

More importantly, yolking these metro's together with high-frequency passenger rail service would:

  • Improve economies in the in between areas (including Greensboro) thanks to some workers in Charlotte and the Triangle seeking out smaller town living along the rail
  • Lower the cost of living for many without increasing carbon outputs.
  • Allow for more interaction between the arts and design communities in the Triad with the R&D and manufacturing communities of Charlotte and Raleigh.
  • Create better connections between the Triangles R&D and Charlotte's finance
  • Connect Charlotte's new medical school with medical research clusters in Winston and the Triangle (Winston rail connector would need improvements)

Without some type of improvement like this, NC's cities are going to choke on traffic, be shunned by the global talent pool (most won't know we exist), and get weighted down by low-wage manufacturing jobs.

Charlotte to Raleigh is a bit too far for robust daily commute flows (even by 110mph rail) but daily commuting from Greensboro to either endpoint is totally feasible. It would look a great deal like the urban system in Switzerland (lots of rail commuting from Zurich (finance) to Basel (R&D) and Basel to Geneva (Service / Global hub). This commuting is done at sub-110mph speeds (Switzerland does not have HSR).  Our equivalent rail network is already half built, all we gotta do is make a few remaining improvements to make it to happen.

/rant/

 

image.png.0754afda4e8f9cc29fb4b4427fce133a.png

 

I'm really sorry for continuing this off topic discussion but it's something I love to think about. 

The entire Piedmont region from Charlotte, to the triad, to the triangle, even down to Fayetteville is growing together. They're expanding a lot of the more rural areas' infrastructure that have prime real estate to have good development among the more dense population centers. Widening roads, increasing rural public transit for moderately populated areas, adding bypasses. 

The new high speed rail will be great for the region and the improvements to the road infrastructure will help these communities as well as having THREE growing international airports as well as other growing regional hubs. 

I'm excited for the future of central NC. 

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On 3/4/2021 at 8:25 PM, KJHburg said:

 

IMG_3263.JPG

And this is why I hate gentrification! This neighborhood like all others have so much charm and character and people just move in and build these bland houses just for a quick buck that don’t fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. Among all of the other issues dealing with gentrification. It’s either these extremely modern homes or the same ole cookie cutter cheap material made homes. Ugh

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1 hour ago, carolinaboy said:

Will be in Charlotte in about a month visiting UNC-Charlotte with my daughter. Price's Chicken is on my "To Visit" list.

I go to UNC Charlotte, feel free to send a pm if you have any questions about anything.

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3 hours ago, j-man said:
On 3/4/2021 at 8:25 PM, KJHburg said:

 

IMG_3263.JPG

And this is why I hate gentrification! This neighborhood like all others have so much charm and character and people just move in and build these bland houses just for a quick buck that don’t fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. Among all of the other issues dealing with gentrification. It’s either these extremely modern homes or the same ole cookie cutter cheap material made homes. Ugh

I have no problem with this house.  It's  not winning any architecture awards but I think homes can be representative of the contemporary even in the context of a mature neighborhood. I mean the home to the right is likely 1900-1920's and at that time it wasn't required to consider the aesthetic of 100 years prior when it was built. I say all this assuming that a historically significant and or contributing structure was not removed to make way for this house. 

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