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SouthEnd Midrise Projects


atlrvr

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No one should ever have assumed this tall building would stand alone for long. No one should have ever assumed this major thoroughfare with light-rail on one side would remain undeveloped or under developed. One should not assume that their property values will drop as a result either -- that is speculative. It also ignores that fact that units in The Arlington are still for sale that have never been sold since the building was completed a couple of years ago (they just don't have all of them on the market so no one knows how many have never sold). This place has been frought with problems from the beginning and being part of a more cohesive 'whole' just might help rather than hurt.

Will you lose your view? Sure, happens to people all over the city all the time. Is it guaranteed to hurt overall values? Nope, not at all. Will you personally dislike the area more? It seems so, will many many others probably like it more (patrons, those that now have a view, others in the area), maybe so. You live in a big city, this is part of it.

If you want or need grass an open areas why are you living next to the urban core? You could buy a house in the country or even near an urban park.

Expect more to block the views eventually as well. The Time-Warner site, Overstock Market site, really everything that is 1 or 2 stories tall between you and 277...

None of this is intended to be aimed personally, either. Any of us that live in the urban part of town, or elsewhere for that matter, can expect changes and often changes we'd rather not have happen. I'll lose my view of the mountains in the next couple of years, I hate that it will happen, but it will.

Edited by Charlotte_native
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To defend Nibbletodell a little bit, I don't think he expected you to be the least urban minded city dweller out there. I mean obviously you aren't, you live downtown, right? Anyways, It seems like your whole purpose since you joined this site was to brag about the fact that you went out and bought two condos on the 16th floor of arlington and knocked down the wall so you could have one of the largest condos in the area. Being an urbanite isn't about vanity, or having a lot of space, thats what being a suburbanite, and if you want your greenspace back move to the burbs. Since you seem to have this elitist attitude all I have to say is what comes around goes around.

Edited by 83alphaunder
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Please avoid sarcasm and arguing directly with someone else. .

Most people posting on here have a philosophical point of view behind their posts here, while others have personal situations behind their posts here. Both can coexist, but we have to stay above board.

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Sorry about the sarcasm.

Please just don't tell me I should be delighted with this project.

My point was that what this project brings to the area is not very attractive to the curent residents.

The point about the green areas was not wanting all concrete. I went to the meeting last night and

I believe they are looking for 15' from the tracks and 230" straight up sheer wall.

Anybody who uses this area care to comment on what that would be like?

The point about all the parcels near here being developed is good. All the projects except this one are less than 120' even though many are zoned for uptown. Why this site? None of the others have potential to do harm to others property values. Only this one.

Never wanted to brag about anything only was defending the building against criticism. I love it here.

The point about units not selling acutally proves my position. This is the FACTS: all but one unit sold out quickly that were above 120' and had a city view. The only units not selling are facing south. That show what the view is worth. Sorry I come across so mad but put your selves in me and wife's shoe's. We stand to loose in my opinion serious value if this goes through as currently planned. But in the end we stand to loose a good bit of our life saving.

I went to the meeting last night and hopefully they will take some of the Arlington's concerns and move things around a bit.

As of now we are completely 100% blocked in the direction of downtown.

I will wait and see.

What made us think that it could not be built here?

The Charlotte Mecklenburg Zoning Board publicly stating that after the Arlington was built they were not going to rezone anything outside the inner-belt as uptown. Also the South End Plan and the TOD plan. This is still the South End, the north end of it but still in the South End District. This was not in the plan. This is why almost all Realtors showing the building said that site would not be built to over 120'.

And this is why we expected a dense 120' high development to be done on that property. I thought that all the public planning would be acutally used.

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Still seems to me that you're being kind of selfish. Living in a high-rise in SouthEnd is OK for you, but you don't want anyone else to do it if it impedes on your view. I'm sure there are plenty of people that bought in Factory South that now only have the lovely view of reflective pink glass in their homes. This didn't seem to sway you from buying at the Arlington.

You have a point about the zoning statements, but anyone that's been alive for any length of time realizes that rezonings happen all the time. South End is too urban and too close to downtown to stifle this type of development. I think the density and mix are really a plus for South End, although I have some concerns about how the project will address the street.

Overall, I respect your opinion, but I think it's wrong.

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100 years from now, do you honestly want the Arlington to still be the only highrise in South End? by that time uptown will be full, and where else will we build high rises? The next place is Southend. So even if they dont build another highrise in Southend until uptown is full, maybe in the next 20 years.....it will still eventually happen. Cities change over time.....what is promised now may not still be a promised in 10 or 20 or 30 years. Plus.....don't you think a real estate agent will tell you that your view will NEVER be obstructed, so that you can buy the condo and they can get your $? They will tell you anything to get your $. Period.

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Hmmmm....sounds like if a Realtor stated it as fact, they could be responsible for damages.....they really shouldn't say anything other than what the current zoning/plans are, and stating speculations as facts is a big "no no".

I'm divided on the issue....as I've stated previously, this is really a test case for Charlotte for what defines a view premium, and how that could be affected....that said, cities aren't static.

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First, please, please, don't confuse the owners at The Arlington with the developer.

I know allot of people are not happy with how this building came about. Please don't

punish the current owners for problems they had nothing to do with.

The point about the real estate agents was just to show that the plans were common knowledge among the

public and within the real estate community. I did not believe anyone, I researched and read it for myself.

But, usually when rezoning is done, they (zoning and city council) are supposed to consider the impact to surrounding properties.

To me its just too much. I belive the impact on values of the proposed changes are in the millions total.

You can do this almost any where in the South End and not have 10 percent of the impact you will have on this one single property.

They are not just asking for a small variance, they are talking about a 100% increase in height.

This will not slightly obstruct, it will completely block 100% of our views of up town and to the East. Be aware Harris says "the renderings on their site

are not accurate." They showed us a site layout and gave us the proposed height of each building. If you go by this, you can

fully recognize the impact. This should be posted soon on the zoning site.

If its so inevitable, why are the properties that are zoned uptown only getting around 10 to 12 stories at best?

See proposals for uptown cabaret site, Overstock market and others in the area.

Why here, where its not zoned? We have not run out of Uptown zoning and not even close.

The 3 publicly stated and published plans led allot of people to invest allot of money and now a short time later they propose

not to just change the plan but, do a 180 turn on the plan. This is OK by me, if large numbers of people are not significantly hurt.

I also think that the current proposal is not god for the neighborhood as a whole in the way it relates to the street and rail line.

I was not real crazy about the how close they proposed the apartment tower to the tracks. The plans call for a 230' tall apartment

building along the tracks. The layout had the BACK of the building even with the front of The Arlington.

Has any one on this thread walked this area and envisioned the proposed impact?

The layout I saw included moving the sidewalk CLOSER to the tracks with the building starting some 15' away about the same distance as the apartments on the other side. Too close.

I was under the impression the the light rail walk ways were supposed make a kind of vertical park connection from downtown to scalybark station. The proposal, as is, will give it the felling of a back alleyway. Not very inviting to me.

After saying all this, the architects at LS3p seemed to be interested in our issues, the representatives of Harris Development, not so much.

They say they will take our feedback and try to work it into the plan. I hope so. Most here are willing to compromise by losing some views just not all.

I do think this project could be great for everyone if done right. We need to see some compromise from Harris. I'm still hopeful this will come.

But I am also a realest.

I really have no interest in 100 years from now. My wife and I are working hard, so in 10 or so years we can down size to considerabley smaller unit here at The Arlington. We look forward to our retirement here and enjoying the urban life. Should be out of here and off the earth in 30 or so years. Not really concerned about values rebounding in 100 years. I am worried my I will loose all the money we put in here and have to leave and put off retirement permanently. I am a little disapointed in all the support for the devloper and not much for The Arlington Homowners.

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altrvr - Thanks for considering both sides and the greater issues at hand.

I really don't think that the views are truly the issue here as much the pure loss in value.

Its just the loss views in this case would be the cause of the huge loss of value.

Once again, if it were not for the 3 publicly published polices we would not

have much of basis here. Not one, but 3.

Can you just completely ignore them?

If you do, why are we spending money on them and what is their purpose?

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Also abut the sidewalks, there is 100 times the foot traffic using the sidewalk at the Light Rail side than the street side.

I would think that needs some consideration as well.

But other corridor developments have placed their greatest massing along the LRT and its adjoining multi-use paths, not South Boulevard its sidewalks. And ironically, the best example of this is the Arlington.

In a city without mountain or waterfront views, city views are certainly a prized asset. But it in rapidly growing city, buyers should beware of change. When I personally bought a house with a great view, I asked myself if it was still a good buy if it ever lost the view, knowing Charlotte.

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Southsider

We all did think about loosing the views before purchasing.

Acording to the sources published by the city there was not much

chance of this happening next door at Simpsons. All places that were curenty zoned to

uptown were carfully taken into consideration. All could potentlly inhibit our view.

Very acceptable. Most would problalby make it better.

None except for Simpsons and only in a wost case senerio, could it be complely blocked.

But the city had published plans for the area that said they did not want that to happen.

120" would be all that was allowed.

Well they are proposing not only to go against the 3 plans but in such a large scale

way that I could not really imagane just 2 or 3 years ago. Change happens, its rarly

100% change and then only when it does not hurt others.

Please try to look at our uniqe perspecive.

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I think you have a case for a lawsuit against the city if it is approved.....like I've mentioned before, its never been an issue in Charlotte, but it will become one, and really only a lawsuit can bring clarity.

This happens all the time in Boston and NYC....the way it usually works is the developer throws a ton of cash at affected residents of existing buildings, they sign papers promising not to sue anyone, and the city agrees to let the process go forward. There are experts that can testify to values of views and sunlight (shadowing is an even bigger issue up here)....

Again, this is really the test case where a project could potentially reduce property values, and I agree with 2inthePink...they certainly will take some hit, though I doubt you'll be upside down in a mortgage unless your overleveraged as it is. The concept of view corridors and values attached to those corridors should be recognized here, and it will take a lawsuit to make it happen.

Really though, I've been preaching about form-based zoning for years now, and this would be an example of where it is needed.

In theory, this would prevent developers from over-paying for property based on the speculation that they can upzone (I AM NOT IMPLYING THAT WAS THE CASE HERE)

Edit. Raintree, I think his argument is that people on the bottom 10 floors should have had a reasonable expecatation of having their views blocked because the area plan specifically recommended the adjancent building to have a height up to 120'. The poster paid a premium to live high enough where the reaosonable expectation is that his view would not be in jeopardy.

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Southsider

We all did think about loosing the views before purchasing.

Acording to the sources published by the city there was not much

chance of this happening next door at Simpsons. All places that were curenty zoned to

uptown were carfully taken into consideration. All could potentlly inhibit our view.

Very acceptable. Most would problalby make it better.

None except for Simpsons and only in a wost case senerio, could it be complely blocked.

But the city had published plans for the area that said they did not want that to happen.

120" would be all that was allowed.

Well they are proposing not only to go against the 3 plans but in such a large scale

way that I could not really imagane just 2 or 3 years ago. Change happens, its rarly

100% change and then only when it does not hurt others.

Please try to look at our uniqe perspecive.

When my house was purchased a vacant lot behind us was supposedly unbuildable. A Mansion went up, totally out of place, breaking zoning restrictions. Nagging the zoning board about it didnt stop them from approving it. Life sucks, now my backyard is the movietheater and gunroom of a 10,000sqft house on a 1/4 of an acre.

Zoning restrictions rarely mean squat in charlotte. Sorry, I understand your prospective, and it sucks, but I really doubt youll be able to do anything.

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Really though, I've been preaching about form-based zoning for years now, and this would be an example of where it is needed.

Another building can't have similar forms as the Arlington? Or only this building gets to be different for all of South End?

Surely, when Grandview was constructed, it ended up changing Arlington's, albeit to a lesser extent. Besides, if Trump is ever built, none of these sites along LYNX in South end will have much view left.

Edited by southslider
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Speaking of Grandview, just wait until all hell breaks loose on that project's grand views being taken. The city itself is selling the parcel of land that used to be the off ramp from Belk on to South Blvd, and it has the potential to substantially block Grandview's views if the buyer chooses to build tall enough.

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Good news. I have been contacted by Land Design, the firm working on the layout. We have set up a meeting for them, the architects, and Harris to come and look at what the effect would be here at the Arlington. I see this as a great opportunity to work out a compromise. I hope a lawsuit will not be necessary. No one really wins in the end in that.

Altrvr

I thought we were not over extended in our mortgages. We put a good amount down and they had some decent appreciation. If they build what is on the plan currently, I could see a 20 to 35% decrease in values, maybe more. Could put us upside down or at the very least wipe out a good deal of our equity. Very scary for us.

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Speaking of Grandview, just wait until all hell breaks loose on that project's grand views being taken. The city itself is selling the parcel of land that used to be the off ramp from Belk on to South Blvd, and it has the potential to substantially block Grandview's views if the buyer chooses to build tall enough.
I've already heard the joke that Grandview's name should be changed to "Westinview".
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I disagree that no one wins in a lawsuit....again, I don't wish a harmful judgement against anyone, but rather resolution to an issue that will become more prevalent.....

Anyway....I wish you well in the meeting...that's the process working as it should be.

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