SouthEnd Midrise Projects

[carolinagarnet]

South End is starting to remind me increasingly of the Rosslyn-Courthouse-Clarendon corridor in Arlington, VA, the mid-urban extension of DC into Virginia. I can't wait until these apartment complexes open and the density starts necessitating more retail.

[ah59396]

^ Monstrous good? Monstrous bad? I'm assuming you mean good...

As for those asking about an elevated pedestrian crossing, I just can't see that making sense. Much more expensive, less enticing to cross as it would probably require a series of ramps on either side, and there are plenty of at-grade crossings nearby so its not like its a special need here.

Haha, I should clarify. I meant monstrous good!

[kermit]

Scuttlebutt for the Iverson / South Publix:

Between 600-700 residential units

Grocery anchored retail (which I interpreted as meaning there will be multiple storefronts)

Structured parking

In negotiations for an LRT ped crossing. Negiotiations are focused on at-grade vs. bridge construction

[HopHead]

^600-700 residential units? If that is in fact the case, it's astounding how much activity there is in SouthEnd right now. We're talking thousands of new residents in the next few years with everything that's going on.

[Guest]

600-700 units!!! I do believe this will be the last apartment announcement in south end for a while! Can someone give me an idea of the size of the parcel. Does it stretch from autobell all the way to atherton mill? That just seems like a massive amount of units, it'd have to be 20 floors and take up the whole area

Edited October 1, 2012 by Guest

[kermit]

yup, my source did say between 600-700 units. It is third-hand (but usually well informed) information however.

EDIT: Gezzz, that would be twice as big as the Ashton or Circle..... One quarter larger than Catalyst .......

I am sure that is the number I heard but now I have begun to doubt my source.

Edited October 1, 2012 by kermit

[orulz]

That may be a lot of units coming into a somewhat crowded market, but with a grocery store right downstairs they will certainly have the ability to charge higher rent or at least pull tenants from other nearby complexes. The convenience of being able to ride the elevator to go grocery shopping cannot be overstated. They should max out the number of units that zoning will allow.

[Prodev]

The site is 8ac, so taking the retail out of the mix, they could get nearly 800 units on the site without going above stick product. Factoring the grocer in, 600-700 is probably about right. That may be their plan, but it may be done overtwo phases, especially considering they will be competing with two of their own properties.

[Dub_Ag]

The site is a development integration between the two parties, but the sites are separate and are being developed as such, therefore leaving approx. 4 acres for each party. That being said, there's only enough room for half that many apartments and no units above the retail.

[southslider]

As for those asking about an elevated pedestrian crossing, I just can't see that making sense. Much more expensive, less enticing to cross as it would probably require a series of ramps on either side, and there are plenty of at-grade crossings nearby so its not like its a special need here.

All of the other crossings are at streets or stations. A pedestrian-only crossing here raises legitimate safety concerns. CATS runs their trains faster south of Tremont than they do through South End and Uptown. The new Poindexter crossing is on the approach to the New Bern station. Iverson Way is roughly halfway between the New Bern and East/West stations, where trains are traveling near top speeds.

Edited October 1, 2012 by southslider

[Prodev]

The site is a development integration between the two parties, but the sites are separate and are being developed as such, therefore leaving approx. 4 acres for each party. That being said, there's only enough room for half that many apartments and no units above the retail.

It's interesting b/c the Camden site is the one at the signal and although the Publix site will be connected with Atherton Mill, you'd think Publix would want the signalized access. I'm guessing they've agreed to cross access. It'll also be interesting to see how the retail site approaches the approvals. If they are going at it alone (which they probably aren't), the TOD zoning is very prohibitive towards straight retail uses, especially with boxes. Even if they are going for approvals together with the apartments, the zoning only allows for single user footprints of up to 30k Sq.Ft, and 36k if additional standards are met. Publix has a 28k prototype, but I'd be surprised if they went with that right out of the gate in a new market, even if it is an urban area.

[kermit]

600-700 units!!! I do believe this will be the last apartment announcement in south end for a while!

I get that feeling too (goodbye Centro Studios...). Athough the observer reports on the new Carolina's real data. It appears that 2,500 units were absorbed in the market over the 6 months preceeding August. Vacancy is below 6% market wide.

http://cltdevelopmen...-continues.html

I took a rough tabulation of announced apartments (plus a few unannounced like the Publix project) from the CC dev map. I ended up with a bit less than 5,000 units promised between Fountains New Bern and Mercury NoDa (including the Midtown projects). At the current pace those units could be absorbed within a year (yes, I am foolishly ignoring new supply outside of the inner ring).

EDIT: the article also mentions that 11,217 units have been proposed -- yikes! A two year supply at the current bubbly level of consumption.

Edited October 1, 2012 by kermit

[southslider]

As long as there is quick absorption and/or low vacancy, there is no over-supply problem. The inner-ring benefitted from pent-up demand (due to too little supply) initially. But now, there is sustained demand, thanks to changing market demographics (steady flow of Echo-Boomers and Mobile-Yuppies) and changing market preferences (price premium for walkable urbanism).

[tozmervo]

It's not like there is a vast supply of housing in Center City that folks can buy into right now. Unless that changes (and, you know, people can buy), I don't see this apartment boom crashing anytime soon. Especially with the really outrageous rental prices that are being commanded.

Back in July I needed to move ASAP, and I had a really miserable time finding some place I could afford in Center City, even getting really creative. (The friend network provideth, though)

[sleightofhand]

I'm not sure all of these apartments are a good thing. I'm in residential real estate and the crazy rental market has pushed some renters to become buyers once they experienced alot of frustration trying to find something and figured out their mortgage would be less expensive than renting. If all of a sudden the rental market is infused with thousands of rental options I'm assuming this obviously drives the rental prices down significantly allowing renters to remain renters.

I'm excited about the development but I'm hoping most of these apartments that are proposed never get built.

[kermit]

Environmental work (drilling) was underway at the Faison project (Summit and Church) today.

Site work is full speed ahead at Park and Kingston.

[Urbanity]

I'm not sure all of these apartments are a good thing. I'm in residential real estate and the crazy rental market has pushed some renters to become buyers once they experienced alot of frustration trying to find something and figured out their mortgage would be less expensive than renting. If all of a sudden the rental market is infused with thousands of rental options I'm assuming this obviously drives the rental prices down significantly allowing renters to remain renters.

I'm excited about the development but I'm hoping most of these apartments that are proposed never get built.

From a selfish standpoint I'm excited by exactly that potential. I think Charlotte's rental market (particularly South End) is overpriced.

[carolinagarnet]

Are there any apartments planned or already built that are easily convertible into condos like Catalyst? That might provide some flexibility in the market if buying rebounds.

[kermit]

Are there any apartments planned or already built that are easily convertible into condos like Catalyst? That might provide some flexibility in the market if buying rebounds.

Ashton and (I suspect) the planned ballpark highrise.

[SouthEndCLT811]

Environmental work (drilling) was underway at the Faison project (Summit and Church) today.

Site work is full speed ahead at Park and Kingston.

What is it that is going on at Summit and Church again? I remember about 18 months ago there were sites for a townhome development they were hoping to build in that lot but now I cannot find it. It was going to be done by the same people who finished the townhomes next to the Charlotte Trolley Museum.

[nonillogical]

I hope we'll start to see more and more thoughtful proposals and infill projects for the area in the future with so many of the large lots gone now. I worry that with most of these recently-started projects being basically superblocks, value engineered like crazy and stripped of retail and other uses, that Southend may become a bit monotonous in the long term. In a couple of years when we have thousands of new residents and demand for more urban retail is undeniable, the available spaces to work with are going to be quite scattered and we may not have nearly as much variety as there is currently potential for.

Everything thats going on is certainly an improvement in the short term, but I feel like we're about to cross a threshold of having too much of the same.

Edited October 2, 2012 by nonillogical

[kermit]

What is it that is going on at Summit and Church again? I remember about 18 months ago there were sites for a townhome development they were hoping to build in that lot but now I cannot find it. It was going to be done by the same people who finished the townhomes next to the Charlotte Trolley Museum.

Here is the CBJ article on the project: http://www.bizjourna...s.html?page=all

Faison is planning “podium-style” developments of five stories of apartments over two stories of parking, similar to the design Branch used at his 1225 South Church Street project with Boulevard.

They do have financing in place according to article.

Edited October 2, 2012 by kermit

[dubone]

I'm still wrapping my head around the idea that SouthEnd finally might get a grocery store, but it would be going down so far on South and not near a transit station. I guess I figured it would go up near Bland or Carson. It is still very good news, and maybe will be more supportive remaking the cluster of chain retail between McDonald Ave and Elmhurst on South (Broadway Shoes, Lowes, Publix, all the fast foods).

I am very glad to see the apartment projects come up, because they at least get built, instead of deal with years of presales just to watch nothing happen and land that ought to be developed and lived in stay empty. I agree with nonillogical, though, that all the value engineering and zoning/financing issues, are keeping street retail and integrated uses out of this round of development, which is going to be a problem in the long run. It isn't like it is necessary that ALL projects get all urban design ideals, but the fact that virtually none of them are is a problem. I'm sure the city will rubber stamp and TOD zoning changes to let Publix build what they want. But at least from the sound of it, it is fairly urban in nature already as planned, so it meets the spirit of zone. And given that it is just outside of the half-mile station area radius, it may be reasonable anyway to adjust it a little given that the grocery store will help spur and support the denser residential projects that is helping remake the area anyway.

[tozmervo]

The South End blog has some photos of the developments around New Bern

http://southendclt.com/2012/10/18/south-end-is-growing/

[atlrvr]

Two web-cams of construction projects.

Fountains at South End (New Bern)

http://www.eyetrax.net/sitecameralatestimage/?id=189&sz=3

330 W Tremont

http://www.eyetrax.net/sitecameralatestimage/?id=326&sz=3

The W Tremont site is huge. I guess they are doing the entire podium/parking deck now, and the first phase of the the wood-framed apartments, and then building the second phase also on top of this deck.